Is there such a thing as good and evil?

My friend jwater88, all i know, is that i know nothing. none of us do.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by Seiju]

Originally posted by Seiju
What about black holes? they suck in light and take it...where? light does not always conquer over the dark.

Good point. However, you basically explained this in the prior post, where you said:

Light represents energy that is a positive force.

...And Energy can be neither created nor destroyed....it can only be transferred from one state to another. - Law of Physics.

Therefore, the light absorbed into a black hole still exists.
Inside a black hole, it has only "changed its state".

ie "Good" ie. "God" cannot be created nor destroyed.
Hence, Good will always triumph over evil.

Well then by your words light cannot destroy darkness.

Interesting philosophical debate, I also agree with the thread poster that supporting your point with religion should be left to another thread.

If anything, History should be a pretty obvious example that goods and ills are colors seen only in the observer's eye. It would be wise to draw one's independent conclusions based on available evidence, and past experience. But it should also be remembered that an incident isn't simply 'good' or 'bad' because many people say it's so. Perceptions are shaped by growth, and each of us grew differently. Naturally, we'll each come to see the world differently.

This post by Dr Jackdaw was well written.

I think that my original statement might be getting off track. Im saying that the actual entity of good and evil do not exist but, the idea as we know it in our society is real but the actual plain of being able to define good and evil without prejudice will probably never exist.

This post by Seiju I also totally agree with.


If everything was so pointedly good or evil then we wouldn’t need such a complicated judicial system and vast amounts of laws. Even though our laws have come in leaps and bounds over the decades it is still far from perfect.

As pointed our previously there are so many factors involved in whether something is seen as inherently evil or good. Such as law, religion, culture and especially time. For example one thing seen in one time period as evil but later seen as good or vice-versa in another time period.

Cheers

Im glad you agree with me and id like to hear your full thoughts anytime.

Originally posted by MuLongQun
I also agree with the thread poster that supporting your point with religion should be left to another thread.

The very discussion of "Good" and "Evil" is based on a religious precept.
Unless one is promoting his/her own religious beliefs to prove a point, then, yes, that should be left to another thread. But I am not.

Practically every "religion" has some concept of good and evil. I don't see how you can completely separate the two. (Religion & Good and Evil)

This has got to be the most ridiculous question I have ever heard. Good and evil are ideas that are formed into words so that we may communicate how we feel about things with other human beings. Good is a word that we use to define what we feel is a respectable action. Bad is a word we use to define actions that we do not believe should be performed. The actual terms of which good and evil are used are up to you. You can label raping the elderly as good if you like, tell other people you think it is good if thats how you feel. Words are tools, its up to you to use them to convey how YOU feel. I really shouldnt have to explain this. If you were brutally molested from the time you were five years old you wouldn't need the word evil unless you were trying to tell other people how you felt about it (asuming you didnt like it, if you did stop reading this and go get help... no no.. I know what your thinking, type a whitty remark in a reply to me about how you were molested and liked it and then go get help BUT DONT.. resist... put down the keyboard.. there you go, now go get help.. the rest of you bastards that dont like being raped can stay... but only as long as nobody rapes anyone.. especially me). If you dont believe in the concept of good and evil or believe it is just one persons opinion just be thankful your parents werent interested in doing and allowing others to do despicable things to you.

Heres an interesting way to test your theory. Take a video of someone being brutalized and show it to people, just random people at the mall young and old, tell them it is a project. Dont tell them anything, dont say anything. Afterwards ask how they feel. Physically. Ask them how they feel physically, record your results. Then take a video of a puppy or something that could be found as universally funny (I know nothing is universally funny, get close) and do the same. Their body will physically respond to both images. If you dont trust God, or me, then at least trust the natural reaction of the human body to its environment to tell you what is "good" and "bad" or "right" or "wrong".


[edit on 18-12-2007 by shug7272]

[edit on 18-12-2007 by shug7272]

Originally posted by Seiju
Is there such a thing as good and evil? I believe there isn't . All examples of good and evil are just opinions. That is what good and evil are, opinions. There is no such thing as good and evil. Everyones idea of it is based on their opinion. There are no universal laws to govern it like there are for the universe. (ex. our theories of how it works, gravity, etc.) and even those are flawed. Some people might think premarital sex is evil, but for others it may not. Every example you put forth of good and evil differentiation is based on a pre-existing opinion you got from somewhere else.

~Does anyone else agree? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by Seiju]

I don't subscribe to moral relativism so I'm forced to disagree. Lots of minor things in life are relative, but the major ones are not. Rape and Murder can never be anything but wrong.

Originally posted by Seiju
Well then by your words light cannot destroy darkness.

Even the largest black holes will eventually evaporate. However, this process may take nearly a googol years to complete. - Wikipedia

Light ultimately triumphs over darkness.

I do not believe we invented the concept of evil. We discovered evil. And the same goes with the ethical concept of good. Good and Evil are concepts but just because we can't hold them in our hands or reach out and touch them does not mean they do not exist. Did we invent mathematics or did we discover it? I would define evil as its most basic definition - evil is the intention to cause harm or be dishonest. Are there certain acts that are universally considered evil? I would say yes and consider acts like rape and murder evil. One of the things that make humans different from all other animals on the planet is that we have the ability understand the concepts of good and evil and we have the power to defend the world from those who wish to commit evil.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by zerotime]

Great post! Great question. Back later with a longer response. -------PC

I’m not really sure what you mean by this in the sense that (since I base my idea’s on supportive evidence from evolution) that good or evil could have been discussed before religion since a spoken word I would assume came before religion so then could have been “discussed” before religion. Life and death it seems from ancient burials( I can’t be bothered searching for the source recently on yahoo) was the inception or religion not good or evil.

Since I come from a scientific psychological background the topics of good and evil, intention, morality were easily discussed or debated without any need to include religion since it would stunt discussion and turn it into a religious debate (which we already have enough of those ridiculous threads already) as I would guess is the reason the thread starter does not want to include it.

People who have recently posted that murder and dishonesty is evil should really think about the broader spectrum of things as murder is not so easily seen as evil or good. Not being honest???? This can be separated into so many different whites, grays and blacks.

People who can so easily define evil or good should either debunk all social, psychological, and philosophical sciences or go along and take a few classes and move away from the more tunnel vision way of looking at things.

I personally believe that rape is a horrible thing but the definition of rape has changed over the course of time and culture and other factors.

Please understand people that just because you believe in something doesn’t mean that we all think exactly the same as you and that another totally different opinion may just be as “right” as your own.

Originally posted by Seiju
That whole story's meaning is that we should all commit to God's will and do God's bidding and he will bless us with his grace, but he who does not commit to God will be forsaken? Why cant God just let me walk my own path to enlightenment without his interference. I dont like him judging me.

I don't think you're being honest. I think you're commenting on your percieved notions of "God" as a function of religion.

When you go for a job or get a job you're expected to do your job. This isn't judgement, this is only if you are doing what is expected of you for the postion you've taken.

When you live in your parents home, you are expected to do your chores and obey the house's rules. This isn't judgement this is doing your part.

If you are serious, then you have no consern for after judgement is passed upon you it will be like you never existed and in that way you will no longer be judged by God.

reply to post by Seiju


Yep, I saw that one coming. Which is why I said "cold blooded" murder. Someone who obviously has mental issues through no fault of their own is not cold blooded, they are simply a clinically insane murderer.

I spent far to many philosophy classes debating you relativists =)

The act of cold blooded murder - which includes the basic need to have true intent - is an action held to be "bad" by all societies. So much for everything being relative, in my opinion. One thing I have also seen moral relativists hesitant to do is to declare that they personally will hold no one's actions as good or bad, since after all it's all relative. Anyone want to take that position? It would be necessary for you to be logically consistent.

Just so you know, the first person who does I will begin asking how you would really feel about your mom being raped and murdered by a gang of people who had no mental problems. Lets see if you would have no problem dismissing their actions as being "relative" to their own context and culture. If you would not, then you are either lying or have such a warped sense of reality I would be scared of you.

I won't even go into how this view point leads to its holders inevitably backing EVERYTHING up with a relativist logical fallacy...although if the thread continues I am sure it will devolve into that, so I'll call it ahead of time.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by iunderstand

Originally posted by Seiju
Well then by your words light cannot destroy darkness.

Even the largest black holes will eventually evaporate. However, this process may take nearly a googol years to complete. - Wikipedia

Light ultimately triumphs over darkness.

But what if you were to remove everything from the universe, except empty space, what would be left? Darkness or light?

Ok cold blooded murder.

Someone kills and defiles your family, girlfriend son etc. You see a tape recording it was your next door neighbour. You run over with a gun knife and stab him/her until death. It was intentional and it was in cold blood. People will debate whether this is good or evil won’t they?

War is normally intentional and in cold blood. Is this good or evil?


You are a cult leader and ask your followers to drink a glass of “cool aid”. They do it. Is this good or evil. Since you did not “directly” kill them but merely suggest it too them.

You are an executioner for your government. You are intentionally killing someone. Are you evil?

You kill a drug dealer in your neighbour hood because your best friend overdosed on a drug that was sold to him. Are you evil?

Cold blooded murder is also hard to define. Let alone good or evil.

if u wanna know the truth, read conversations with god. its a dialog with god that a guy has that is made into 3 books. The evidence and insights in that book are so astounding and great that it convinced me that i was listening to god.

the author of this post is quite correct that the existence of good and evil is realitive and not absolute. God says in the book there is no such thing as hell or the devil. there is just fear and love. love happens to be the summation of all feelings. fear is the negation of feelings. just like the color white is the inclusion of all color.

to convince u more i'd probably have to pick up the book but i'm lazy. i just think the popularized religous drama is pure fiction and fear based ideology used to control the masses. if that # works for you, have a good time with that. yet even if there is hell, i dont fear going there cause i accepted jesus and it was greatest feeling i ever felt in my heart. i still think religion is retarded. being left handed use to be evil. theres many more evil that has been done in the name of religion so i dont accept religious arguments. everything is relative in this world and god doesnt require our worship. humans are judgmental so we assume god must be judgmental. so i leave this up to u to decide between what is good and evil. yet in the eyes of god nothing frustrates him and nothing is evil. god simply chooses not to be frustrated.

Seiju

You said on the first page that we should respect the opinions of others. Then further down on the same page you told someone their opinion was wrong.

Try following your own advice sometime. You can't say "we should respect the opinions of others" only to turn around and tell someone "their opinion is wrong". Doesn't work that way.

Just that one post from you telling someone their opinion is wrong, shows that you don't care for the opinions of others unless it fits your opinion that you believe is fact.

I have many opinons on things, but I don't go around saying they're fact. They're nothing more than my idea of things and that alone doesn't mean they're fact.

Another thing. How are you going to create a thread titled "Is there such a thing as good and evil?" and not expect religion to come up in the thread? IMHO common sense should have told you to see that coming.

[edit on 19-12-2007 by nightmare_david]

[edit on 19-12-2007 by nightmare_david]

reply to post by MuLongQun


No, not at all. Someone without mental illness just slaughtered your whole family and raped everyone. Will you not judge them since what they did is relative to their own little mini-culture? Its only difficult to define for some because this is known to be a fatal flaw in the moral relativist doctrine which they cannot get around, so they try to shield themselves from it by complicating the matter.