At the end of the day, it all looks like a fairy tale and mass histeria

I do believe there is life outside this Earth. There's no doubt about it in my mind. But does that life visit Earth? I don't know. We have so many articles, theories, people "in the know" like Collier and other, but at the end of the day, the cold undisputable fact remains: we have no solid proof of any alien visiting our planet.

That's the fact. You can try kick it with your arms and legs, spit on it, shoot it with a gun..but it'll stay.

The best we have is a blurry video or picture of a UFO we can theorise wheter it's some secret US aircraft, or weather baloon or maybe an alien for some Zeta Reticuly fairy tale, or maybe those are Draconians or maybe..well, you know where I'm getting here.

Take this post of mine, not as a mean to directly attack this Alien UFO cult for fun or someone's paying me to do that, but rather as a reaction of a frustrated human being who wants to believe but is given nothing in return.

Who has any right to come here and say "Aliens exist, but God and religions are just a joke." if he himself has no evidence to back his claims?

Yeah, to be honest, earth religions are IMO full of crap and are meant to manipulate people as if we're cattle that needs to be brought in order.

But cmon, we at least had Jesus for a fact who miracoulosly cured people, we had Mohammed who was allegedaly illiterate but was grabbed by an angel in one of the caves and he just out of the blue started telling him all the stuff we now have in Koran.

But aliens, star systems, ships hidden inside comets?

My question is, the bottom line, call it whatever you want, when will we have a solid proof of aliens visiting Earth?

I'm not teasing anyone here, just asking a legimitate question, presuming they ARE visiting Earth. So what's the deal here?

As the title of this topic says, at the end of the day, when u summarise things, see what's on the table, it looks like a fairy tale and mass histeria rapped inside the interesting interviews of alleged alien abductees or manipulators claiming they've been flying around in alien spaceships but of course, without single evidence.

I've been thinking about these people, like Alex Collier and the others.

These guys are either:

a) Telling truth
b) Seriously demented
c) Knowingly spreading lies

As for the b), it could be anything. He looks normal and he talks normal? That's what makes us hang on to their stories. If b) is the case, it may be possible they had some serious RL issues, traumas or whatever that made them create this unique world of theirs that would make them help find some sense.

As for the c), good actors, real profesionals.
As for the a), if they were telling truth..well, we come back again to the "no evidence" part..

You tell me, what should one belive at the end?

[edit on 7-12-2007 by Breadfan]

I'd just follow my instincts. What if a member of your family came to you in hysterics and told you a story of an alien contact that had just happened to them? What if the story was full of detail and you tried to trip them up with questions but they stuck to their story and didn't change a bit? Methinks you'd believe them though you still wont know what happened, whodunnit, or how it was done.Personally I've no doubt that folk are being "abducted" by "aliens" and that UFOs (some of them) are exotic looking/behaving "vehicles" that weren't man made in a military/industrial hangar somewhere. I think there's a high number of "believers" like me too who use the quote marks in everything they say about the subject but leave them out in their typing because it's a bother. So when I talk about aliens and UFOs I really mean "aliens" and "ufos". If you know what I mean.I think it does look like fairy-tale and mass hysteria to a great number of folk but that's because they haven't a clue. I don't include myself in that number and I think that number is getting smaller.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by wigit]

With regards to point C in your post:

I think at least 90% of stuff brought forward by witnesses/abductees/contactees is false (intentional or not).

What I don't get is how people intentionally fabricate and distribute false reports/information/stories. What do they get out of it? Most are quickly shot down and exposed for who they are but these are the people that ruin this whole field. It's the whole "cry wolf" thing.

I really can't even begin to understand why they do it (I'm obviously omitting those who do it for financial gain). Surely it can't be for attention? Attention, on the internet? Er, yeah. The only result is anger, frustration and a waste of our time and resources.

I'm inclined to say that knowingly and purposefully distributing false information in such a field is of pure evil intent.

Double post.

Why do these double posts keep occuring? That would require either the submitting form to post to the posting php file twice or the posting php file to run the insert query twice? How is that happening?

[edit on 7-12-2007 by Comatose]

reply to post by Breadfan


Thank you Jesus. Oh wait I don't believe in him either.

It's a combination of B and C.

Originally posted by wigit
I'd just follow my instincts. What if a member of your family came to you in hysterics and told you a story of an alien contact that had just happened to them? What if the story was full of detail and you tried to trip them up with questions but they stuck to their story and didn't change a bit? Methinks you'd believe them though you still wont know what happened, whodunnit, or how it was done.

That's a good point and it made me think. How would I react? Well, the same I would react to one of the posters here posting their abduction experience.
The only real difference would be, since it's my fammily member in question, it would take a lot longer period of time for me to start doubting his/her story and try to attribute it to something else, not supernatural/alien-based.

The thing is, people constantly need to believe in something. That's it.
As for my Jesus, Mohammed reference, well, of course, we can quaestion lots of stuff written about them in the holy books..but they did exist and this is what I was actually referring to (unlike crashed saucers, alien bodies etc).

I think it does look like fairy-tale and mass hysteria to a great number of folk but that's because they haven't a clue. I don't include myself in that number and I think that number is getting smaller.

And what makes YOU have a clue, ie. what would make YOU right and them wrong for simply not believing in it? See, both you and me WANT to believe in aliens visiting our planet, while the rest of the population is not really into it, as this subject as well as any other religion out there, requires a strong belief and some people want little more then that.

Both sceptic and true believer don't have evidence to completely back their claims BUT probability is on the side of the sceptic:

I can't proove him aliens are visiting Earth and he can't prove me they're not BUT the real truth is more on his side, simply because most of us in our lifetime are NOT going to see any alien in person, a spaceship or anything like that.

reply to post by Breadfan


Do you have any solid proof that Jesus ever existed? I'd like to see it if you do. I hope it's more than the Holy Scripture.

Anyway, both Jesus and the people you mention on your list are all money makers. That's all there is to either in my opinion. There isn't actual proof of Jesus and there isn't any for aliens and ufo's either.

Wow, you believe Jesus existed and he actually performed "miracles", and yet you have the nerve to say these people are delusional, hysterical, and telling fairy tales?

Talk about irony.

most people dont argue the existence of Jesus. i find this a surprise that you dont know that most historians agree that Jesus was real. he was a man had a mom dad brothers a tomb and written first-hand accounts in history about him though at the time his significance was not known.

reply to post by Breadfan

The best we have is a blurry video or picture of a UFO we can theorise wheter it's some secret US aircraft, or weather baloon

Breadfan there are so many threads on this same topic. Read a few books to get a better idea of the phenomenon. We know that not all the reports are balloons or secret US craft. It's been beat to death in this forum.

To answer in short one part of your question... The reason they are not all man-made is based on reports of otherwordly performance. It really takes an enormous amount of energy to move a massive object like a UFO at those types of speeds. We just can't get that type of performance out of chemical explosions.

Originally posted by Breadfan
The thing is, people constantly need to believe in something. That's it.

I don't think that's true for everyone.

Both sceptic and true believer don't have evidence to completely back their claims BUT probability is on the side of the sceptic.

I think you're confusing evidence with proof.

There's plenty of evidence to support the theory for UFOs belonging to ET. Skeptics choose to ignore that evidence, or to try and attribute more mundane explanations to it.

Proof of ET, at this stage, is probably a personal decision that you have to make yourself, based upon the amount of evidence that you know is true.

Some people living on Earth KNOW that ET exists, as they have seen him, here on Earth. I have met a couple of those people. Don't try and tell them that what they saw was not what they saw, especially when you were not there to experience it for yourself. Personally, I KNOW that they know what they saw and I have no reason to doubt them.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by tezzajw]

Originally posted by drflux
most people dont argue the existence of Jesus. i find this a surprise that you dont know that most historians agree that Jesus was real. he was a man had a mom dad brothers a tomb and written first-hand accounts in history about him though at the time his significance was not known.

Most Americans don't argue that a supernatural God created the universe in seven days either, does that mean it's true?

There is no proof that Jesus ever existed. It's not a "common fact" at all.

I only said Jesus was a real man. as for his miracles im not sure because i wasnt there. i didnt say God created the earth in seven days (though i believe that time is a concept that would not apply to God).

Also since when are most "americans" historians. i said historians because they actually research. they know what they talk about unlike most americans (i did say most not all). the main people that started the theory that Jesus wasnt real werent historians but men of logic and science. and the unexplained cannot be explained by our logic.

Originally posted by drflux
I only said Jesus was a real man. as for his miracles im not sure because i wasnt there. i didnt say God created the earth in seven days (though i believe that time is a concept that would not apply to God).

Also since when are most "americans" historians. i said historians because they actually research. they know what they talk about unlike most americans (i did say most not all). the main people that started the theory that Jesus wasnt real werent historians but men of logic and science. and the unexplained cannot be explained by our logic.

I wasn't arguing about the part where you talked about historians, I was arguing where you said "most people don't argue the existence of JC".

I'm convinced that the person named Jesus Christ did not exist, however I am convinced that he was a composite character.

www.jesusneverexisted.com...

oh in that case i believe that he was a mystical being.

but like they said in family guy "his abilities might have been exaggerated" -stewy (i dont believe this statement above: its just funny)

Originally posted by GeeGee
Wow, you believe Jesus existed and he actually performed "miracles", and yet you have the nerve to say these people are delusional, hysterical, and telling fairy tales?

Talk about irony.

Actually, I expressed myself wrongly, I didn't wanna imply those miracles were real (I doubt they were).
All I wanted to emphasize is the fact that Jesus IS a historical person.
We could -theorize- he never existed but you gotta admit it would be a loong stretch.

On the other side, UFO, greys etc? You can't compare them with Jesus or even Mohammed. The difference is obvious: 3 billion people believe they existed and worship their legacy, while on the other hand, a handful of abductees and their cult followers claim Greys, Draconians etc. are real.

Could those 3 billion people be wrong? Of course. But if THEY could be mislead, what would you say for the UFO camp?

Scramjet76, I get what you're saying. I'm not really doubting those crafts and that they showed up in the sky and performed some really crazy stunts.
I'm talking about reptilians, greys, draconians and other species that are being so much talked about by these alleged abductees and it's just a lot harder to buy into it, regardless of possible first impressions you'd get when watching some guy re-telling his story. Once it settles down, you immediatelly start questioning it.

I felt the same with Mr. Greer. I was like wowed by his 2001 press conference. Then I heared he started charging people to see his UFOs, acting weird etc. It was kinda of a wakeup call for me there and a sign I should take these people with a lot more scepticism then before.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Breadfan]

reply to post by Breadfan


Why do you think it would be a long stretch to theorize about Jesus? I asked you for proof of his existance earlier, and you have not yet provided any. Outside of the Holy Scripture, which in my opinion is the greatest work of fiction ever written, what else is there? I feel like you are insulting me when you insist he existed. The Historians you speak of are merely speculating to his existance also. They don't have any proof, either.

As for Aliens / Ufo's it's the same. So, on both subjects, it's all a matter of faith. You can choose to believe, or not.


[edit on 8-12-2007 by Enthralled Fan]

I tried to edit my last post to add something.....oh well. I would also like to add that I do believe in Jesus. I believe in him on faith. If I had to go on proof alone of his existance, I would never believe!

Originally posted by Breadfan

Originally posted by GeeGee
Wow, you believe Jesus existed and he actually performed "miracles", and yet you have the nerve to say these people are delusional, hysterical, and telling fairy tales?

Talk about irony.

Actually, I expressed myself wrongly, I didn't wanna imply those miracles were real (I doubt they were).
All I wanted to emphasize is the fact that Jesus IS a historical person.
We could -theorize- he never existed but you gotta admit it would be a loong stretch.

On the other side, UFO, greys etc? You can't compare them with Jesus or even Mohammed. The difference is obvious: 3 billion people believe they existed and worship their legacy, while on the other hand, a handful of abductees and their cult followers claim Greys, Draconians etc. are real.

Could those 3 billion people be wrong? Of course. But if THEY could be mislead, what would you say for the UFO camp?

Scramjet76, I get what you're saying. I'm not really doubting those crafts and that they showed up in the sky and performed some really crazy stunts.
I'm talking about reptilians, greys, draconians and other species that are being so much talked about by these alleged abductees and it's just a lot harder to buy into it, regardless of possible first impressions you'd get when watching some guy re-telling his story. Once it settles down, you immediatelly start questioning it.

I felt the same with Mr. Greer. I was like wowed by his 2001 press conference. Then I heared he started charging people to see his UFOs, acting weird etc. It was kinda of a wakeup call for me there and a sign I should take these people with a lot more scepticism then before.

[edit on 8-12-2007 by Breadfan]

Bread there is something called programming, and it affects the way people think. UFO denial was part of it for a long time.
So free yourself of any world perspective and look at the whole damn thing from all sides.

reply to post by Enthralled Fan

Flavius Josephus (37-98 CE) history book 'Antiquities of the Jews' describes Palestine in the time of Jesus. In his writings, mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."
Antiquities, Book 18, 63-64

"Convened the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish religious court / governing body). He had brought before them the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, who was called James, and some other men, whom he accused of having broken the law, and handed them over to be stoned."
Antiquities, Book 20, 200.

Tacitus did not like Christians. He said:

* Christ was executed while Tiberius was Emperor (14-37 CE).
* He was executed by order of Pontius Pilate (procurator from 26-36 CE).
* His movement had its origins in Judea.
* There were enough Christian believers at Rome by CE 64 to be made scapegoats by the Emperor Nero.

here is a link to the whole thing www.request.org.uk...

I just grabbed what fit from the link. everything else could be left up to speculation.

also i want to add that historians mostly argue things like if he had a wife, his childhood or whether other books that are not part of the bible are valid sources of information