Russian Carrier Group Heads for Mediterranean!

What is it with everyone??? America has Carrier fleets, we the British have one. Even the french have got one, so why can't Russia send it's fleets anywhere it wants in International waters without everyone thinking there's something sinister happening...

I say good luck to them




Peace.....

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I think you are entirely overestimating the deterring affect such a (see uncertain) move by Russia would have on NATO. For one thing we would also deploy troops and assets, once again in neighboring countries (particularly Albania). NATO soldiers will also take and hold key positions in Kosovo while US financially and military backed rebel forces led by both military special forces and civilian intelligence attacks Russian soldiers and interests. That's assuming we don't preempt any such deployment with our own forces. Anyway, one thing is for certain, at least to me, I don't foresee either side backing out and simply leaving, no matter what happens. You may think Russia cares more about the situation than NATO but this is now considered out backyard and everyone will be well aware of the political, historical, military and strategic implications of pulling out.

Westy, do you remember the `99 Kosovo War?

At the end of the air campaign, Russian forces were flown into the main airport in Kosovo ahead of the only ground forces NATO dared send into the province, the British Army including the Parachute Regiment and Royal Marines.

There was a stand off at the airport for a number of day's between Para's and untill a political settlement was reached.

The US was dead against sending in any ground forces, especially once Russia got involved and it was a British expedition into the province in the first day's and weeks. The Us forces that did enter the province stayed in the SE area of the province and did not venture far.

So no, there is no over estimating the deterrent affects of the Russian presence there, as it already worked in 1999.

On topic:

I thought the Kuznetzov was off the coast of Norway?

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

reply to post by stumason


Do you also remember who the POTUS was during the late 90's? Not the same people with the mind set that are in charge now; I can assure you of that. The whole military, political, public mindset is not the same, hence not comparable. I stand by my assertion that such a move by Russia would not have that level of impact upon NATO forces.

reply to post by WestPoint23


So you believe that if Russian ground forces intervene in Kosovo on Serbia's behalf, NATO would not hold back from firing upon the Russian troops and engaging in direct combat with them? Is NATO going to risk war with Russia over some run-down province of guerillas on the far outskirts of Europe?

Every nation and military has its priorities. And Kosovo is not the first, second, or even third main priority of the US and NATO. So you think that the U.S. will jeopardize its main priorities (War on Terror, Iraq, Afganistan, Iran, North Korea, market oil prices) for Kosovo?

And lets say Russia can't win a differect confrontation with NATO, and retreats. It can still sour things up for the US to such an extent that its entire foreign policy will take a major hit. Russia is able to:

1. influence world oil prices
2. influence Iran's nuclear program
3. sell Iran and Syria the newest S-400 air-defence hardware
4. support the Iraqi and Afgani insurgency
5. form a military alliance with India, China, and Iran

These factors alone, regardless of the capabilities of Russian military in a case that such a confrontation would happen, would be a major deterrent for NATO and U.S. to engage with Russian troops. NATO may be headstrong and not want to lose any ground, but there is common sense to everything (which prevails from time to time) - and in this case common sense would be to avoid confrontation with Russia. Any other action on behalf of NATO would be simply idiotic.



But common sense also says that Russia will not intervene in Kosovo, as it has more to lose than to win from such intervention, and this is looking more likely every day. Perhaps this is nothing more than an exercise, and a veiled message to the U.S.

So let me get this straight?
NATO is all FOR siding with the separatists in Kosovo?

Originally posted by Daedalus3
So let me get this straight?
NATO is all FOR siding with the separatists in Kosovo?

Yeah. Because, apparently, the Serbs were "ethnic cleansing". Even though it was the Albanian KLA that started the war against Serbia.....

We bombed hundreds of dummy tanks and obsolete aircraft for weeks as a result.

If we were really lucky, we'd hit an occasional Chinese diplomat. Really showed them Serbs the might of NATO.....

(That was sarcasm by the way. The NATO bombing campaign in Kosovo was a dismal failure and showed that with all the High tech gadgetry at our disposal, we only managed to kill 256 Serbian soldiers and a dozen tanks. They fooled us with mock-ups of tanks, fires on hills to simulate hidden positions and laid the obsolete Migs in their inventory out on the tarmac whilst hiding their good ones in bunkers. Hence, why we switched to bombing Serbia itself. Power stations and Chinese Embassies are easier to hit)

Originally posted by Daedalus3
So let me get this straight?
NATO is all FOR siding with the separatists in Kosovo?

Well seeing how Albanian are the separatists I am referring to.

Hi everybody!

Russia, of course, will seek to re-establish its role as a world power and will profit from any circumstance to show and protect its interests...

The ethnic cleansing in Kosovo was real; one million people were forcibly driven out of their homes, scores of people were slaughtered, raped and burned in the middle of Europe at the dawn of the new century.

Albanians were the only non-slavic ethnicity living in their own homeland, Kosovo, which was officially handed over to Serbia in 1913 by the Great Powers of Europe.

Kosovo is a land much contested by the serbs, as it is part of their nationalistic mythology going back to the 14th century, where a coalition of Balkan princes led by a serbian king fought off the occupying Ottoman Turks.

(I am forced to say these things in retrospective, because much misleading information is being inseminated in this forum).

The genocide and the ethnic cleansing of 1999 is only the apex of a long, sad and inhumane history that albanians have endured under the rule of Serbia as second-class citizens, "humanoids with a tail," as they were called by their co-citizens of Tito's Yugoslavia.

There was method to this madness; serb academia was involved together with the state in trying to find ways how to "sterilize" albanians, as the latter were "multiplying like rabbits." Large numbers of albanian population have been forced to exile in Turkey and other European countries. Albanians were like the black slaves in America time ago; it is only natural that they want to secede from their torturers, especially since they have been forcefully and artificially conjoined to a nation with which they do not share language, culture and mentality.

It is easy to blame the victim and call albanians "separatists... "NATO and EU, after standing idle while half a million of bosnians were slaughtered by the serbs (slav on slav crimes), could not do the same in the case of Kosovo, that's why they intervened.

And another thing: Serbia has NOT offered Kosovo political independence. Any attempt to present Serbia as "generous," does a great disservice and insults human intelligence in multiple levels.

If anyone is interested in what I have said so far, feel free to do research for the events that led to the actual standoff. (Make sure the sources are neither albanian, nor serbian. And for that matter, not russian, either.)

I will do my best to answer your questions (if any), hoping I will have the time to supply links needed to illustrate the arguments, being in the midst of my final exams and whatnot.

Cheers!

LT

Here is a link for those who are interested to know more...

www.nytimes.com...#

Here is an update, sounds like they are honing their skills, but for what?
It doesn't sound like a very impressive group, only if they used it in a surprise situation would it be effective, until found and wiped out!

Russian Carrier Exercise

Here is another article from the Moscow Times that puts a different spin on things, in a nutshell saying the Russians are way to week and that they are trying to rebuild without stirring the attention of the West and pacify domestic nationalism!

Moscow Times Article

[edit on 12/16/07 by mel1962]

Originally posted by losttext
after standing idle while half a million of bosnians were slaughtered by the serbs

Eh ?

The official UN death toll has been recently revised from 100k to 93k on all sides. A tragic, unecessary, fratricidal Civil War but it could have been a lot worse.

The US-UK-Israeli-Saudi supported Wahhabi Islamists of Alija Izetbegovic had casualties of around 35,000 (no offcial mil/civ breakdown as yet) but you forget to mention that these fanatics fought against everyone:

The Serbs, the moderate Yugoslav muslims of Fikret Abdic (allied to Serbia) and even the treacherous Croatians who tend to change uniform whichever way the wind blows.

Where in Heavens name did you get 500,000 "killed by Serbs". You are just being silly. I thought that the NATO Pact propaganda of the 1990s has been so thoroughly debunked by now that even zombie CNN viewers know that the pretext for attacking Serbia had nothing to do with the "plight of the Muslims" (read Wahabis and muslim Albanians) who were the NATO Pact-designated "useful idiots" used to break up Yugoslavia.

At the end of the day, the Albanians already have a country. It is called Albania. If they don't like Serbia they can always go back to where they came from. Annexing 15% of Serbia through the biological bomb of illegal immigration is not legal under international law.