Vampires from the Caribbean

Originally posted by Brodee
We have alot of old hags running around this town. Give her a Jackson and she'll give

Well, that's one way to suck the life outta someone. Too bad you gotta pay for it.

theshadowlands.net...

www.vampgirl.com...

and I can add 2 more caribbean countries that share the same type of vampiric creature. In Jamaica she also known as the Old Higue and Haiti, she is called the Logaroo and she is the exact description of what I had witnessed.

A succubus keeps herself young by feeding sexually off of males. If she is aged then she has not fed.

This sounds familiar I'll have to go back and look in my archives about this.


QOTD

What fun! Vampire legends around the world -- yes, I'm familiar with a number of them. In Malaysia, it's flying brains (yes, really!) and in China, vampires suck your soul out through your ear!

Hag legends are very common, and unfortunately lead to the death of a lot of old women in the early stages of demential (see the European witch trials as an example.)

Tracing the lineage of the vampires is interesting -- the Caribbean region would be a mix of several African traditions, probably modified with a bit of European folklore. I haven't researched it THAT thoroughly to be able to put a lineage to it, but I think there are books out there that do.

worldwatcher!!!! how did i know what youre story would consist of!? my grandfather, who is very old. told me once about real life witches. im not talking about paganism. but real life witches that FLY. yes he says back then, in mexico that they were called ''baals'' see if you can find any history on witches and the word baals. the told me that they were witches who sucked blood at night out of the childrens ears. hey your story watcher is not a fictional one, let it be known. because my grandfather doesnt lie and HAS came in contact with these balls of fire that fly. funny coincidence cuz once you mentioned that youre grandfather saw a ball of fire leaving the house i knew that youd mention she was sucking the blood outta children! interesting coincidence! and thanks for posting this up.

I wonder where these all stories about vampires originate ?....I wonder if people EVER were that stupid to belive something like some of the stories.

I find particulary funny, that a vampire would pick some rice off the ground, just to count them.

But they are fun to read sometimes.......

BF.

lol fang. youre someone who hasnt witnessed much. dont come out at night?

thanks for adding that bit about the mexican vampires topsecretombomb (lol that was mouthful)
I have heard of Baal, but always associated the name with babylonian or sumerian legends never connected it to mexico, i'll have to do some research on that.

I have heard that mexican version of the vampire were called tlahuelpuchi. I didn't know they shared the characteristics of the old hag...but i believe your what your grandfather says.

thanks alot worldwatcher, thanks for posting youre story. i really enjoyed it and ive been wanting to connect with certain people about these odd occurances for a while. at least we both know they exist eh?

Hi,

This is an interesting discussion. I'm actually doing a doctoral dissertation on what the psychological literature calls isolated sleep paralysis, which is related to the the phenomenon known as "old higue" in some parts of the Caribbean, "witch-riding" in the southern U.S., and simply "hag" in Bermuda. If anyone has had this experience in the Boston area and is interested in participating in a short interview regarding their experiences, please email me at [email protected]. I'll be running this study through August 2004 and there is monetary compensation. Thanks!

I am from the caribean, Puerto Rico and I had never seen has known any stories like that, vodoo, santeria, spirits, ghost seances yes I grew up with that, my brother and his friends spended a nigth at the yunke (the national forest) looking for the chupa cabras all they saw was a group of american reaserchers going inside one of their labs in the forest with what it seemed animals in cages, they got caught and told that they were not allowed on the facility grounds, my brother and his friends were only 14 and 15 at the time, that was back in the 70,s. We used to have a lot of weird thinks going on at the national forest.

yeah but places change after time.

when my grandfather told me about the ''baals'' this was like when he was younger too. because he told me he was with his father as well. who is my great grandfather.

these things have been around since we have.

Baal (Bael) is also the name of the number 1 demon in the heirarchy of goetia, i'm sure it is somehow relivent to the stories your father told you.

i've also heard of counting things being used as a distraction for supernatural beings many times

[Edited on 20-5-2004 by Strigoi]

I found some cool info about some of the questions raised here, and I will share it all as I get to it.

First up, the "hag" and "fireball" phenomena in the Caribbean...

Found a cool site with sooooo much info. Here is their take on the phenomena...

Some Vampire Witches of the Carribean and South America

The asema is a vampiric witch or sorcerer found in the lore of the South American country of Surinam, once a colony called Dutch Guiana. The asema was usually an old man or woman who lived undetected in a community. At night the asema takes off his or her skin and flies through the air as a ball of light, entered houses, and sucks the blood of sleeping people. One way to personally protect oneself against the asema is to consume garlic or cerain other herbs which make one's blood taste unpleasant to the asema . A way to prevent an asema from entering a home is to place a sesame seeds or rice grains mixed with the nails of a ground owl before the entrances. The asema is compelled to count the seeds or grains but each time it inadvertently picks up an owl's nail it lets go off all the seeds or grains it had counted and is forced to start over again. If the dawn comes while the asema is so occupied, the sunlight kills him or her. The ultimate way to kill an asema is to pore salt or pepper on the skin that he or she leaves behind at night. This shrinks the skin, and, when the asema returns to it near dawn, he or she can no longer fit into it.

Belief in the asema is an import from slaves brought to Surinam from West Africa. It seems likely that the name asema is derived from the Dahomean name asiman . But the compulsion of the asema to count seeds or grains might be due to European influence. The undead vampires in European lore often have such an obsession. But then such an obsessian can be found to attributed to vampires in Asian lore as well.

In the lore of Caribbean islands there is the loogaroo and the soukoyan . Both have close similarities to the asema In the lore of Caribbean islands there is the loogaroo and the soukoyan. Both have close similarities to the asema .

The name loogaroo occurs in islands or, in the case of Haiti, part of an island that was colonized by the French who imported African slaves to do the hard labor on their plantations. The name loogaroo is obviously derived from loups garou , a French name for the werewolf which literally means "wolf-man" and was originally applied in France to werewolves. But the loogaroo exists primarily in Afro-Carribean lore and no doubt is more closely a derivative of West African vampiric witches such as the obayifu and the asiman.

According to the Voodoo lore of Haiti, the loogaroo is most often a woman. At night she frees herself of her skin by rubbing a magical concoction made of herbs on her body. She then hides her skin in a cool place where it will not shrink. She then makes certain movements which cause turkey wings to sprout on her back. Flames shoot out from her armpits and anus. She then flies through the thatch of her hut. Flying though the sky, she leaves a luminous trail behind her. She sucks the blood of her victims, most often infants and children, and causes them to have illnesses which are sometimes fatal. To enter a dwelling where her little victim lies, the Haitian loogaroo takes the form of a cockroach or some other insect. She may also insert a long straw through the thatch composing the walls of a dwelling until it rests against her victim's cheek. She then sucks the blood through the straw. Her nocturnal flights for prey occur on the 7'th, 13'th, and 17'th of each month.

On the island of Granada, the loogaroo is also most often a woman. She flies each night. In her natural human form, she goes to a silk-cotton-tree. Botanists call this tree by the Latin name bombax ceiba . But in Granada it is known as the Devil's tree or the Jumbie tree. There the woman gets out of her skin which she then carefully folds and hides. Then the loogaroo transforms into a ball of light and flies through the air. The loogaroo in Granada often drinks the blood of adults, causing them to wake up tired and languid. This witch or sorcerer can pass through any tiny crack to get into dwelling. But if enough grains of rice or sand are scattered around the outside of the dwelling, he or she is compelled to count them until dawn.

The soukoyan is part of the lore of the islands of Dominica and Trinidad. According to one account from Trinidad, the soukoyan is much like the loogaroo of Granada. The soukoyan leaves his or her skin at night in a cool place and flies off at night in the form of a ball of light to drink the blood of humans. In one account there is added the detail that she can be destroyed if salt is poured on her skin to shrink it. In an account from Dominica that I've read, the loogaroo is most often a man.

I know it is a lot, so I will split the rest up. Enjoy the read. You can find all of this at Strigoi's Vault

More soon,

Ham

That old woman type of vampire, according to the site, probably had its origins in Africa, with some European influences (like the aversion to salt, grains, seeds, adn other tiny things).

Here is some stuff from the African legends.

The Obayifu and the Asiman of West Africa

According to Ashanti lore in Ghana, the obayifu is a witch who leaves her body at night in the form of a small ball of light which flies through the air and sucks the blood of sleeping people, especially infants and children. The Dahomeans have essentially the same belief, but they call this type of witch the asiman.

That stuff is from the same site, as is the stuff on grains/seeds I will post next.

Okay, this is the last of it for now. The rest of the huge site is something you guys can read for yourselves. This part deals with the compulsion of some vampires to count grains and other small objects. This should be exciting because many of the Caribbean vamps were affected by this compulsion.

Compulsions Regarding Grains, Seeds, Knots, etc.

In Europe, in China, in India, and in South America there was found the practice of using such things as seeds, grains of rice or millet, pebbles, and iron filings as a means to hamper undead vampires or blood sucking sorcerers and witches.

But here the vampire is not repelled or pierced by the objects. Rather he is compelled to either eat them or to count them one at a time.

In Eastern and Central Europe following a burial of a person who might become undead, seeds and organic grains were sometimes placed in the coffin, in the grave, over the grave, on the paths from the cemetery to the homes of the living, and on the thresholds and roofs of the homes.

In his book Mythologie du Vampire en Roumanie (1981), Adriene Cremene gives an anecdote from Romania where the relatives of a dead person would leave the cemetery after his burial, throwing grains of millet in the path and saying "Let the strigoi eat each year one grain of millet and not eat the hearts of his family."

In Macedonian Folklore by G. F. Abbot (1903), there is a case described where a vampire hunter lured a vampire (vrykolakis) into a barn where there was a heap of millet grains. The vampire became so pre-occupied with counting these grains that the vampire hunter was able to nail him to a wall without any resistance on the part of the vampire. Abbot also wrote that some Macedonians protected themselves from a possible vampire following a burial by placing mustard seeds on the roof and thorny plants outside the doors�

�An interesting variation of the belief occurs in Afro-American lore in the South American country of Surinam. Here, the asema is a blood sucking sorcerer or witch who leave his or her skin at night and flies off in the form that appears to be a ball of light. One way to prevent the night-flying asema from entering a home is to place a sesame seeds or rice grains mixed with the nails of a ground owl before the entrances. The asema is compelled to count the seeds or grains, but each time it inadvertently picks up an owl's nail it lets go off all the seeds or grains it had counted and is forced to start over again.

In Central Europe, nets were sometimes placed in the coffin in the belief that if the corpse became undead., then the vampire would be compelled to either untie all the knots or to count them�

�I don't know of any examples of such beliefs being used in modern fiction. But sometimes I wonder if there was not a second pun intended when the The Count , a vampire who specializes in counting, was invented for the entertaining and educating television program for young children, Sesame Street.

That stuff and more can be found here: Strigoi's Vault

I thought it was some cool info. Enjoy the site

Ham

Oh yeah, and go hereAsian Vampire similar to Caribbean one to check out a vamp that is similar in some way to those in Caribbean!

This is exactly what my grandfather had witnessed. The same he defended himself from. They came at night, and they were also blazing with fire he told me. With that a head of a normal aged woman. Weird.

wow!! thanks for all the additional info, much appreciated
and great link Hamburglar

my granny just celebrated her 84th birthday on Sunday, some of her friends are coming over next weekend, so I am going to pick their brains for more stories. I love the tales they tell about our culture, I'm sure I'll have more to add soon.

thanks again for keeping this going

I was looking through some of the older threads and found this one to be really intresting. I never knew the caribbean and surrounding areas had vampire myths. Thats something to look into. Worldwatcher, maybe you have gathered more information on this topic over the years?

thanks for the revival, sometimes I overlook the many threads I've started here.

I don't have much new to add to the discussion other than additional "word of mouth" stories from my elders of old time neighbors being the "old higue" in Guyana or the "soucouyant" in Trinidad.

One recent story I heard from woman who currently still lives in Trinidad and claims one of her grandsons were the focus of a soucouyant's attention sounded very much like sleep paralysis the way the recounted the story.

oh and another thing I remember from the discussions and I don't know if I mentioned in this thread before or not, but another name for these female vampires in the carribbean is "fire rass" being that she takes the form of a ball of fire after she sheds her skin.