Best Submarines?

Originally posted by Lociz
. The fact that it can dive to 6000 meters (stated) does not make it the best submarine. who are you going to chase down there? And with what. try to open one of your torp-tubes at that depht!
"said to be the most silence and hard to detect submarine in the russian Navy" They say that about every sub they launch, the sub isnt operative for years, so there is no way to say. This is a special purpose submarine, not one to choose in a military operation against other submarines/surface wessels. It could of course be good to land special forces, tap undersea cables or as a rescue sub etc but would pick an Akula every day if i was suposed to engage someone. They have yet to proove that this diesel/nuclear power plant is in any way practice in use and effective.

Losharik is designated for research, rescue and special military operations!
Besides, it has been under construction since 1988. The fact that it can dive to 6000 meters (stated) does not make it the best submarine. who are you going to chase down there? And with what. try to open one of your torp-tubes at that depht!

it became operational in 2003 , the source clearly states that

What on earth makes you think this is the best submarine out there? It is a relative small submarine, diesel and nuclear, which again makes makes not much space for weapons.

small sub ??? there have no specifications of the sub been given by Russian navy ...

The fact that it can dive to 6000 meters (stated) does not make it the best submarine. who are you going to chase down there? And with what. try to open one of your torp-tubes at that depht!

it can operate in the that depth , as no enemy torpedo will be operational at that depth

And with what. try to open one of your torp-tubes at that depht!

does not need to open its torpedo doors there , it can open its doors after rising to a 800 m depth, fire its torpedo or release its mine and then dive to deeper depths in magnitude of thousands (note: most torpedos can't operate at depths more than 900 m)

They say that about every sub they launch, the sub isnt operative for years, so there is no way to say.

special purpose means Spetsnaz in Russian ,
and its operational since 2003 ...

Founded in 1988 it became operational only in August 2003
en.wikipedia.org...

They say that about every sub they launch, the sub isnt operative for years, so there is no way to say.

they said this only about their Kilo SSKs

but would pick an Akula every day if i was suposed to engage someone.

knowing that USA has seawolfs and virginia Subs , I would pick a Losharik ...

but would pick an Akula every day if i was suposed to engage someone.

knowing that USA has seawolfs and virginia Subs , I would pick a Losharik ...


My mistake, I was thinking of the new sub B-90 Sarov they launched short time ago. (The Kilo-size diesel-nuclear submarine, also a experimental sub for testing of weapons and other special underwater equipment)

Anyway, the Losharik has been classed as an SSAN, an auxiliary nuclear submarine. You dont use an SSAN for engaging an potential enemy.
"The new submarine is designed for "special operations" and can also rescue crews of other submarines at great depths." I doubt very much it carry weapons, the specifications given does not makes sence using it for "standard SSN" operations..The fact that it can dive to 6000 meter also makes me certain it dont carry weapons, openings/hatches in a spherical shaped sub makes the hull to vulnerable for deep diving operations. Unless you place all your weapons outside the pressure hull. But, for tapping of communications cables on the sea floor of hostile waters, or delievering special forces to land etc such a sub can be very effective. And for doing such operations you need to be silent. That is also probably the reason for all specs to be so secret. Of course i can be wrong, but think about it and read the published info. Most likely an SSAN auxiliary sub for special operations, operations that are mostly carried out with a nearby SSN for protection, and therefore no need for own weapons It can then use the space available for all its tech equipment. A "normal" sub usualy dont have much space left for such equipment.

Again, sorry for my misunderstanding in my last post, was talking about another sub.

[edit on 7-2-2008 by Lociz]

[edit on 7-2-2008 by Lociz]

reply to post by Lociz


in the losharik the spherical inner hulls are hidden inside a conventional submarine hull ....
while some sources seem to classidy it as an SSAN ...
also , heres the classification of subs i found of the erstwhile soviet/russian navy on Pavel Podvig's website:

modern Russian nuclear submersible fleet, consists of 5 types of the subs:

a) SSBNs (Project 667 Kalmar / Delta III, Project 667 Delphin / Delta IV, Project 941 Akula / Typhoon)
b) SSNs of 'aircraft-carrier-killer' class (Project 949 Granat / Oscar I, Project 949A Antei / Oscar II, Project 885 Yasen / Granay)
(note:in the west the aircraft carrier killer sub oscar is known as SSGN)
c) SSNs of 'hunter-killer' class (Project 705 Alpha, Project 671 Victor I / Victor II, Project 971 Schuka / Akula)
d) SSNs of 'deep-water hunter-killer' class (Project 945 Sierra / Project 945А Sierra II, Zakaz 210 Losharik extra-deep sub)
e) SSNs of special projects (Project 1910 Kashalot / Uniform extra-small nuclear sub)

seems Losharik is classified as an extra deep SSN 'hunter killer' class

if its truly a hunter killer then
seems the best sub of the world =losharik , west has nothing as capable as this thing

losharik, the one man army of the Russian navy

sorta a Rambo sub for Russian navy, i mean the ultimate sub

[edit on 7-2-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 7-2-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 7-2-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Lociz

 

in the losharik the spherical inner hulls are hidden inside a conventional submarine hull ....
while some sources seem to classidy it as an SSAN ...
also , heres the classification of subs i found of the erstwhile soviet/russian navy on Pavel Podvig's website:

If you continue reading the rest of the post you can also see this comment: "As you can see, the (d) and (e) classes, should be considered as a 'small serie' ones, and mostly experimental, or special-task, ships"

modern Russian nuclear submersible fleet, consists of 5 types of the subs:

a) SSBNs (Project 667 Kalmar / Delta III, Project 667 Delphin / Delta IV, Project 941 Akula / Typhoon)
b) SSNs of 'aircraft-carrier-killer' class (Project 949 Granat / Oscar I, Project 949A Antei / Oscar II, Project 885 Yasen / Granay)
(note:in the west the aircraft carrier killer sub oscar is known as SSGN)
c) SSNs of 'hunter-killer' class (Project 705 Alpha, Project 671 Victor I / Victor II, Project 971 Schuka / Akula)

There is none operative Victor I/II class of subs left. Only a handful of Victor III's

d) SSNs of 'deep-water hunter-killer' class (Project 945 Sierra / Project 945А Sierra II, Zakaz 210 Losharik extra-deep sub)
e) SSNs of special projects (Project 1910 Kashalot / Uniform extra-small nuclear sub)

Uniform class has never been a SSN, it is a SSAN, and has no weapons..www.fas.org...

seems Losharik is classified as an extra deep SSN 'hunter killer' class

if its truly a hunter killer then
seems the best sub of the world =losharik , west has nothing as capable as this thing

losharik, the one man army of the Russian navy

sorta a Rambo sub for Russian navy, i mean the ultimate sub

Still based on ONE comment in a forum, from a russian guy..If you look at this website you see the Losharik listed under "Other" together with Uniform/Paltus special submarines..: www.globalsecurity.org...

Stating that Losharik is the best submarine in the world etc etc, is just stupid. With so little specs published, you realy cant say anything.

[edit on 7-2-2008 by Lociz]

I guess if Losharik is the best sub in the Russian fleet, then The US Navy's NR-1 has been the best sub in the USN fleet since 1969.

You're forgetting one thing - the boat is not the only part of the equation. Training plays a massive part. For example, during exercise "Silent Fury", one of Australia's Collins-class subs (diesel-electric) dodged 2 Destroyers, 2 Frigates, 1 Los Angeles-class submarine and 1 ASW helicopter, all from the US Navy. It snuck past them, and took photos of one of the destroyers, placing the destroyer firmy in torpedo range.

the russians are always making outlandish claim about there tech. the typoon was a piece of crap, the bigger a sub the easier to find, ever heard od the k19 typical soviet/russian engineering, i believe the seawolf is the best, deep diving high speed and extremly quiet, the idea that SSKs are quieter than SSNs is technecally true, practcally however the difference is marginal, btw sub speeds are classified, its popular belief on sub speed, i personally believe true speed for the seawolf to be 40+kts

reply to post by xmotex

Best SSGN: the new modified Ohio SSGN strike subs. With room for 154 Tomahawks and a SEAL team, in one of the quietest nuclear boat classes ever deployed, nothing really comes close as a strike boat. The Oscar is better armed as a battlegroup killer, but for power projection the modified Ohios are hard to beat.

The Ohio class sound/noise quieting techniques and methods went into the construction of the Sea Wolf class with improvements/upgrades. The Sea Wolf quieting techniques and methods went into the construction and design of the Virginias class with improvements/upgrades.
All of these boats are natural circulation reactors. How quiet do you think they really are??

Remember something about all of todays boats going back to the WW1& WW2 Fleet type boats. They can change the way they operate. Shut down all unecessary equipment. Everything down to a bare minimum to keep the boat operating and crew breathing. This includes nuc boats.
If you had any idea as to the extent that they can change the way they emit or not emit noise you would probably be a bit surprised.

Also concerning these exercises ...they go in with some rules of engagement...how they must operate etc etc. We are not privy to this set of rules unless we are in the exercise. This is why I dont get all excited when I hear people boasting about what happens or the results of these games. Why?? Simply because when they announce the games and reasults they dont tell you what were the parameters.. the ROE. What I am saying is that some of the features of our boats are not for public knowlege even among our allies.
Why do you think they dont want to sell F 22s to Australia?? Do we want the world to know the full classified capabilitys of these airplanes?? If so just sell them to Australia or any other allied country. I am waiting for the US congress under pressure from the Lobbiests to change the rules on selling the F22s to foreign nations. Then you can kiss all these capabilities good bye.

I was priveleged last night to walk through the sheds where the Virginias are under construction. Beautiful!! Just Beautiful.

Some food for thought.

Out on the blue water...there are submarines and then there are "TARGETS." With new technologies this dogma is moving into brown water too.

Thanks,
Orangetom



[edit on 1-3-2008 by orangetom1999]