I have a few words about Mr. Paul

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
So I ask you again: look at NAFTA, CAFTA etc. Those are creations of the so-called "free market." And look at jobs going over seas. Without jobs people don't work and without work people can't get paid and without pay people can't survive and without people surviving and living a decent life and paying into the government system than the government can't survive. Who's going to pay the huge debt we have? We don't even know the real price of our debt because the Bush administration doesn't add what all it spends on Iraq and/or Afghainstan on it. My governor where I live either last year or the previous year made a law that states any jobs that are created in my state has to stay here. You can't send the jobs to another state or another country and because of that there have been more jobs created. So since you say it isn't the governments job to create jobs doesn't that go for the salary as well? So why are you bitching about that to the federal government? I thought you were for the so-called "free market." For the record I'm for a fair market.

Again, you are not telling the truth. NAFTA was not created by the market, nor was CAFTA, NAFTA and CAFTA were created by government, it is that interference in the market place that has caused the problems you are talking about. A free market is the most fair market, you say you support a "fair market" I wonder who gets to decide whats is fair and what is not?

reply to post by SouthernBelle82


How was that an attack? It was supposed to be humorous, you know "Look at the world thru rose colored glasses"
By all means I think you should share your opinions but you jumped into this thread being argumentative and at times just plain rude and borderline spam.
If you would like to have an intelligent, articulate debate, I am sure we would all be more than happy to join in.

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Here I thought polls meant nothing. So it seems polls only matter when your person wins. Boy you Paul supporters are truly showing me your hypocritical colors just like your guy does! Good job.

You clearly show that you are here to push your agenda. Not to have any sort of actual debate. Please illustrate, clearly why you are calling Ron Paul a hypocrite? Someone has already corrected you on the abortion issue and you ignore it.

Bah, nevermind. I guess that is why they gave us an "ignore user" button isn't it?

Hun first of all you know # about me so please don't pretend like you do k? If you're playing psychic you're horrible at it. Stick to your own damn self. Second learn to actually READ. I didn't blame NAFTA, CAFTA etc on any man. I blamed it on the so-called "free market" thinking. Unlike you it seems I'm for a fair market. Maybe you should look into that. So because you claim to be some sort of "super voter" I should just automatically believe you? Sorry to disappoint you hun but it doesn't work like that. Prove it or shut it. So you think money should run our elections? Money should be the proof that someone is electable? Hmm and here I thought you guys were against that sort of thing. I guess not since it's your guy. Go figure. Oh of course. Blame the market on the banks and not the thinking of capitalism. I love how you guys are all for capitalism as long as it's you benefiting from it. LOL. Tell that to country's like Mexico and Venezuela. See how they feel about capitalism and the so-called "free market." I want a fair market where everyone gets to play instead of people who we just like. Maybe then we wouldn't have to resort to majority of our products being made in China where they're so careless and over run with sweatshops etc. that they poison products. And again hun I'm a socialist. Do some research on socialism instead of your own petty views and try to understand where other people are coming from. People are *gasps* actually okay with some of our ideas but oh the horror if we want to get involved with politics. Oh and don't come crying to me about a loss of a "nanny" state when you will need it one day. You act big and tough but I wonder how long you'll last really.

Originally posted by aravoth


Be



Furthermore, you obviously do not know what a free market is. The statements you make seem to indicate that the ills of this country are befallen to us because of actions in free market capitalism. But what you are espousing is impossible to achieve when economic planning is centralized. In short, we do not have a free market, and we haven't had a free market since 1913. The central banking concept is 100% in line with soviet style economic planning.

Your statement

SouthernBelle82 Oh and with the whole "free market" bull I would love to hear how he's going to create new jobs with all these corporations sending them over seas.

Makes me cringe. Presidents do not make Jobs. The corporations you despise so much do that. The president does not run the economy, the Central Bank, the thing that makes your beloved, bankruptcy inducing, social programs possible does that. But if you must know. Abolishing NAFTA would go a long way toward encouraging business to come back. Unless you want force a business owner to stay here through by the barrel of a gun, or the audit of the IRS. I suppose if I had to put up with the looters running rampant in this country, trying to steal my creations, demanding more of my money, demanding that I provide jobs at my expense. Forcing me to hire people that are incompetent because I have to fill a quota, I would leave too. It is after all, granting your wish. Getting rid of the greedy, corrupted corporations that are the source of everyones pain, right? Be careful what you wish for. What is happening in this country today, is the result of your every wish being fulfilled.

You wanted to spread our way of life to the far reaches of the globe and help those in need? Granted, it's what we are doing.

You wanted a nanny state, someone to take care of your retirement and medical needs? Granted, it's yours.

You wanted to punish the thinking rich for producing the things we need and "taking advantage" of the American worker? Done, don't be surprised they left.

You wanted more funding for public education? Done, 2nd in the world for most money per student, Dead last for performance.

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Hun try reading the Constitution actually k? The founding fathers set up checks and balances. If you're as intelligent as you like to be cocky I'm sure you already know what the checks and balances are. Or do you need to take a basic American government class in college?

Your post is confusing, and I cannot tell who you are responding to so I'll answer that question as well.

The last seven years should show everyone in this country exactly how the check and balance system has been overthrown, and there is no one to police it as the states just don’t have the power to stand up for themselves.



[edit on 12/17/2007 by defcon5]

Right so that's why you did, again, your personal attack. Being involved in politics I'm sure you know what it means. Don't insult me.

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
reply to post by SouthernBelle82

 

How was that an attack? It was supposed to be humorous, you know "Look at the world thru rose colored glasses"
By all means I think you should share your opinions but you jumped into this thread being argumentative and at times just plain rude and borderline spam.
If you would like to have an intelligent, articulate debate, I am sure we would all be more than happy to join in.

Hun I'm going to say this once so read it: don't you tell me I'm not telling the truth ever. It's called my opinions. If you can't respect that don't you insult me. And I told you a fair market is where everyone gets to play and nobody is shut out (like we do Cuba). I'm sure your mother and/or father taught you how to play fair when you were a child yes?

Originally posted by aravoth

Again, you are not telling the truth. NAFTA was not created by the market, nor was CAFTA, NAFTA and CAFTA were created by government, it is that interference in the market place that has caused the problems you are talking about. A free market is the most fair market, you say you support a "fair market" I wonder who gets to decide whats is fair and what is not?

Right and the person who created this thread didn't have an agenda either. I guess again we're not allowed to have our own opinions here on ATS. Thanks for showing me your true colors. I have to have an "agenda" for speaking my views. Thanks for your so-called "liberty" and "freedom." Oh and you might want to tell Paul there IS a thing called the seperation of church and state in that first amendment he likes to pick and choose from.

Originally posted by Karlhungis

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Here I thought polls meant nothing. So it seems polls only matter when your person wins. Boy you Paul supporters are truly showing me your hypocritical colors just like your guy does! Good job.

You clearly show that you are here to push your agenda. Not to have any sort of actual debate. Please illustrate, clearly why you are calling Ron Paul a hypocrite? Someone has already corrected you on the abortion issue and you ignore it.

Bah, nevermind. I guess that is why they gave us an "ignore user" button isn't it?

reply to post by SouthernBelle82


really, then why is everyone in this country so unhappy????so outraged at politicians and fed up with government... you may not agree with ron paul but at least hedoes what he says, that youcan count on... all the others get in office and bow down to big biz.

many say paul is crazy---crazier than bush????? or power hungry hillary----i'll take my chances

That's why we have the right to vote and people need to get off their asses and vote. Of course if Paul had his way a good number of the people here in our country wouldn't be able to vote today.

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Hun try reading the Constitution actually k? The founding fathers set up checks and balances. If you're as intelligent as you like to be cocky I'm sure you already know what the checks and balances are. Or do you need to take a basic American government class in college?

Your post is confusing, and I cannot tell who you are responding too so ill answer that question as well.

The last seven years should show everyone in this country exactly how the check and balance system has been over thrown, and there is no-one to police it as the states just don’t have the power to stand up for themselves.

Crazier than Bush? I'd say they're pretty equal. Hillary? No. Hillary is too conservative for me but she won't take away my right to vote, my right to a public education, my right to an abortion if I ever needed one for some reason (that's MY BUSINESS!) etc. Paul is fine for the fourth amendment until it's my body than he's all up in my business.

Originally posted by shortywarn
reply to post by SouthernBelle82

 

really, then why is everyone in this country so unhappy????so outraged at politicians and fed up with government... you may not agree with ron paul but at least hedoes what he says, that youcan count on... all the others get in office and bow down to big biz.

many say paul is crazy---crazier than bush????? or power hungry hillary----i'll take my chances

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
I have looked at Ron Paul's voting record hun. As a socialist it scares the # out of me. He will undue so much progress this country has made. I guess you'd like to go back to the Colonial period huh?

Progress? Progress..... I'm astonished that a person like you would be shocked that businesses are leaving our country. Let me help you.

You are not entitled to anything. I do not owe you one single dime of the fruits of my labor. It is mine, it belongs to me. You would have us all paying your way through life, you would try to force a company to stay, out of some obscene patriotic duty to a nation that steals from them through enormous amounts of regulation. How does it feel, all the progress you socialists have made in the last 50 years, doing pretty well arn't you? You've managed to force out our manufacturing jobs. You've also managed to bankrupt virtually every facet of national, state and county government there is. You've managed to turn our education system into one of the worlds worst, producing students that couldn't tell you what the word axiom meant, or find the state they live in on a map.

Yes you have made great progress. Please keep it up. With any luck every single industry will leave our country, and leave people like you to fend for themselves. Then what will you do? Work at Mcdonald's, so you can buy your lunch at Burger King? What a convoluted mess. What would you do without the big government nanny state. It has been my experience that most socialists are incapable of taking care of themselves. It seems logical, after all if you could why would you need any of the federal handouts you ask for?

But that is the great hypocritical nature of socialism. Supporters of it always claim it is to help those in need. That it will balance the scales. Socialists need poor people, they need a class of people to keep at the bottom, it's the only way you'd ever get votes. If everyone was successful, no one would need the things you talk about. In short, you depend on the poor, you need the poor, most ironically, you need the poor to stay poor. Sad.

[edit on 18-12-2007 by aravoth]

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Hun I'm going to say this once so read it: don't you tell me I'm not telling the truth ever. It's called my opinions. If you can't respect that don't you insult me. And I told you a fair market is where everyone gets to play and nobody is shut out (like we do Cuba). I'm sure your mother and/or father taught you how to play fair when you were a child yes?]

You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own version of the facts. The truth simply is, and there is no refuting it.

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
That's why we have the right to vote and people need to get off their asses and vote. Of course if Paul had his way a good number of the people here in our country wouldn't be able to vote today.

First off that is the crux of this entire thread, does our vote really count?
Personally, I don’t think it counts as much as most believe it too. I think that big business gives the money to the people they wish to support, and they also own the media. As to the votes themselves, I sure hope that they count, but you know that the elite put in the “Electoral College” because they did not trust the uneducated masses to vote properly.

As to Ron’s voting against the Civil Rights amendment. Ron Paul is not afraid to vote down a whole bill if he sees a part of it that is Unconstitutional. Riders have become a big part of the problem with this country, and it is getting worse all the time. A good example is the REAL ID Act which was passed as a rider on a defense bill and would have been voted out if not for the troops needing body armor. The reason that he voted against the Amendment you mention is not because he thinks minorities should not get to vote, but because some of the “Equal Opportunity” language in that bill created not only “Reverse Discrimination”, but also was completely Unconstitutional. It is Unconstitutional to tell a company that they have to hire a less qualified candidate for a job because he/she is a minority.


[edit on 12/18/2007 by defcon5]

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Here I thought polls meant nothing. So it seems polls only matter when your person wins. Boy you Paul supporters are truly showing me your hypocritical colors just like your guy does! Good job.

Originally posted by Solarskye
I live here in knoxville, Tn and a radio host took a straw poll today just for the fun of it and got surprised big time by the outcome. Fred Thompson is Tennessee's man and the radio host thought for sure he would have more votes. He just took phone calls from everybody from all around the listening area and by unanimous vote Ron Paul won. I think Fred got seven votes, Hillary got two, Obama got two, Romney got nine a few others got one or two votes, but Ron Paul got 35 votes. I know that's just a straw poll that doesn't really mean much but it sure surprised the talk show host Hallerin Hilton Hill. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you all.

I'm not a Paul supporter. I only threw that in because it happened on WNOX-FM 100.3 Newstalk.

Kind of irks me to see such rabid anti-Ron Paul statements being made in a thread that is for the most part, defending Paul. The man is fighting an uphill battle of the most amazing sort, and there will ALWAYS be people shooting him down. The majority of American's look at Mitt Romney and swoon that he would be a handsome President, or they cheer on Hillary Clinton like a bastion of civil liberty because she is a Woman, or they bow before Obama as the next guiding light of the country, the first 'black man' to run for President.

Yet the unaffected, the undetoured seekers of constitutional freedom, we saw in Ron Paul, a defender of the nation we used to have. All under one banner, we are an easy target for censorship, as almost every other candidate besides Mike Gravel has proven loyal to the neocon agenda in one way or another, there is no danger in allowing Obama and Romney or Clinton etc. to duke it out on the world stage. What is a danger to the establishment is allowing Ron Paul to step up and mention our constitutional rights over and over in the face of pure-bred fascist actor-politicians. Ron Paul is real - and a real candidate will not be undetoured in his fight to the podium.

I believe the censorship and the possible character attacks or assassination attempts on Ron Paul are obvious and will only bring more attention to the next travesty of an election, however they manage to screw THIS one up.

if your gonna tell us why you dont like Ron Paul at least have your facts straight before you enter the lions den, because Paul supporters know their stuff..

oh and heres this.. www.youtube.com...

your argument holds no water my good sir.

First of all you should look at my name. If you know anything you should know that "southern belle" is a female. So please first get that right. And I have my facts. It's called his voting record. I'm not going by a youtube.com video but by his own record. There's that pesky thing again.

Originally posted by turbokid
if your gonna tell us why you dont like Ron Paul at least have your facts straight before you enter the lions den, because Paul supporters know their stuff..

oh and heres this.. www.youtube.com...

your argument holds no water my good sir.

So again don't insult me because I have the nerve to disagree with you. Deal with it.

Originally posted by aravoth

Originally posted by SouthernBelle82
Hun I'm going to say this once so read it: don't you tell me I'm not telling the truth ever. It's called my opinions. If you can't respect that don't you insult me. And I told you a fair market is where everyone gets to play and nobody is shut out (like we do Cuba). I'm sure your mother and/or father taught you how to play fair when you were a child yes?]

You are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own version of the facts. The truth simply is, and there is no refuting it.

reply to post by SouthernBelle82

If polls really didn't mean anything than why the bitching? If Paul supporters really believed that than they wouldn't care.

Because they are presented as being unbiased, and many people who participate in the polls disagree. If you are going to have them, they need to be fair and you can’t only down play them when he actually wins one. Either make them unbiased or get them off the screen and stop talking about them. Both choices are acceptable

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Several people have received national polling calls, others even had it recorded. In many cases Ron Paul is not even a choice on the national poll, in others, it's simply a "For another candidate, press 6."

that’s not uncommon to hear.

I have looked at Ron Paul's voting record hun. As a socialist it scares the # out of me. He will undue so much progress this country has made. I guess you'd like to go back to the Colonial period huh?

I think socialism is a result of people having little faith in each other. But you know, if the majority of your state feels that way then they could implement many of their own systems and not be slowed down so much by the federal government if Ron Paul was president. It ‘s all about restricting the federal government’s power over the state. It allows for more freedom and flexibility and less discontent among people.

So I ask you again: look at NAFTA, CAFTA etc. Those are creations of the so-called "free market."

Ron Paul would work to do away with both and the ect. I think that whole paragraph is in line with Ron Paul’s views. Here’s another quote:

We don’t need government agreements to have free trade. We merely need to lower or eliminate taxes on the American people, without regard to what other nations do. Remember, tariffs are simply taxes on consumers. Americans have always bought goods from abroad; the only question is how much our government taxes us for doing so. As economist Henry Hazlitt explained, tariffs simply protect politically-favored special interests at the expense of consumers, while lowering wages across the economy as a whole. Hazlitt, Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and countless other economists have demolished every fallacy concerning tariffs, proving conclusively that unilateral elimination of tariffs benefits the American people. We don’t need CAFTA or any other international agreement to reap the economic benefits promised by CAFTA supporters, we only need to change our own harmful economic and tax policies. Let the rest of the world hurt their citizens with tariffs; if we simply reduce tariffs and taxes at home, we will attract capital and see our economy flourish.

Source: www.house.gov...