At the end of the day, it all looks like a fairy tale and mass histeria

I agree, just not enough STRONG evidence, inconclusive at best in my opinion

reply to post by Breadfan


hey breadfan!

just look at the amazing proof zogron and john leer have on there part of the website.! if this does'nt open your eyes nothing will!!!!!

Originally posted by Breadfan
Actually, I expressed myself wrongly, I didn't wanna imply those miracles were real (I doubt they were).
All I wanted to emphasize is the fact that Jesus IS a historical person.
We could -theorize- he never existed but you gotta admit it would be a long stretch.

Actually not at all. If he existed, there would be some type of evidence that he existed. However, Rabbi Wise did reveal the name of a "messiah" named Yeshua earlier this year.

www.israeltoday.co.il...

On the other side, UFO, greys etc? You can't compare them with Jesus or even Mohammed. The difference is obvious: 3 billion people believe they existed and worship their legacy, while on the other hand, a handful of abductees and their cult followers claim Greys, Draconians etc. are real.

Could those 3 billion people be wrong? Of course. But if THEY could be mislead, what would you say for the UFO camp?

You make no sense. The number of people who have been abducted, seen a UFO, or had some type of experience is in the thousands.

And if you do some research, you'd notice that the Mayan civilizations, the ancient Egyptians, etc. worshiped SERPENT Gods. Doesn't that make you even a little suspicious?

Scramjet76, I get what you're saying. I'm not really doubting those crafts and that they showed up in the sky and performed some really crazy stunts.
I'm talking about reptilians, greys, draconians and other species that are being so much talked about by these alleged abductees and it's just a lot harder to buy into it, regardless of possible first impressions you'd get when watching some guy re-telling his story. Once it settles down, you immediatelly start questioning it.

Of course it's hard to buy into. There are people who don't believe in astral projection or near death experiences. Some people who've experienced it were 100% skeptical before the experience, and now they're not. All it takes is an experience.

I felt the same with Mr. Greer. I was like wowed by his 2001 press conference. Then I heared he started charging people to see his UFOs, acting weird etc. It was kinda of a wakeup call for me there and a sign I should take these people with a lot more skepticism then before.

Well I don't trust Mr. Greer, but he's not the epitome of ufology.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
reply to post by Breadfan

 

Why do you think it would be a long stretch to theorize about Jesus? I asked you for proof of his existance earlier, and you have not yet provided any. Outside of the Holy Scripture, which in my opinion is the greatest work of fiction ever written, what else is there? I feel like you are insulting me when you insist he existed. The Historians you speak of are merely speculating to his existance also. They don't have any proof, either.

As for Aliens / Ufo's it's the same. So, on both subjects, it's all a matter of faith. You can choose to believe, or not.

Strickly speaking, yes. We don't have a Jesus' grave with the bones in it to prove he existed. But the very popularity of this belief (of Jesus' existance and his life) at least gives more credibility to it. You can't just put an equation symbol between Jesus as a person who most likely existed and some Draconians, Reptilians etc.

This is mostly about those beings, not about common people who have been abducted (I really believe something happened to them). But at least those common folks don't go around with the stories like Alex Collier having the whole spectrum of alien races, star systems etc. Most of them will just tell you what they felt and saw, they won't make a science fiction novel out of it.

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
Bread there is something called programming, and it affects the way people think. UFO denial was part of it for a long time.
So free yourself of any world perspective and look at the whole damn thing from all sides.

What do you mean by "programming"? I think it's quite natural for a human being to ask for proof and explanation, not just blindly believe in something for which there's no real evidence. I don't think someone programmed this into me, it's just our nature and even if it HAD been put into us, it's sure as h*ll right thing to do!

If I was really throwing away all of it, I wouldn't be hanging around this forum and spend my time here. I just feel I came to the point where I can say "Money talks, BS walks!".

So, of course I'm pissed at the people claiming to know so many things, yet they don't have a single shred of evidence to back it up.

Someone said something about Maya's worshipping serpents? Cmon, that could be anything, from alien creatures to common Earth-based snakes.

You know, Egyptians also worshipped cats, and we do have them in our homes as pets.

That's just not enough for me, pure speculation that is.

Then we go back to Jesus, he as well could be a pure speculation, but with so many people believing in it, it kinda gives it a slightly better odds of being close to truth.

Originally posted by mugwumpumumaga

hey breadfan!

just look at the amazing proof zogron and john leer have on there part of the website.! if this does'nt open your eyes nothing will!!!!!

With all due respect to Mr. Lear, in the begining I was really into his "objects on the moon" story, but then I realized I see nothing in those photos, just some wishful thinking. It was a big dissapointment for me and since then and I'm not gonna bother about it anymore.

I do however, want to thank Mr. Lear for bringing me to this forum and increasing my interest for the whole UFO thing. I listened to his CC interview and that's what brought me here.

Originally posted by Breadfan
But the very popularity of this belief (of Jesus' existance and his life) at least gives more credibility to it. You can't just put an equation symbol between Jesus as a person who most likely existed and some Draconians, Reptilians etc.

There are millions of people in Australia who believe that Santa Claus exists - he's very popular, especially now. Yeah, most are probably children... still, do you get my point? There may have been a person who spawned the legend of Santa, but that legend has grown in to some very fantastical claims. Probably very much like Jesus and all of the snowballed lies that surrounded his myth.

But at least those common folks don't go around with the stories like Alex Collier having the whole spectrum of alien races, star systems etc. Most of them will just tell you what they felt and saw, they won't make a science fiction novel out of it.

Lots of common folk read stories supposedly written by men acting as conduits for god's word, where they wrote what they saw, felt, believed and feared, etc... In fact it has all been collected in an ancient fiction novel called the Bible, which is contrary to your opinion expressed above.

'Belief' in aliens/ET/UFOs is not the same as 'belief/faith' in religious dogma. There is no equivalence relation here where you can compare the two.

Originally posted by tezzajw
I think you're confusing evidence with proof.

There's plenty of evidence to support the theory for UFOs belonging to ET. Skeptics choose to ignore that evidence, or to try and attribute more mundane explanations to it.

Ok, where is it. Where can i find plenty of evidence .. you know .. the real stuff that will shut my debunker mouth up ...

And don't get me wrong, I really DO want to be convinced..

Proof of ET, at this stage, is probably a personal decision that you have to make yourself, based upon the amount of evidence that you know is true.

Oh.. so much for your "There's plenty of evidence" statement .. ??
I guess you just contradicted your self a bit there?

Some people living on Earth KNOW that ET exists, as they have seen him, here on Earth. I have met a couple of those people. Don't try and tell them that what they saw was not what they saw, especially when you were not there to experience it for yourself. Personally, I KNOW that they know what they saw and I have no reason to doubt them.
[edit on 7-12-2007 by tezzajw]

Who is "Him" anyways ? What you personally believe is one thing, we still need those "plenty of evidence" things to show up. Could you point it out for us?

Originally posted by Breadfan

And what makes YOU have a clue, ie. what would make YOU right and them wrong for simply not believing in it? See, both you and me WANT to believe in aliens visiting our planet, while the rest of the population is not really into it, as this subject as well as any other religion out there, requires a strong belief and some people want little more then that.

I'm not calling anyone wrong because it really doesn't matter to me what the majority of folk think, if indeed it is a majority. But the existance of the stuff we're talking about has been proven to me, though I can't prove it to you. And it's not a faith thing, it's very real. I don't want to believe in aliens from outer space, (but I do find the whole mystery very exciting and scary). Whatever it is I'm not sure if it comes from there either. I know it's there because I've seen a UFO that I'm 100% positive wasn't man made, though I could be totally wrong. I've seen a few things actually. And if it was man made then they're as magical to us advanced folk as a working telly would be if you took it back to the stone age. And if it's all a man made phenomenon then I demand (as we all should) that it's shared with the rest of civilisation and put to better use.Also, I've met plenty of the "hysterical" folk who have seen "aliens". See, I'm back to the quotation marks again because even though I know something happened and something was experienced I still don't know what it is. But it is a big deal. I disagree with the -you've no proof so let's not discuss it- stance.

Originally posted by Breadfan
Both sceptic and true believer don't have evidence to completely back their claims BUT probability is on the side of the sceptic:

I think it's more subjective than that and really down to personal opinion and my opinion is that probability is on the side of the folk making their eyewitness claims. Minus the freaks of course.



[edit on 8-12-2007 by wigit]

Originally posted by tep200377
Oh.. so much for your "There's plenty of evidence" statement .. ??
I guess you just contradicted your self a bit there?

No contradiction at all. Two people can be shown the same evidence. One may decide that it is proof of one thing, the other person may decide the contrary.

What you choose to believe based upon the evidence that you read, is your choice.

Here's a tip for you: You're typing in an Aliens/UFO forum that has pinned links to some of the better cases. Try reading the evidence in some of those cases. Then, why don't you try and type the words "ufo alien evidence" in Google and see what you get. It's ok, I really don't expect you to believe any of it to be proof. That's your personal choice to make.

What you personally believe is one thing, we still need those "plenty of evidence" things to show up. Could you point it out for us?

Pointed out, as noted above. All that you need to do is to read the evidence in the cases that you will find by using a few keyword search terms.

I expect that you won't want to look for yourself and that you'll rely on people spoon feeding you information, so I'll let you know one of my personal favourite cases; Zamora in New Mexico. Type it in and look it up. It involved physical trace evidence and small aliens being sighted by a police officer. Another favourite is the Bentwaters AFB in Rendlesham Forest. More evidence of something beyond this Earth. Similarly, a local case close to me, Valentich being abducted, without a trace, with witnesses on the shore seeing the green light that was buzzing his plane. There's some great evidence right there. Dismiss it any way you like, as it's only evidence, not proof. Please note the distinct difference that I made between evidence and proof.

Your skeptical nature to quality evidence is exactly the attitude that allows the obfuscation and the lie to be perpetuated. But, that's ok, I know what I know. It's not a belief to me, as I don't need blind faith to cling to my facts.

Originally posted by tezzajw
There are millions of people in Australia who believe that Santa Claus exists - he's very popular, especially now. Yeah, most are probably children... still, do you get my point? There may have been a person who spawned the legend of Santa, but that legend has grown in to some very fantastical claims. Probably very much like Jesus and all of the snowballed lies that surrounded his myth.

santa clause didnt have disciples. niether where his believers persecuted. also what you are saying is like saying santa exists and those that dont believe in him are programmed not to.

This is specifically for those that believe that Jesus never existed: show us proof that will make us go WOW YOU ARE RIGHT that he never existed. Also show that the Bible is fictional. if not then I see no reason for you to disrespect by calling it lies and myths. I am not saying that I believe 100 percent of everything it says but when it refers to something several times throughout itself them you have to wonder.

Originally posted by drflux
This is specifically for those that believe that Jesus never existed: show us proof that will make us go WOW YOU ARE RIGHT that he never existed. Also show that the Bible is fictional. if not then I see no reason for you to disrespect by calling it lies and myths. I am not saying that I believe 100 percent of everything it says but when it refers to something several times throughout itself them you have to wonder.

That's like trying to prove Unicorns don't exist. You'd have to be everywhere on this planet simultaneously. I was not here to confirm if he did or did not exist, but if he did, don't you think there'd be some type of evidence? A death warrant, a grave, anything? We don't really have anything that supports a person named Jesus Christ existed and was crucified besides the Holy Bible. But as I posted earlier, Rabbi Wise did discover the name of a messiah named Yeshua. In my opinion, JC was a composite character created by the Catholic church. Of course, I could be wrong.

reply to post by GeeGee


I have known that "Yeshua" is the name of the "Messiah" as you say, for years. i knew a rabbi-turned-christian that used to preach to a church i used to go to (force at the time).His family was one of the hebrew families that didnt go to isreal after world war II. He used JC and Yeshua interchangeably. He was one of the most powerful spiritual people I had ever seen at a church. The link that you posted before explains this. It has something to do with the translation.