FEMA says melted steel at WTC 7

reply to post by OrionStars



It appears that something melted either the bolts or the welds or both. I'm not sure what it is. Any suggestions?

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by OrionStars

 

It appears that something melted either the bolts or the welds or both. I'm not sure what it is. Any suggestions?

This is what I surmise just from observation of a photgraph.

It looks to be too much intended pattern and silvery appearing to be "melted" steel at the joint connection. Too much "melt" to be bolt heads melted. No other melting, surrounding it, occurred on the steel joint connections. Not even corrosion effect. That steel portion of joint attachment looks intact and highly pristine in appearance. Possibly intact parts of hat trusses, which would not necessarily become disintegrated with the other steel?

reply to post by OrionStars


I do have to point out that the failure along the bolt holes on the right side is consistant with shearing. I'm still at a loss though as to the color and everything else (what looks like melted areas).

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by OrionStars

 

I do have to point out that the failure along the bolt holes on the right side is consistant with shearing. I'm still at a loss though as to the color and everything else (what looks like melted areas).

I does not, which is why I placed the word "melt" in quotation marks. Nothing looks melted or corroded immediately surrounding the area of what looks to be welded bolt reinforcement. Since you are most familiar with welds, that is why I requested you observation as well. Thank you.

This is what I'm talking about. The red line on the right is a typical shear failure for bolted connections. It's actually how bolted connections are designed.

The red circles are what to me looks like some sort of molten material running down the steel plates? If you have another explaination of what that is, I'm all ears.

reply to post by Griff


Griff, after I was done with my last post, it dawned on me I was not clear on what I meant. That is why we are looking at two different pieces of metal. I was referring to the girder at joint attachment. Thank you for clearing up the confusion with the same cropped photo you embedded.

Originally posted by Griff
This is what I'm talking about. The red line on the right is a typical shear failure for bolted connections. It's actually how bolted connections are designed.

The red designated areas look to be the runny yellow color, which can occur from sulpher combined in thermite. But why it would be there and no where else on the metal, depending on what that metal is, I have no idea. It is difficult to tell what it started out to be from a photo.

DEW also releases high thermal energy, and it could be a result from that. What DEW does not disintegrate, it can still melt and heavily corrode what is not melted. It is a speed-up erosion which can be at least 50 times faster than natural erosion would occur. It all depends on the maximum power energy level of the DEW.

It could be a result of being in contact with the aftereffect of thermate cutter charges. It could be anything with enough thermal energy to melt any part of any steel or any other metal.

However, with thermate, it would not simply happen on the bolts and nowhere else surrrounding the bolt areas. Unless, it was exposed to much cooder conditions before it started melting any other part of the steel.

That is a great deal of corrosion look, moreso than melting at bolt joints, which would never occur from fire, and would never occur in a few hours. Try years under atmospheric element conditions in a junkyard.

Suffice to say that metal was not placed in that condition by natural conditions. Unless, they took it out of some junkyard where it was corroding to that condition for years. It still would not produce yellow for color.

Originally posted by OrionStars
Suffice to say that metal was not placed in that condition by natural conditions. Unless, they took it out of some junkyard where it was corroding to that condition for years.

I agree. And there still isn't an official explanation for that or the corrosion that FEMA found.

Bolts & welds would be thinner than the structural steel so all it would take is to sever the connections (melt the bolts and welds) and not have to slice through steel completely for it to fail. Just some thoughts I'm having.

Originally posted by Griff

Bolts & welds would be thinner than the structural steel so all it would take is to sever the connections (melt the bolts and welds) and not have to slice through steel completely for it to fail. Just some thoughts I'm having.

Based on my own life experiences, I have no choice but to agree with your thoughts on that matter.

Oxygen enriched???? Guys n gals, the ONLY place on earth so far, that i know of, is NASA, that can make an environemnt like that... it happened on apollo8? In the capsule , up in hte saturn V rocket, the air in the cabin back then was 100% oxygen, so ive read, not mixed with any other elements..... pure oxygen is highly combustable..in the astronauts case, al it took, was a small barley noticable spark form a wire, and that caused the apollo cockpit to burst into flames... cooked him to death.
on earth, air is air...being in the towers or WTC building, air is stil air, its not 100% oxygen we breath...
FEMA is full of it...cmon all....thihnk back to Katrina...they had the roads blocked off so no one could escape, they were slow to help, shabby at best, and many of the people were taken to FEMA camps so far away form home....for no reason...
and were supposed to belive anything FEMA tells us???

Originally posted by Griff
This is what I'm talking about. The red line on the right is a typical shear failure for bolted connections. It's actually how bolted connections are designed.

The red circles are what to me looks like some sort of molten material running down the steel plates? If you have another explaination of what that is, I'm all ears.

It's been a while for this thread, but it's an important one, with real evidence in it, and this photo in particular always nagged at me and I just hunted it down again.

Griff, to answer your question, look closely at the photo: the once-molten material you've highlighted are (were) actually the bolts holding that beam to the flange. You can see intact bolts in line below them, set out in a mirroring pattern.

Remarkable evidence, and worthy of further discussion.

reply to post by gottago



I'M bumping this up as well, clearly this needs a discussion. This is why its so tragic that so much of the debris from those buildings was done away with, it really looks suspicious.

reply to post by gottago


i have to disagree that that is a typical shear pattern, because of the discoloration.

it orange indicates higher exposure to oxygen in those areas. like there was great heat around the bolts and THEN it 'typically' sheared. you can see those stream-like discolorations on the torn edge as well.

reply to post by billybob


billybob,

that was Griff's post about shearing that I quoted with the photo in my response. I was pointing out the missing bolts on the left and what looks to be trails of once liquified metal--i.e., the bolts themselves, which apparently melted. That, and the state of that flange assembly, is pretty remarkable.

reply to post by gottago


yeah, i know. i was pointing it out to griff and you too, eh. (

Originally posted by billybob
reply to post by gottago

 

yeah, i know. i was pointing it out to griff and you too, eh. (

reply to post by Griff


right, then. tally ho.

[not a one liner]line two.[/not a one liner]

Originally posted by gottago

billybob,

that was Griff's post about shearing that I quoted with the photo in my response. I was pointing out the missing bolts on the left and what looks to be trails of once liquified metal--i.e., the bolts themselves, which apparently melted. That, and the state of that flange assembly, is pretty remarkable.

Puhleez, the trails are rust from the piles being sprayed with water.

The round pieces inside the red circles are the sheared off bolts. They did not melt.

The areas surrounding the bolts were painted red. We've all seen construction photos.

The shaered off bolts obviously wouldn't have paint on the shear faces. This is the area that rusted. The water "carried" the rust downwards.

reply to post by Whodunnit


that's your opinion.

i disagree. water would not leave such a high contrast, nor would there be a colour gradient surrounding the sheared plate's bolt holes.

if the corrosion were from spraying, it would be more spread out, and not concentrated around the bolts.

thanks for saying 'please'.

Originally posted by billybob
if the corrosion were from spraying, it would be more spread out, and not concentrated around the bolts.

Even though the other areas were painted? And still HAD their paint?

Think about this before you answer.....