Is there such a thing as good and evil?

I think what you meant to say is that there are no known laws that govern good vs. evil but it doesn't mean they don't exist and the prove is that nobody is born a killer. People grow up in good families and turn out to be evil or killers and people can grow up in bad families and turn out to be good. When a person does something that's good it's usually looked at as a positive thing. When a person does something that's bad it's a negative thing. Positive and negative energy exists everywhere. All I'm asking is it possible that this energy can effect thought and actions and a possible explanation of God and the Devil.

reply to post by yahn goodey



So you are saying that man does not have a choice if he is good or evil? The laws of the universe make you what you are?

I don't have a choice if I am affected by gravity. But I do believe, that I have a choice to be good or evil.

Originally posted by Seiju

Yes, our theories on gravity are flawed because we dont have the full picture. We dont even know what gravity is besides just a name. Where does it come from? Its hard to be right when you only explain something halfway.

Second, people keep putting forth the "Golden Rule" but it is flawed. What if a guy comes up to me and begs me to blow his brains out. He doesnt tell you the reason why he wants you to he is just begging you. If you applied the gold rule would it be wrong? Would you want to kill yourself? Well, i guess this man just has to find someone else to kill him.

Well first off there is gravity my friend it's not just a word it's a scientific principle; look it up. Telling me I'm only going half into a subject when you are only stating ideas and not persenting any facts. Gravity is a universal principle and governs many if not all of our universal brothers including the nearest our sun. The earth has different gravity from the moon stating that gravity does change from body to body.

Also your Golden Rule is more of a religous term then anything else, although at base it's all about moral values. I'm not religious but I do believe full heartingly in KARMA. The example you stated is simply bias toward your opinion, no man with moral value would kill another man even if pleaded to do so. A better example would have been if your wife is raped and murdered by a man and then you kill him are you not evil? The answer to this is simple going along the lines of Karma and the "Golden Rule" you so chose to bring up. After you kill somebody, assuming its in cold blood (Murder, DUI, Payment), your lifes worth has become zero on the universal Karma plane. Allowing vengance to those who have the right, assuming again that a "universal father" is present and may look the other way.

So in short get more facts, get less opinions, and relize that since you say a bunch of words and ideas are "made up"; you may want to create your own languauge since the whole English language and every other langauge are made up (That's probably the most important thing in the difference between humans and other mammals, well other then free thought which I wish some people didn't have).

reply to post by dummskot


it would break the thread other than to suggest that the 10 commandments say what the difference is between good and evil------no 1 has a gun to our heads to force us to be good-----but if you want to live forever----the smart thing would be to volunteer to do good.

Originally posted by Elijio
Why is it that whenever people are debating this they use such tame examples?
What if your mother got gang-raped in each orifice by a a group of thugs?
or what if you child was shot in the head by a stranger for no reason at all. Your child was sitting there, he had a shotgun, might as well shoot it to see what would happen. Such things do happen you know. Do you guys live in a bubble or something?

Because it is repulsive to our sensibilities, proving we really "do" think there is evil in this world.

Also if you want to examine it a little further, using such a horrific example would ruin the point they are trying to make,,, that evil does "not" exist .



[edit on 053131p://bThursday2007 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Seiju

Second, people keep putting forth the "Golden Rule" but it is flawed. What if a guy comes up to me and begs me to blow his brains out. He doesnt tell you the reason why he wants you to he is just begging you. If you applied the gold rule would it be wrong? Would you want to kill yourself? Well, i guess this man just has to find someone else to kill him.

Dude, did you really say this?
Bad choice of words don't you think?

If you still think the perpetrator has every right to do as he wishes by murdering his victims, then I suppose you think Hitler had every right to do what he did.

So based on your logic, poor Hitler was only misunderstood and NOT at all evil.


Please explain.

Originally posted by Alxandro
Yes, good and evil are aka love and hate.

Think of it as the scale between the these two extremes with many levels in between.

We all fall within one of these levels when it comes to how we treat our fellow man.

Love and Hate are the same thing.... obsession. In both instances the subject is obsessed with an object they either love or hate. And Love or Hate can easily transmute into one or the other. They are essentially two sides of the same coin. The opposite of love or hate is indifference.

-Euclid

[edit on 20-12-2007 by euclid]

I hate to sound metaphysical but in this instance I refer to Shakespeare:

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". - (Hamlet - Act II, Scene II).

He said it best.

-Euclid

Ok, here's a monkey wrench. I believe in God..... but probably not they way most christians believe in it.

They way I see it is God doesn't directly interfere with the day-to-day operations of our lives. But WE each and everyone of us is a conduit that does what God wants us to do. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not because God is like a mechanism of the multiverse; like gravity. It/God surrounds us and permeates us. We live in it.

So when someone kills some one they are doing the work of God.... that is what is meant by the christian idea that "all things work to the glory of God". When someone dies they are meant to die; whether it be an accident, muder, or whatever.

Therefore "Evil", as some people have alluded to in this thread, is nothing more than a mechanism of the multiverse to fulfill the greater plan of God for all mankind. It's a tool created by God and used by man to fulfill Gods Will.

In that sense it could be said that Evil exists and is a precursor to the establishment/fulfillment of Good (i.e. without evil there is no concept of good).

-Euclid

[edit on 20-12-2007 by euclid]

[edit on 20-12-2007 by euclid]

Originally posted by ahuman
If evil and good didn't exist, we wouldn't be discussing those 2 things. Use common-sense. You're not dumb. Deny ignorance. Only ignorant & evil people would claim that good and evil do not exist.

As were driving down the road in this world without evil and discussing the topic...

You made a wrong turn. What is a wrong turn but an inadvertant action that was undesired.

or

What might a poor choice that was insensitive and hurt other people be? Is that evil, or lack of sensitivity or Love?

Your evil is in the intent. Evil doenst have two eyes, it doesnt breath, nor does it take action on its own. Men give action to evil ways. Ways that hurt. Ways that use good things and do bad with them.


Every man has the ability to use a shovel to plant mustard seeds, or beat the living crap out of another man to take what is not his, for amusement, or a random act of cruelty.

To use Pauls words..

Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial.

The Almighty God knows all, but does not exercise all.

Because one understands the nature of bad ways, does not make them bad or evil for all that was created was Good. Use Good for the good of all.
When you do it to benefit yourself at the cost of others, there is your evil.

Mankind has figured out how to mass manufacture with great accuracy, single items that are highly complex. Mankind grows in abundance and uniformity, his food and the gathering of resources yet does not develop systems on a Global scale that take care of all his bretheren.

Your Evil resides in the placing of ones self over another, rather then the whole. When injustice flourishes and oppression exists while their is plenty.

Your Evil is bad choice, error, and sin...errant thinking, cruelty, lack of compassion, hate, lies, and a host of other negative attributes.

In practicing global love one another, we conquer evil, terminate hate, and restore love and truth to its throne.

Peace


[edit on 20-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by euclid


I understand what you are stating but I have to slightly disagree. Yes, as difficult as it may be to avoid, obsession could be involved in both instances, but I look at it from a different angle. Instead of calling them levels they can also be called degrees. I'm tempted to ask what the Bible may say about obsession but I'll refrain.

Maybe we can dynamically think of obsession as an absolute value of say for example 180 and love/hate as +180/-180 respectively.
That would solve your two sides of the same coin theory and proving to some extent that both are the same as you state.

I disagree however with you saying indiferrence is the opposite of love/hate. Actually indifference should instead be where it belongs, right smack dab in the middle, center of the scale, the zero mark because it is exactly that, NULL, no value whatsoever either positive or negative.

Good is (______).

If you want, there is room to fill in the blank.

Originally posted by jwater88
Good is (______).

If you want, there is room to fill in the blank.

God

Start there, listen to the teachings of Christ, and you will know the Truth.

There was no hate within Jesus Christ...

Jesus Christ was the Love of God manifest in a man...

How might the whole world be, if everyone was like he?

Good


[edit on 21-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by Alxandro


I am not stating that the perpetrator has every right to do what he wants but an equal right to that of the other person. In your post you said the perpetrators feelings do not matter, only those your doing it to. Thats is what you said. Im merely saying here that the perpetrator should have rights to, i am not in any way stating that he/she have all the rights and i dont see where you can get that from reading what i posted. And no i dont think my choice of words was wrong. If a guy came up and told me to take a gun and shoot him in the head, and I applied the golden rule i could not shoot him because i would definitely not want to be shot in the head. That is exactly what i mean, there are no hidden meanings or metaphors behind this statement.

Frankly i agree with the OP.
Its more like the lesser-evil, for example lets take the war in iraq, USA and most of the western side on the globe believe the arabs are the evil one's,terrorists suicide bombers etc.

On the other hand they believe we are evil, invading one of thier countries(all though we are trying to establish a democracy, whitch is great and all but most of the arab world doesn't really agree with that) bombarding thier cities killing thier soldiers etc.

So basicly it really is chosing the lesser-evil, no cause is pure-as-snow this day and age

And sorry if somebody allready said something like this, too much pages to read ^^

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Well that would of been great but lets not forget christianity has some skeletons in its closet too, holy wars, the state of the church in the middle ages, that surly cant be what christ intended but the orders did come from the vatican and the pope.

Again, more about the lesser evil in this case too, every side thinks the other one is worst, all about opinion and what you find as right

That which veils our inmost knowledge and understanding,
encourages the illusion of ego,
or promotes ignorance is evil.

That which brings us closer to ultimate truth,
our oneness with the almighty,
and unveils spiritual truth is good.

Sub specie aeternitatis, everything is a blessing... even the harshest lesson learned.

I am you, I am Brahman...

but you can call me,

Sri Oracle

if you can inflict harm upon someone for no reason and not feel a thing, then you don't believe in good or evil.
however most of us if not all would feel badly about hurting someone, whether it be a conscious guilt or subconscious one, showing that to a degree, we all believe in some sort of right/wrong mind set.

Yes, there is such a thing as good and evil. Good does what's right even if it does not serve it's own favor or purpose. Evil does what's wrong even when it does not have to.

reply to post by euclid

Murder at the hands of another has nothing to do with God. We know right from wrong by a certain age and shouldn't need our hands held past that point. Thats like saying its O.K. to murder. If Evil and Good fell into that definition then reward would be the same for both acts, so then why not everyman for himself its all the same so why commit any acts of kindness just grab what you can from who you can like a global looting. I prefer that
all life is precious to God. Nobody has a right to take it and reward awaits those loyal to his will.