Masonic Ritual

Corsig, please don't confuse Alan Watt with Alan Watts. They are two completely different

people. Alan Watt is an esoteric researcher into ancient religions. Now Alan Watts on the

other hand is more of a New Age philosopher that will take you on a trip to la-la land.

Its too bad they have such similar names, because sometimes when I speak of Alan Watt

people get confused and think I mean Alan Watts. Then they think I actually believe

the crap that Alan Watts has put out. Hope I haven't offended any Alan Watts fans.

Originally posted by greydawn
His grandfather was A freemason, and he himself has been asked to join freemasonry.

Aww, this is just too bad, you were doing SO well with your appeal to authority logical fallacy to try to build your case. Unfortunately for you, this guy is now discredited: no one is asked to join freemasonry.

By the way, I tried looking for something scholarly with the name Alan Watt - I failed. Couldn't find one thing...

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
Unfortunately for you, this guy is now discredited: no one is asked to join freemasonry.

Not entirely true, to be fair. A more accurate statement might be: It's not common practice for someone to be invited to join Freemasonry.

reply to post by The Axeman


Correct, extremely uncommon - and what are the chances of that uncommon scenario occurring, and then that same person just *happening* to use that fact to make himself be a credible conspiracy theorist? After all, simply being "asked" to join lends you no credibility as a conspiracy theorist (as it doesn't say anything except that you were perceived to be a good person), and people who are in that rare position would know that.

Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees:

" The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry. The whole body of the Royal and Sacerdotal Art was hidden so carefully, centuries since, in the High Degrees, as that it is even yet impossible to solve many of the enigmas which they contain. It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whoso attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain, and without any true reward violate his obligations as an Adept. Masonry is the veritable Sphinx, buried to the head in the sands heaped round it by the ages. " 3


In Morals and Dogma, Pike wrote:

" Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it....

Originally posted by Julius Ceasar
Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees

You left out the fact that Pike later retracted that, and that no serious Masonic scholars agree with Pike on that issue.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
...no serious Masonic scholars agree with Pike on that issue.

And this coming from someone who agrees with Pike on most things.

I started a thread that deals with that very topic -- check it out.

Also this one about Pike himself, along with lots of excerpts from Morals and Dogma.

Enjoy.

reply to post by The Axeman


Not to mention that even if all the masonic scholars thought Pike was right, Pike still doesn't speak for masonry. The tinfoil hat people always pick the ones which they KNOW do not represent all of the fraternity

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
The tinfoil hat people always pick the ones which they KNOW do not represent all of the fraternity

I think it's more that certain Masonic writers are somewhat cryptic in their work, and it's easy for tin-foilers to use those quotes and attribute the meanings they want them to have rather than contemplating the real meaning. Pike is one of the most widely used, therefore the most accessible.

He had a lot of stuff right, that man.

Tin-foilers usually are not contemplaters (is that even a word?!).

Originally posted by Julius Ceasar
Albert Pike explained in Morals & Dogma how the true nature of Freemasonry is kept a secret from Masons of lower degrees

Hey Julius Ceasar, on page iv of the preface of Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike, the original edition, starting with the 2nd paragraph I quote verbatim: "Everyone is entirly free to reject and dissent from whatsoever shall here in seem to him to be untrue or unsound."

It further say's and I quote verbatim: "It is only required of him to that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and give it inprejudiced judgment."

Did you happen to read this part of Morals and Dogma? Or are you just quoting from a source that you think sounds cool?

I have done my own research (as have many others in this thread apparently) and have found no credible evidence to support the theory that there are any levels, degrees, ect. in masonry leading up to the 360 degree.

To follow up my last post, there is also no evedence to support the theory that any information about masonry is kept from any master mason.

Originally posted by bigred1000
To follow up my last post, there is also no evedence to support the theory that any information about masonry is kept from any master mason.

What Pike was talking about was the Knights Templar; the quote that Julius gave comes from "Morals and Chapter" Chapter 30, concerning the 30th Degree, Knight Kadosh, a degree of Templary.

Pike believed at that time that modern Masonry came from the Knights Templar. Pike noticed that the Blue Lodge degrees didn't say anything about the Templars, but the higher degrees talked about them a lot. He then came to the conclusion that the Blue Lodge degrees guarded the Templar secret, which was revealed only in the high degrees.

It's a nice little story, but Pike's entire thesis on the matter turned out to be wrong. Pike retracted it after Gould published his "History of Freemasonry", which showed once and for all that Masonry did *not* originate with the Knights Templar, and that there were no Templar degrees or legends in Masonry until after Ramsay made his famous speech in the the early 18th century.

Originally posted by bigred1000
To follow up my last post, there is also no evedence to support the theory that any information about masonry is kept from any master mason.

This may be true, however I have heard "some" Masons say and act different. What is said to be the higher degrees of the rites only adds to confusion.
It is said there is no higher degree than a 3rd degree Master Mason, yet I have encountered and observed "some"other Masons that makes me think otherwise.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

[edit on 7-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
It is said there is no higher degree than a 3rd degree Master Mason, yet I have encountered and observed other Masons that makes me think otherwise.

Would it be safe to say that some put more importance in the appendant degrees than others then?

Intrepid, as you know the Masonic system I happen to be in seems to have a Monkey wrench stuck in its gears!
This is what RacerX and I have found. One body has commanders and such, the other has many colored caps. There are other obligations they take.
I believe this may lead "some" of those in these bodies to think they are higher then a 3rd degree Master Mason. If there is enough thinking that, It becomes reality.
It does appear the other bodies over rule the Grand Lodge in my state.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

reply to post by HDFACTORYCERTIF


I see the 'monkey' nonesense if now on this thread. I actually took the time to read some of your friend and alleged fellow Mason RacerX's posts. Many to me appeared to be anti-American and anti-government screeds and therefore it would appear that he takes his Masonic obligations as poorly as the proported 'monkey' Masons.

I have contacted Axeman as to the legitimacy of your claims, but he has yet to reply to me regarding this topic. I do, however, have another solution as I still seriously doubt these antics are transpiring and I find much of what you say to be highly specious. So therefore I propose that you submit to Axeman a copy of your current dues card as this should help support the veracity of your claims. If it matches the information you previously supplied I will grant you a very overdue appology and endeavor to help rectify the situation as well.

Augustus, I should have sent a bottle of Bourbon along with what I have sent Axe, he may need it. If the Axeman wants a dues card I will provide that to him.
Truth is hard to take, RacerX and dont know how to lie. We are hard driving business men with 3 American based companies we pay taxes, lots of taxes!
You seem to take offense at the terrible reality you have read from us. You would be in better light if you turned that hostility into a solution. If axeman wants you to have anything, thats up to him.
Axeman may have received more then he wanted to read, like I said, there is more, much more, it gets only worse.


[edit on 7-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

reply to post by HDFACTORYCERTIF


If you are detecting hostility from me it is misplaced. I only hold a very large amount of skeptisism for this entire incident and the manner in which are choosing in your atempt to rectify it. Numerous other Mason have directed you to other forums to air your greivances yet you continue to place them on a website that cateers to conspiracies.

I am certain that you are well aware of many other brothers feelings in this regard. The only analogy I can offer you, if indeed this is truly happening, is discussing ones family crisis' in the National Inquirer.

Would you care to address my concern regarding your friend RAcerX's posts in regards the government and his failure to uphold his Masonic responsibilities? I find this somewhat hypocritical in light of your touting the 'monkies' only feel the oaths and obligations are 'just words'. Does your friend feel this way as well? Why does he disregard his Masonic duty?

RacerX can only speak for himself, he is out in the field, I will let let him know of your concern.
I will let you know that RacerX hires Vets to work our projects, that aside.
I am interested in the relationship of the rites with the Blue Lodge.

I also said before, if someone wants to get the discussion going else where, make it happen, let me know, we will do it.

[edit on 7-12-2007 by HDFACTORYCERTIF]

Where can a female go to join the Freemasons?