New discoveries are confirming electric sun theories.

Originally posted by caddyshacker
Hi all, I'm new to ATS but have been surfing for quite a while. Great Thread and I am hooked on this theory. One question for those more educated to answer: How would this theory affect lightning? Seems that scientists are not absolutely sure how lightning is formed except with static charges? Could this theory explain a charged atmosphere?

Absolutely, The Earth is a charged body moving through plasma, evidence has shown that less dense forms of plasma discharge occur up to 70km above at the same time lightning occurs. Blue jets, elves and sprites are now fact. The Earth is exchanging electrical charge with the surrounding solar plasma. Tornadoes are now being investigated as an electrical phenomena, Earthquakes apparently can be induced by electricity, and are often seen with an electrical glow called earthquake lights as well as radio static. Volcanoes are often seen with vast amounts of lightning.
The energy pumping into the poles may be the catalyst for all weather and geological activity.




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[edit on 20-12-2007 by Jbird]

I just want to say that this is by far the most significant thread I have read on this site since I began reading here.

The ideas involving an electric universe connect to many other ideas, including a denial of the big bang theory. The alternative theory involves the idea that the universe has always existed. At least I don't have to risk my brain exploding imaging god existing all alone for an inexpressible number of billion years before "he" decided to create the universe. Actually, the theory doesn't require a creator if all-that-is always existed.

But even the idea that the universe has always existed might explode my brain almost as easily as imaging god being lonely and bored for a ridiculously long time.

reply to post by squiz


I believe also that Auroras are seen during volcanic eruptions, this would be another piece of evidence to back up the findings. I have always believed from Esoteric writings that the sun is a conductor of energy and transfers energy to and from the earth. I have always described it as a funnel of "dark matter" (for lack of a better word). It is great to see some real hard data supporting this. Very interesting!


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[edit on 20-12-2007 by Jbird]

Originally posted by Gorman91
interesting. The sun needs an orbital studying facility.

There are facilities in orbit dedicated to observing and studying the Sun. That's where all this information is coming from.

SOHO - Solar and Heliospheric Observatory
STEREO - Solar Terrestrial Relations Observatory
Hinode (Solar-B)

and the upcoming

SDO -Solar Dynamics Observatory

are just a few. There's a whole lot more currently in orbit and even more planned for the future. A complete list can be found here.

reply to post by they see ALL

Maybe NASA's stance is connected to denying a source of free power to the World's population?, I believe so.
It is probably worth reading Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision' as I recall that he too believed that the Solar System, if not the whole universe was one Great Electric Motor. Not forgetting Tesla whose work has demonstrated an enormous source of electricity all around us.
My own electrical knowledge is somewhat limited, these are simply my thoughts and in this connection, I take great interest in what you all have to say,
Reghards,
Horsegiver.

This is why tornadoes and hurricanes happen. If you look at the way these strings or ropes appear on the sun you can see in your minds eye a rope up the centre of the tornado, moving in a similar path. As much as "science" has explained the "theory" of tornadoes and hurricanes, they have yet to confirm how and why they happen, but only guess. The idea of an electric rope as the catalyst for the spinning of air forming these phenomenon makes more sense.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I don't know what "they" you are talking about, but I feel your pain.

If you are not aware of the 'they' you are either one of them or do not need watching as your indoctrination were far better done than mine.

Birkeland was a visionary scientist for sure, and ahead of its time, which happens, you know.

Ahead of his time? Why do you prescribe to the notion that some scientist are ahead of their time as if they pulled theories ideas from thin air? Why are you so ready to dismiss the idea that other scientist could not have arrived at the very same conclusions if they were purely interested in finding the truth? Why do the progression of the sciences so frequently depend on individual genius to move it along when there is supposedly so many great minds working together to find the truth?

He's not alone among the scientists whose ideas could be truly proven only with advent of more advanced instruments (cf. atomic theory of matter).

What do you mean his ideas could not be 'truly' proven? Why do the science establishment keep backing the wrong horses if their patronage is randomly assigned to various geniuses? Do you trust systems that keeps supporting mistakes? More specifically why do you think Birkeland's theories and ideas were only recently validated?

I really don't see your point. Birkeland did not have spacecraft to actually map out the magnetic field in space. So as brilliant as his theory was, it was finally proven only recently.

Proof is a entirely subjective measure when vested interest are involved and i am not naive or young enough to believe that they coincidentally keep defending conventions that are not nearly as well supported by data as the opposing theories.

How is it relevant to the topic of the discussion and the exuberant reaction of some of this forum's guests? It's a very, very neat piece of physics but I find it hardly an earth-shattering discovery (compare to the discovery of nuclear fission in the 30s).

" NASA never tried to hide the effects of the solar wind and its interaction with the Earth magnetosphere -- which cause all sorts of trouble. "

That's what you claimed and rather than call you a a liar to your face i decided to ask you how well you know NASA's record in the majority of fields. Since you did not seem to figure that out i can just state for a fact that NASA has fully played it's part in slowing down research in this area by allocating astronomically large amounts of funds to a manned research that is exceedingly inefficient and wasteful. More specifically NASA has held back research on nearby planets and the sun by refusing to use Hubble and other space instruments in such roles.

You don't know that, so I dismiss that as empty talk.

Well i do 'know that' as that's my personal opinion but your right in presuming that i wont be able to convince someone such as yourself.

Oh, you are so damn cavalier about science and its achievements, my friend.

First off i have no interest in being a friend of yours in any 'figure of speech' and i am 'cavalier' about what science has not achieved because i am familiar with it's record of suppression and general mendacity when it comes to theories that serve to liberate humanity from the prevailing corporate controlled socio-economic realities achieved trough hiding a large volume of information from the masses. "Science" and scientist could not only have done far more for the planet and humanity but would have if that establishment were not co-opted in the same way so many others were.

I urge you to meditate on how inefficient science is next time you post your condescending messages on this forum (courtesy science that brought this tech to you), when you buy a BlueRay DVD or a high tech condom or use GPS to get to pharmacy in time before it closes for the night. Sheesh.

And while some of us benefit by thinking conservatively and thanking our lucky stars that we have what we already do a few among us understand the vast majority do not partake in our current luxuries and won't while even we happy few are content with scraps off the establishment table. Basically the current system works very well for both of us ( otherwise i wouldn't be able to allocate so much time towards arguing with people who similarly have time to allocate towards staying uninformed) but one of us knows that it can work far better if ALL of even the establishment indoctrinated scientist were allowed a fair chance at having their voices heard and theories publicized. If we allowed such the science mavericks that so frequently arrive at the truth without formal training would begin to find many allies with the right contacts and resources but until then we are dependent on not only their lone genius but also on their skill to survive all the current economic forces that would suppress their work.

Stellar

Ok, so if one way or another Aliens and Spacetravel in UFOs is real (don't want to start an argument) would this add weight to the fact that they cruise around the universe with Electromagnetic propulsion using this 'ropes' as sling shots or something similar?

I resently send an email to the Danish Niels Bohr institute regarding the electric universe.
I have made a thread about it and i think you all should read it, to see how they reacted... comment all you like about it too.

Electric universe Vs. Niels Bohr Institute

It is so great that more and more observations are fitting into the electric universe theory, and I am gonna follow the development of it, thats for sure.!

G'day, folks. If you are interested in the Electric Sun model, Electric Universe,
Plasma Cosmology, then I heartily suggest that you visit www.thunderbolts.info, www.holoscience.com, www.plasma-universe.com.

Insofar as this thread is concerned, the topic is being quite actively discussed by myself and others on the thunderbolts forum.

Sun theories, through a new looking glass.

I was banned at BAUT for even mentioning it, within about 72 hrs. A dubious distinction to be sure. However, I've also contributed over on Slashdot as well, on the same issue.

A list of a few links to posts I've made over there.

Just thought folks might be interested to hear some of the conversations going on over at thunderbolts.info and on Slashdot.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

[edit on 19-12-2007 by mgmirkin]

Is the fact that the Earth's magnetic field has weakened in recent years related to increased electro-magnetic energy coming from the Sun?

reply to post by Chriswok


That might be true for the electric craft Tesla might have envisioned or
designed.
www.youtube.com...

Thats a nice bunch.

However these craft are in the air or rarefied upper atmosphere as
observed by NASA satellite.

I have doubted its ability to even fly to the moon, thus leaving us
with rockets to do the job.

If these ufos can generate opposing electrical forces in air, will that
work in space or will another electrical method require being invented.

Such an interesting theory.

I wonder what kind of discoveries this would yield if it is correct. "Free Energy" would come down to your ability to gather surrounding electricity. I wonder how efficient it could become. I also raises questions about space travel, whether or not these magnetic ropes that connect cosmic bodies could also act as a "fast track" to other locales.

It's all very interesting.

Giday all, I'm new to ATS, but might I say I'm very much encouraged to see the electric universe topic discussed in such a mature manner on such a large forum.

In addition to the links posted by mgmirkin, I'd like to add what would seem a self-serving link, to PlasmaResources.com.

I have been researching the electric universe/plasma cosmology for some time now, and found it very difficult to navigate to all the good stuff about it, so I decided to create a resource center for all those with an interest in the topic to be able to study it from one central point.

It is laid out in a clear manner, with links to all the resources you will need if you're new to the subject but wish to study it further. Also included are links to mainstream and alternative sources of information, so users can make up their own minds, rather than be told what to think.

So rip over for a look, I welcome any and all criticizm, there's email links for feedback, and also a Guestbook to sign should you wish.

I hope this is helpful to those who have heard just a little of the theory and wish to learn a whole lot more.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
PlasmaResources.com

Originally posted by droid56
Is the fact that the Earth's magnetic field has weakened in recent years related to increased electro-magnetic energy coming from the Sun?

www.junkscience.com...

Notice the downturn trending in the graph over the last 3-4 years? Seems we' may still be in the overall downturn (though still with some variability).

We're also at the end of the most recent solar cycle... Cycles come in appx 11 year increments.

(Almost Full Circle in Extreme Ultraviolet; next in series would be 2007)
Almost Full Circle in Extreme Ultraviolet

I'm wondering, from some of my recent readings and notions about the sun versus the Birkeland terella, whether the opposite of your statement true:

IE, if the increase/decrease in solar cycle is due to external current flow, then perhaps the decrease in current flow to the sun has led to a decrease in current flow to the Earth, as well.

Might that lead to the decrease in the Earth's field? An open question, purely speculative. Interesting, nonetheless.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

reply to post by davesmith_au


Hi Dave. Thats a brilliant site there (www.plasmaresources.com...) nice to see so many new sites about plasma cosmology or the elecric universe. I have recently created a page on the electric sun at; www.plasma-universe.com... I have been able to find over twenty peer reviewed papers supportive of electric currents on the sun, and I found that there are plenty of papers in support for these theories in other countries, especially in russia and japan.

A good paper to read about why exacly currect theories of space are wrong is this one, recently published in the IEEE journal of plasma physics, from Donald Scott; members.cox.net...

It is clear that a rigorous understanding of the real physical properties of magnetic fields in plasmas is crucial for astrophysicists and cosmologists. Incorrect pronouncements about the properties of magnetic fields and currents in plasma will be counterproductive if these conceptual errors are propagated into publications and then used as the basis of new investigations. There are some popular misconceptions.

1) Magnetic “lines of force” really exist as extant entities in
3-D space and are involved in cosmic mechanisms when
they move.

2) Magnetic fields can be open ended and can release energy
by “merging” or “reconnecting.”

3) Behavior of magnetic fields can be explained without any
reference to the currents that produce them.

4) Cosmic plasma is infinitely conductive, so magnetic fields
are “frozen into” it.

And with that, a lot of current theories about the sun are rendered useless as they are based on these metaphysical constructs that have never been observed once. No-one has ever seen a magnetic field line 'reconnect' or get tied into a 'knot'. These ideas work well on paper, but hold no relation to reality at all.

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Birkeland was a visionary scientist for sure, and ahead of its time, which happens, you know.

Ahead of his time? Why do you prescribe to the notion that some scientist are ahead of their time as if they pulled theories ideas from thin air?

Some people have deeper insight than others. Does that susprise you?

Why are you so ready to dismiss the idea that other scientist could not have arrived at the very same conclusions if they were purely interested in finding the truth?

There is only one criterion of truthfullness in physics, and that is whether the theory is in fact supported by experimental facts. I know that this notion is intensely disliked by "armchair scientists". Now, until the magnetic field is indeed mapped out and the particle fluxes are measured, any hypothesis is jsut that.

Why do the progression of the sciences so frequently depend on individual genius to move it along when there is supposedly so many great minds working together to find the truth?

Well, try to take a graduate-level general relativity class and you'll understand why. Truth may be tougher to obtain than you think.

He's not alone among the scientists whose ideas could be truly proven only with advent of more advanced instruments (cf. atomic theory of matter).

What do you mean his ideas could not be 'truly' proven?

Theories, again, are proven by experiment, whenever the capability for such an experiment arises. Do you have a problem with that?

Do you trust systems that keeps supporting mistakes?

When I enjoy a particularly powerful PC, or marvel at the wonderful pictures of Hyperion, I feel that the science, by and large, it working just fine. You, somehow, want just all the correct results here and now. That's a pretty infantile attitude.

I really don't see your point. Birkeland did not have spacecraft to actually map out the magnetic field in space. So as brilliant as his theory was, it was finally proven only recently.

Proof is a entirely subjective measure when vested interest

Well if this is how you define proof, I can't help you. I prefer the usual, scientific definition of proof -- design and build an apparatus, evaluate its characteristics, do the measurements, analyze data, offer it for a review, publish it in an open refereed publication, so others have a chance to question the method and the result. Follow up if necessary.

This is the cycle I follow in my research, and so does every serious scientist. Those who think that "proof is a subjective measure", on the other hand, are not taken seriously.

" NASA never tried to hide the effects of the solar wind and its interaction with the Earth magnetosphere -- which cause all sorts of trouble. "

That's what you claimed and rather than call you a a liar to your face

Well, that would make you look rather foolish, don't you think?

Since you did not seem to figure that out i can just state for a fact that NASA has fully played it's part in slowing down research in this area by allocating astronomically large amounts of funds to a manned research that is exceedingly inefficient and wasteful. More specifically NASA has held back research on nearby planets and the sun by refusing to use Hubble and other space instruments in such roles.

I see you have a beef with NASA over budgeting the Hubble time. Well, welcome to the real world, where there is competition for resources in science. Some projects get canceled, some downsized, and only a paranoid type will speculate that there is a continuous nefarious agenda behind all of that.

but one of us knows that it can work far better if ALL of even the establishment indoctrinated scientist were allowed a fair chance at having their voices heard and theories publicized. If we allowed such the science mavericks that so frequently arrive at the truth without formal training

That's a cookie cutter post (I've seen quite a few here on ATS) coming from a person who, unfortunately, was not able to obtain formal training in physics and compensates for this by blasting the "establishement" and basking in realization that his hindsight is always 20/20 and now he can say "I told you! this maverick was a genius and the evil govt suppressed him!".

In addition, back to the topic at hand:

Birkeland was born in the Norwegian capital, Christiania (now Oslo), and studied in Paris, Geneva, and Bonn where he was a pupil of Robert Bunsen. In 1898 he was appointed to the chair of physics in Oslo University.

Birkeland was highly trained, well connected and a part of the establishement. He was a physics chair, for gossake. AND he was a genius.

I just found out thanks to all the posts about plasma that the suns corona is much hotter than it's surface which contradicts the laws of thermodynamics. As said somewhere else it would be like sitting infront of an oven and feeling hotter 5m away from it than next to it. How does standart theory explain this? How does plasma universe explain it?

Originally posted by ZeuZZ
I have recently created a page on the electric sun at; www.plasma-universe.com... I have been able to find over twenty peer reviewed papers supportive of electric currents on the sun, and I found that there are plenty of papers in support for these theories in other countries, especially in russia and japan.

What a brilliant piece of work! I'm enjoying every bit of it. Thanks!