Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized

Originally posted by Sestias
For some reason some people associate the pentacle symbol with satanism. It is true, as some have already pointed out, that it is nothing less than a pentacle that adorns many Christmas trees, and that Wicca has nothing whatever to do with satan. It is this fear of anything remotely satanic that makes me believe the vandals were Christian, though I'd like to believe it was just random vandalism.

And yet...isn't Satanism equally regarded as a 'religion' according to the constitution? As in, it is not any less valid as far as being a personal choice according to the idea of religious freedom?

Right?

For justice to be fair it has to be EQUAL.

reply to post by queenannie38


QA38,

I'm not sure why you went on this gravely serious tangent. The thread was about holiday decorations. I personally think that some of "heterodox" decorations don't mix well and subtract from the Christmas spirit, while I don't have anything against other faiths. As simple as that.

Originally posted by marg6043
From where you information about a satanic/wiccan star comes from?

I will love to have a none bias link.

ReligiousTolerance.org

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Quite a stretch, right?

Not at all.

STAR

reply to post by buddhasystem


The Christmas spirit comes from within, is nothing more than a personal feeling that comes attach to the belief that feed that feeling and the soul.

A Christian will still be Christian with holidays or not holidays, pagan decorations or just a Nativity set.

Because it comes from you, it comes from the hart and nobody can take that away from you.

reply to post by queenannie38


Thanks I have the same link on my favorite

Sometimes I think people are too much influence by movies depicting fictional satanic rituals.

[imo]
The pentagram is the great equalizer. Viewed primarily as the sign for a himan being, it is also a sign for Christ.

Christians once more commonly used the pentagram to represent the five wounds of Jesus, and it also has associations within Freemasonry.

en.wikipedia.org...

Christian Kabbalists of the renaissance were especially enamored of the pentagram, which they viewed as a mystical proof of the divinity of Christ - to them, it symbolized Christ as the Holy Spirit manifest in the flesh.

altreligion.about.com...

Is the problem described in this thread more about an unwillingness to accept the Wiccans themselves or simply the symbol, since it is shown to play a part in both faiths?

I see it on flags the world over as well as decorating war machines. Very un-Christian, wouldn't you say? But where is the outcry over a Christian symbol being painted on the side of a bomber dropping nuclear bombs on Japan?

[/imo]

Originally posted by marg6043
From where you information about a satanic/wiccan star comes from?

I will love to have a none bias link.

A symbol (in the real world) represents what the majority thinks it represents. In the modern world this:



...represents Satan, evil and all things "dark" in nature and should be nowhere near a Christian display. We can argue about the origins of a symbol all you like but it will continue to represent what the people think it represents.

Lets argue about the swastika for a moment.

An aging Hindu or Buddhist may see this (below) as a positive symbol but try to convince that to the modern world. It will forever represent something quite different.



Most people see a pentagram as representing satan, evil and all things dark so it has no business near a nativity scene.

reply to post by kinglizard


Interesting but from where came the links to satanism, who where the first ones to do such a link and why people do not spend the time to research the truth.

I don't see the star of David as a Satanic symbol and it have 5 points also.

I think people believe what their system of believes wants them to think because is good for certain groups agendas.

I will emphasize that I also was brought up to see the pentagram as evil but as I learned its historical development through the ages I came with my own interpretation.

And you are right many will see it as evil, but is because that is what they want it to be.

This is the Wiccan Pentagram...

The pentacle, a pentagram within a circle, is the most recognizable symbol of Wicca.




altreligion.about.com...

The inverted pentagram is indeed a symbol for Satanism, but should be seen in the same light as the German inverted swastika.

They are NOT the same.






[edit on 18/12/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
The inverted pentagram is indeed a symbol for Satanism, but should be seen in the same light as the German inverted swastika.

Why not? It's same logic, really. To too many people, the pentacle is a representation of satanic ritual. Like it or not, many Christians will find this offensive at the Nativity scene. Why not just exercise some common sense and not go overboard with all this suffocating PC'ishness?

How about we put pork chops next to the Hannukah display and hear from our Jewish friends what they have to say about it. Oh, I have a better one -- in addition to pork, let's hang the Buddhist Swaticas all around the Hannukah candles. As some member here say, all in the interest of interfaith understanding. Sheesh.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Now, now, that sounds kind of extremist to me and is not actually funny at all.

I don't think they should have to take the nativity scene down. The local government there obviously went out of their way to make sure they weren't endorsing any specific religion, as the Constitution demands. It's not their fault some jackweed ruined part of the display.

Honestly, how much would it cost to just re-hang the wreath? If the perpetrator needs a ladder to take it back down again, it's only a matter of time before he's caught in the act and faces vandalism charges.

I don't see a conspiracy here. I just see how some poorly raised biggot decided to ruin things for somebody else, just out of spite and intolerance.

Originally posted by marg6043
Interesting but from where came the links to satanism, who where the first ones to do such a link and why people do not spend the time to research the truth.

I'm not sure what you are saying here...I think there are some editing mistakes but researching the truth is always good.

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't see the star of David as a Satanic symbol and it have 5 points also.

The star of david has six points.

Originally posted by marg6043
I think people believe what their system of believes wants them to think because is good for certain groups agendas.

I agree, people believe in their system of beliefs...it's the entire point of a belief. Christians believe gods word as written in the bilbe to help them serve Gods agenda.

Originally posted by marg6043
And you are right many will see it as evil, but is because that is what they want it to be.

The reason doesn't really matter what they want it to be. The point is that someone hung a symbol that is seen by the modern world as evil and satanic on or near a nativity scene. That's not ok....no matter your interpitation of the symbol.

reply to post by kinglizard


The problem is kinglizard that I do not see it as evil at all. Is that opinion of mine makes me wrong?

Originally posted by kinglizard
A symbol (in the real world) represents what the majority thinks it represents. In the modern world this:

uhm you realize thats a PENTAGRAM... NOT A PENTACLE...



This is The ACTUAL WREATH that was on display... Note... 1 point to the top 2 points to the bottom.


Explaination of the pentacle and it's meaning in the Wiccan faith.


if you would look at the photo of the wreath it has a PENTACLE on it...

ALSO... IT WASN'T NEAR THE NATIVITY... Just on the same PUBLIC Grounds.

This is a HATE CRIME... and should be prosecuted as such.

my .02... If I were the mayor... I would IMMEDIATELY pull down ALL of the other religious symbols... and when complaints come in I would point them to biblical scripture where JESUS CHRIST(mas) preaches of TOLERANCE AND PEACE.

jeez... there are some SERIOUSLY UNCHRISTIAN Christians on this board...
even worse... ones a moderator.


ATS just lost a LOT of respect from me.

hope I don't get banned or warned for Calling the Lizard out...

Originally posted by marg6043
The problem is kinglizard that I do not see it as evil at all. Is that opinion of mine makes me wrong?

Not necessarily, it just puts you in the minority with that line of thinking.

Although I don't know for sure, I would have to assume that a group of angry chistians would be responsible for this act of vandalism. And as a christian, I am quite ashamed that many within my faith insist on behaving in such a hateful way.

I can think back to a time when I was once among those who are intolerant of other religions. But one day I decided to stop listening to the christian critiques of other beliefs and start checking things out for myself. I read books by wiccan/pagan authors and even attended a few new age/metaphysical workshops. By opening myself up to the views and beliefs of others, I gained knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

I think most christians seem to equate religious tolerance with denial of Christ. But I can say honestly that this is not the case. Never once did I deny Christ as my lord and saviour. But by opening myself up to other views and beliefs, I actually gained a much better understanding my own faith. Other christians could learn these wonderful lessons as well if they would only let go of the fear that stops them. I believe there is much that christians and pagans can learn from each other. But the lines of communication need to be opened up and the walls of distrust need to be torn down.

Personally, I think someone should repair the wiccan wreath and put it right back where it was. I'm sure it will look very nice as a christmas decoration.

Originally posted by buddhasystemTo too many people, the pentacle is a representation of satanic ritual. Like it or not, many Christians will find this offensive at the Nativity scene. Why not just exercise some common sense and not go overboard with all this suffocating PC'ishness?

So, what you're saying is that the majority needs to subdue the minority by stifling expression through symbols because we must fight political correctness. Of course it has nothing to do with religious suppression, does it?

You do know that the pentacle is all over the American flag, the Russian flag, the Chinese flag ad infinitum... that's obvious. It's everywhere, but, oh my, Wicca must be Satanism, so, for goodness sakes, even if it's not true, we must stamp it out wherever it is seen?

Anton LaVey would roll over in his grave.

The pentacle has for most of my life been associated with Christmas as the 'Star in the East' which the wise men followed to Bethlehem and the Baby Jesus. It has adorned the top of my Christmas trees since as long as I can remember. But to put that next to a Nativity scene is too PC now?



edit to differentiate pentagram from pentacle

moment



[edit on 18/12/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Now, now, that sounds kind of extremist to me and is not actually funny at all.

Dear Marg,

you perception of extremism seems a little selective to me. One can argue that the Buddhist swastika is not same as the Hitler swastika, and yet you are against the Gedanken experiment that I described. Somehow, you feel fine about hanging an equally content-ambivalent symbol next to the Nativity scene. It shows, in my mind, that your opinions are directed more by the conditioned PC than by common sense and sensitivity.