German Official Wants nation wide Scientology Ban

Some of the quoted has been snipped.

What I say is true. I have not said enough as I am one who knew the Perkins Family.

I also know they do hunt up Class 12 auditors and go after them as I see comm from one who is attacked daily in the independent field. Some of it is due to him being in the church. It is good that not all the independents have this way of handling people. But I can see his point after reading years on the net it can get for him. He stands for not altering the tech and in time for more research. Those who alter and in the church attack him daily.

No placenta eating. Yuck, Can you say that is sick.

So the one's in the church who are in good standing often do not know what really is going on. It is rare one is talking to people on the net and not approved by the church or have a net nanny on their computer.

I had to break through that wall myself to find the independents. We were not allowed to look at the bad stuff on the net. Anything that is considered bad is defined what the church says is bad.

I speak up to say one can follow what religion one wants. I don't follow it as a religion myself even if it deals with spiritual matters.

To me a religion is blind faith in some god or gods. I doubt there is the type of God in the sky some thinks there are but if you say all of life's energy is a god I could agree with you but I rather follow the Native American's thought that one calls it the Great Spirit. I kind of like that idea.

I know about the upper levels even though I have not done them. I believe it is taken out of contest and even though it works for people one really does not have to believe that is the truth of what was. I for sure don't know.

It does not bother me to know of it. Myself when my son's dad passed I got an unspoken communication from him. It was that he was happy to have died. He had a miserable life and he was no longer in pain. I can't prove what I felt from the comm but I knew it was not my happiness.

It is often mostly subjective so one often can't prove it.

I am against the abuses of all religions. I quit talking to a Christian by my choice for that reason. She supported Bush by saying that he was sent by God to do a job. The earth is only 3000 years old and the whole bit. Bible is never wrong.

Religion has sparked many wars and yet has done a lot of good. The lot of mankind is that as well.

I know the church could do things better and they have an suppressive person running the show. I have spoken to people who have knew DM and confirmed this to be true.

It is the upper management that has gone bonkers and is running the church down. I know LRH also was human and did things that was not cool and I understand why. Funny I figured it out why by a hint LRH left in KSW-1 HCOB. I understand and I am glad I do.

I understand now and need ask no questions for I did years of research on the matter of the independents and church..

Originally posted by Mira_of_lurk0more

If what FancyLady says is true - I see the concern and I empathize.

I so hope my brother's buddy will agree to participate. He was a Level 12 or some such artificial nonsense at the time he split and had to actually escape from the Church because they came looking... more than once with a private investigator/goon... or so my understanding of it goes. I could be entirely mistaken. Do all ex-members hide or just the one's who your religion of Scientology sees as knowing too much?

Is the human placenta munching true? That's way ill'n if true but that's only my personal opinion. Others can eat what they like. I'll U2U you tomorrow after lunch eastern time but before first afternoon class to say if I can get Attila's friend to participate as an ATS member and when so you could prepare yourself to be online at the same time. I suspect if I can get him here that he may have a different perspective to offer than you or FancyLady.

Mira

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more] [/quot

And more countries should follow suit. Scientology is proven to be false, and it sucks the life out of all its members except for the ones who can openly promote it. Hubbard had even proven himself to be a con man before he even started Scientology. Any institution that preys on the vulnerability of men and women should be harshly regulated by any government in protection of it's citizens. We have agencies like the "Better Business Bureau" that can actually shut down questionable businesses with government help in fear of them negatively affecting the lives of people. I think the same sort of action should be reserved for cults or illegitimate religions.

I agree with you.

It can not act like a business and be a church. They are known to be copyright Terrorists.

The independents are attacked at times for using the tech. Alas even if they hide it it fell into the public domain in the 70's by HASI going defunct. DM found out and copyrighted it illegally and making the tech changes in it.

It could be why he rewrites the books about every ten years or so. Recopyrights them.

They use be by Author LRH and now LRH is part of the title. A lot of tricky things are being pulled for PR sake.

I am crazy for speaking out like this. I know some will never listen that there is good data there and there was a reason why LRH acted as he did at times.

Also the church is doing itself in as well because it is being lead by suppressive persons.

Those type are the one's to ruin any country, business or home to protect their fear of others doing better so they will find out what evil that SP's are doing.

The independents have their right to practice as they wish, even if it is altered tech. They just must say it is altered.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR

Now, the problem I have with scientology is the same problem I have with any organized religion. I do not feel people should pay dues. The texts should be as cheap as one can print them, or free online. I am a Christian and I was trying to become a member of a church. They require of their members to donate 10% of their income. I have always donated 10% of my income (it is Biblical), but I have donated it to A WORTHY CAUSE, rather than a self-serving church. The church did not see eye to eye with me.
I think Scientology would be a lot more effective if they made donations voluntary, as opposed to in exchange for a service or text.

As far as independent Scientologists, I am with you. I am an independant Christian and do not affiliate myself with any particular branch or sect. GO INDY's

Germany has a real concern, but I do not think any religion (or even cult for that matter) should be banned. BRING OUT THE THOUGHT POLICE! The only thing, I believe, a state can do is hold individuals responsible for wrong doings.

If someone in Scientology abused his/her power than send them to jail, much like America sent those pedophile priests to jail. America was not quick to ban Catholicism, but many harsh words were said about Catholicism in the media (which is a bit understandable).

Scientology needs to lighten up as well. South Park makes fun of everyone. Jesus is on every Christmas or Easter as a gun toting Steven Segall type. Get over it and do not be so defensive.

reply to post by Mira_of_lurk0more


Mira False data Stripping is taking the lies one has been fed and searching to find the truth.

It can be painful as it was with me. I had to drop false data I had due to most of my adult life being in the church.

For some it is not painful but a confirmation of what they already knew.

I did not have enough data about livingness it self to judge what should be but as I got older and I hit my wall of false data and low esteem I started to find the truth the hard way.

The church indirectly caused me to wake up by tossing me. I hope I would have found it on my own in time and I bet I would have but it would have taken much longer.

So False data stripping is what it sounds like.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


This is simply not true. One does not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I think they should follow the laws of the land and put the tech back in like it is suppose to be and stop the abuses.

If that is done then there is no problem.

The members of the church allow this to be like many in the the USA is allowing Bush to be.

reply to post by FancyLady


FancyLady you are SUPER. Thank you for helping me and others understand. I wish I could do something meaningful to repay your kindness. I will dispell the placenta-eating myth as I'm sure it will come up at school at some point again.

With what you mention I can better understand what my brother told me earlier today. It may be more difficult than I thought to persuade Attila's friend to participate - I should know more tomorrow-ish.

For a short while (until your help here) I saw this as very black and white. I am naiive. Now I'm seeing shades of gray and the conflicts of which you speak so elegantly and I suspect share with great control and moderation. This must be difficult for you. I can only imagine the angst and other stressors of your journey toward your truth.

I am sooo interested now. I will think of you often as I explore this.

You have shown me aspects of this issue that I had not considered. I am humbled and in your debt. I like you and I thank you.

Sincerely,

Mira

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]

I say good. When I was much younger I was unfortunate enough to rent a room in a house full of scientologist. They are a very screwed up bunch.

There was this one woman who was explaining her financial woes to me. I asked her what the problem was. She eloborated and explained how her husband died and how she had to find a job and the "church" got her a job but that her money was controlled by the "church". I said why don't you just have the emplyer make the paycheck out to you and put into your checking account? She said that it was but the "church" still controlled it. It only gave her "so much" of her money per month. She had some kind of person in the "church" who was (I forget the term she used)..... but they were a person who managed her. They managed every aspect of her life.... who she associated with, her money, everything.

I lived there for about 8 months and I had to leave because I wouldn't convert. I told them their "religion" was BS. I guess they didn't like that.

I hate scientologist because I have interacted with them.... and I don't care that "hollywierd" types are into it because I no respect for anyone in hollywood. I don't even go to the movies and I haven't bought a DVD in about 2 years.

Good job Deutscheland.... go get 'em and burn them.

-Euclid

P.S. - I have read Dianetics and one other book that L Ron wrote..... Useless drivel.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by euclid]

reply to post by FancyLady


Please keep in mind that most people dont understand much of the tech-talk vocabulary you use here. Also, most people are not aware of the "freezone". For them its either a black or white discussion. Anyway, good posts you made there.

To the others: Scientology is a multi-facetted and ambivalent topic. It being under attack in Germany so often is even more ambivalent.

Ive never been a member, because in talking with them, they come across either as cheap salesmen or complete nutjobs...but I have read a lot of their founders materials, and frankly, its a fascinating read.

You see, this is how it's going to start. First they are going to persecute Scientologists... Then it's going to be the Christians... Then it's going to be anyone who has any sort of spiritual beliefs whatsoever...

I think we're, humanity, rolling down hill like a snowball

Also the church is doing itself in as well because it is being lead by suppressive persons.

Interesting use of the term 'suppressive person'. I am sure the leaders of Scientology would say the same about us.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Indeed. If there is one thing I dont like about them scientologists its the use of certain vocabulary without being aware that these type of expressions are not used in the "outside world". A sure sign of brainwashing.


To Speaker of Truth: I am totally against banning any belief system as well. There are ALREADY laws in place to handle criminals, no need to ban any form of thought.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
You see, this is how it's going to start. First they are going to persecute Scientologists... Then it's going to be the Christians... Then it's going to be anyone who has any sort of spiritual beliefs whatsoever...

I think we're, humanity, rolling down hill like a snowball

You miss the difference between spiritual beliefs which can harm no one and organised cons that brainwash people out of their lifes savings or other religions that manipulate people into doing whatever they want.

reply to post by anxietydisorder


Anxiety, don't sweat it... People tend to make comments about other people's belief systems and generally, they haven't even bothered to study it for themselves. Instead, they listen to what others say, whether it be their parents, pastor, teacher, the television, it doesn't matter.. I have seen it too many times.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Did you know...?


that scientologists are conspiracy-theorists of a brand that would make ATSers look tame?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


No, that's not how it will all start. Scientology was the creation of a madman. If not mad, than at least a very good con man. Who can be recorded saying "The easiest way to get a million dollars is by starting a religion!" and out of nowhere he's become some conduit for holy knowledge of space aliens and mars souls. Dissolving this "religion" will not affect Islam, Christianity, or any of the other major religions.


Scientology out. Everywhere.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

"The easiest way to get a million dollars is by starting a religion!"

As already pointed out in this thread, that was the guys sense of humor speaking. Familiar with the concept of humor? Something Jesus and his followers obviously dont have. Neither have I detected any humor in the Koran.

So I´ll disagree with you and say: Either all religions in or all out.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Dissolving this "religion" will not affect Islam, Christianity, or any of the other major religions.


Scientology out. Everywhere.

Well, given the fact I personally don't like ORGANIZED religion, it really matters little as to whether Islam or "Christianity" is affected or not. However, my fear is that they will start clamping down on anyone and everyone who has any spiritual beliefs at all. Then it will hit home for me.

By the way, just how many wars has Scientology started? Since you seem so deadset on its demise,I am sure you can list them for me..

[edit on 4-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Scientology was the creation of a madman.

Were you his psychiatrist? What credentials do you have qualifying you to make such a statement? Or is it that they don't agree with whatever belief system you follow, so that automatically makes them "mad?"

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm in complete agreement, though that's highly unrealistic. I also don't think in black and white terms as to circumvent extremist thoughts. This religion is obviously bunk and has considerable power over the lives of people who believe in it, as with all religions. If they take the opportunity to ban Scientology, maybe it'll start a domino affect on all half-wit religious ideologies. I do see need for the government to step in to prevent any further brainwashing from something as dumb as Scientology, though. They have an obligation to protect their citizens from any sort of threat, including a dangerous cult religion. If we let all these false religions feel accepted and give them a chance to spread to all the stupid people, we may all be looking a force to reckon with.

I also think "A lie told often enough becomes truth overtime." Play into this as well. If we're giving this "religion" a chance to anchor in world wide, it will give some sense of credibility to the ridiculous movement. That's a bad thing for everybody, regardless of the "movement."

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


That's simple reasoning there, guy. Given an opportunity and a motive, anybody from any walk of life will go to war. Bringing war into this discussion is quite the failed attempt at polarization. Let's stay on course.

And because they're defending people from a cult, 50 years old, doesn't mean they're going to start banning mainstream beliefs worldwide, or even widespread. This move towards banning Scientology is step in the right direction.