So theres this girl right...

Originally posted by Jovi1
A real man has no need to lie about these things. A real man accepts his poor choices and accepts full responsibility for them.

That has nothing to do with this situation. Whether he has accepted responsibility has nothing to do with how she will react to it.

He can accept responsibility. That's fine. That's the right thing to do to move on. But that doesn't mean she is going to be as forgiving about his past as he is.

He may go all out and lay it all out for her, but then what if it backfires? Just go with what you said 'there's plenty of women out there' and that's it? Just deal with it? How do you know how much he likes this girl? What if this is "the girl" to him? Now that's over with because he can't control how she reacts to his past? And why does she know about his past? Because it's the politically correct thing to do to 'be honest'?

Yes, there are some things your 'significant other' or potential significant other should know. If he got an STD or something, yeah, she should know.

But if it's just some stupid drunken immature decisions that make him look like an ass now that he's more mature, why does she need to know? As long as he's moved on, why does it matter?

If he is to tell her his past, it'll have to be later rather than right off the bat. He should let her get to know him and how he is now, and be with her for a little bit, and THEN let her in on his past, assuming he has changed his ways. That way, she can look at the guy she has gotten to know now, compared to the guy he describes from the past, and she'll know he has truly changed his ways and isn't that guy anymore.

If he does break it to her later on, it needs to be in the joking fashion. Something like him bringing it up as "something stupid" he used to do, while laughing about it. Nothing all serious, because laughing it off makes it look like he has accepted it as stupid and immature and he can see it as such now that he's more mature and has grown up and moved past that type of behavior.

But if he tells her early on, and she doesn't like the guy he used to be, she's not going to wait around and find out if he has truly changed his ways. And if he truly has, then he's out what could have been a good relationship, all because of "honesty".

No - he should wait or not tell her at all, unless it's something serious that could affect her as well.

[edit on 12/6/07 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


The sad truth about it is if he lies about it, it does effect her. What if she doesn't want to be with someone who has that advanced an education? Who is he to deprive her the right to make that decision? Yeah he really likes her and he may or may not think this is "the One" to do anything less then the right thing is nothing more than being selfish. Why should she be denied the right to reject him on the basis of his past? To fulfill his selfish desires? A real man accepts the consequences of his actions in this particular case the consequences of what he has done may disqualify him as dating material.

She already has alot to measure him by seeing as he didnt take advantage of the situation to begin with, he easily could have. If he lies about it, he has already taken any meaning the relationship could have away. Another thing so she rejects him, a no now doesnt mean a no later, it is more than obvious they have enough common interests that they can be friends. So worst case scenario she rejects him now he moves on dates a few people, keeps control of his urges and earns his way back in is it harder maybe but anything you worked honestly for is ten times more appreciated than anything you had to lie cheat and steal to get.

Originally posted by Jovi1
Why should she be denied the right to reject him on the basis of his past? To fulfill his selfish desires?

Why should he give her the opportunity to make an ill-advised judgment call about his character based on his past mistakes that he's moved on from and deprive himself of what could be a meaningful relationship?

Simply because he has moved on and accepted it as his responsibility and his mistake doesn't mean she'll take it so lightly. The only way you will know how she'll take it is if he tells her. But by then, it may not even mean anything to be honest. There may be no up side to being honest, because she may cut it off right there.

Who's to say she doesn't have a not-so-innocent past that she's covering up? Who's to say she isn't denying him that same right to reject her on the basis of her past? Who's to say she isn't doing so for her own selfish desires? What if she has the same type of past, he's the one that comes clean, and she makes a bad judgment call of his character and ends it? Then who do you think is in the right and who is in the wrong?

All because of what? He told the truth?

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Honesty is key to a healthy relationship. Trust is key to a healthy relationship. But there's some things that hold no real benefit of coming clean about.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Ok your scenario is actually a very plausible one and actually posted that this may very well be the case. She could be lying and covering up, and to be honest IMO probably is, this is something women do pretty often and with good reason. But there are things to consider here as well.

One if she is and that is a very possible if, it doesn't really figure into the picture in so much as by being a man accepting the lead and addressing it first he is opening the door for her to talk about it, should she fail to utilize it then it speaks a volume about how much she really feels for him.

Two by opening the door and putting it on the table he must accept the fact that her colorful experiences do weigh on her as much as his do to him. Ok so lets say she embellished a little bit, the very fact that he is here asking how to handle his own past mistakes because he really likes this girl, should infact grant her a little leeway in that department. She liked him and didnt want him to reject her, he already knows this same anxiety himself. Given this particular young mans predicament he has no choice but to rise and overlook her mistakes inso far as he is asking her to do the same.

And lets just say for the sake of argument he comes clean and she cant deal, and turn to find out she was just as "bad" as he was why would you want to further pursue a relationship with someone who could not give the same level of consideration that they are asking for themselves. Again there are whole lot of smart beautiful women out there that you will find every bit as satisfing and that you will appreciate more because they were able to see beyond the mistakes of the past.

reply to post by Jovi1


You wouldn't want to be with someone who is just as "bad" and still judges you poorly and dumps you. But my point is, we don't know. We don't know how she'll react. We don't know her past. We don't really truly know his past. We don't really know anything. These are all scenarios and guesses.

So my real point is, based on what we do know, I personally would take the "safe" route in terms of preserving the relationship and just not tell her. Unless he is absolutely certain of how she'll react, then I personally think the "safe" way should be taken. The "safe" way being getting a feel of the relationship, figuring her out, letting her figure him out, and then waiting for the RIGHT time to expose the past, rather than rushing it because it's "expected" in the beginning of the relationship.

You can't rush things like this. Sure, it seems wrong keeping something from her. But I think it's better to do it at the right time rather than the convenient or expected time.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Don't get me wrong I do see where your coming from. I just come from the viewpoint that if I have to play a game and do a song and a dance I am packing up and moving on. Yeah I may really like you, but if you can't take me for who I am or what I have done then I will find someone who will and the odds are that that they will be a better match for me by far than you. Life is to short to waste your time on anything less.

reply to post by Jovi1


I, too, see where you're coming from and agree to an extent.

But it is possible, is it not, that she, not knowing his past, could be better for him than a woman who does know his past?

She may be more of 'the one' not knowing his past than another woman is knowing his past.

I'm not saying she's better than all other women. Just saying it may be more "right" in terms of the relationship to leave it out than to include it because what's right for some isn't necessarily for others. So clearly that's a case by case situation.

So it's completely possible that how things would work out between him and her without her knowing his past could be better than if he went to some other woman and spilled his past. Although it's wrong to keep it from her, maybe it's best for the relationship.

Again, none of us know anything of this. All of it is possible. So clearly it's up to him to make that judgment call considering he knows her and we don't.



[edit on 12/7/07 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I wil agree that in theory it is possible but in experience and practice it isn't likely. It would make me extremly happy to be able to tell you otherwise, it would also give me great pleasure to tell you that " The One" exists. But alas the truth is it doesn't, a relationship is what you make it, and how many of each others faults you are willing to overlook. There is no greater component to love than forgivness, and I am not talking about this half done mealy-mouthed bile that people say and do. You either forgive it and forget it or it really isn't forgiven, but that is a whole different discussion and i will save it for a later time.

reply to post by Jovi1


I think everyone has their own version of "the one". "The one" is what they prefer; what they make "the one" out to be, and when they find that someone, they build off of that and make it in to what it really is.

So I guess it's a combination of both. What you said, with a relationship being what you build it to be, while also having pre-determined conditions, standards, or preferences that would fit 'the one'.

But yeah, that's for another discussion.

I tend to believe that someone's past experience in relationships is really none of my business. The most I want to know is if the guy has children, if he is married or seperated. Anything else is none of my business really.

I never ask how many women a guy has been with. I never ask if I am better than his ex. I never ask how many relationships he has been in. Why? Besides the fact that it is none of my business... I do not think it is his business to ask me questions like that. What is done in the past should stay in the past. As long as you are not planning on doing to her what you have done in the past.. it has no bearings.

However, she has asked you and if you keep hedging around the bush, she is going to get suspicious. I do not recommend lying here. Once you lie, you will have to continue to lie to cover up that first lie. Simple fact.

I would suggest telling her that you have had some encounters that give you more experience than she, but that they are not something you intend to repeat. Do not jump out and tell her you were a player, for that will simply give her something to worry about and most likely will make her run for the hills in fear of being treated that way.

Remember that the keys to a good relationship are communication, friendship, trust and loyalty. As painful as it may be to tell her that you are infinitely more experienced than she is, in the end, it will serve you better than saying "Oh.. umm.. I've been with .. umm.. 2!"

The suggestion that she may not be as innocent as you think could very well be true. I am not trying to say that she is lying, I have no way of knowing. However, I have known girls who like to tell guys that they are virgins or very inexperienced in the hopes of attracting them. I suppose what I am saying is keep an open mind to the possibilities here.

VV

I would like to thank all of you for the input. Especialy to Novous and Jovi1, who took the thread and made a nice little debate about it. Well done.

This girl is very incocent, and i do not doubt this, and i have had my experiences with lieing ladies. To quote her, she went to "A very Asian High school, in San Fransico" i asked what she and her friends would do to hang out and what not, she replyed that they would get together and have study parties... she also drew a certain part of the male genetailia on my passed out buddy, and it was evident by the lack of detail on the picture that she had no idea what she was doing, nor what it looked like. She is also very christain, and stated strongly that she would never want to engage in pre-maritail sex. She also is looking for a christain guy... thats not somehting i would ever describe myself as, but i do hacve morals... well at least now...

Ive decided to take things slow with this girl, she is very nice, sweet, and deserves a good man. If we begin to get a little bit serious, then i will have to give her some disclousre... not that it would be easy... and i am not sure how much detail i should give her.

I just dont want to scare her off, for something i did years ago.

Also, i jus moved here a couple months ago, and have no history with any of the girls here, so any run-ins with girls from my past, cannot happen, as they all live either 3000 or 300 miles away... unless someone from where i used to live transfered to here... oh god, there is one girl from my JC that transfered here..... ok... so there is a 1 in 30,000 chance that she could randomly talk to her on campus and find out of some of my prior experiences..... 1/30000.... i like those odds....the other girl was a christain TOO, what if they are in the same Youth Gruop! OH sweet mercy! What would i do then, when i walk into the church with this girl to go to her youth group, and across the room there she is!!! Nothing, nevermind, we will cross that brigde if we have to.....