Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

Hello everyone,

After following this thread for the last couple weeks, I thought an update might be helpful to this very lively and popular discussion...

The man behind the gun - Houston Chornicle

www.chron.com

Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, collapsed and died not far from Horn's house. Both were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia with Houston addresses. Torres was sent to prison for dealing coc aine and was deported in 1999.

Pasadena Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said both men were shot in the back. After ignoring pleas from a 911 dispatcher to stay in his house, Horn went outside to see what was happening and found himself within 7 feet of and face-to-face with the suspects...

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.chron.com
www.chron.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:

Man behind the gun


Joe Horn


Diego Ortiz


Hernando Riascos Torres

Obviously there is a great deal of interest in this terrible event which took place on Nov. 14 and left 2 people dead. turned Joe Horn's life upside down, stirred racial tensions in the Houston area and has lead to the local city council passing an ordinance to "ban residential picketing."

The Grand Jury will probably be the next step in the legal process. The police say it will be 4 weeks before they turn their report over the DA. Civil actions may drag on for years.

Meanwhile, in my opinion, the fundamental question involves the Rule of Law vs. anarchy and the subsequent break-down of civil society. Is it by plan, or ???

What do you think?

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 12/16/2007 by GreenFloyd]

i am so tired of hearing about this the man wasn't charged then the media got involved and ran with it. one day rick sanchez said the so called vitims were one hispanic and one african american. the very next day on his show he was saying they were both african american. yes horn was probably a dumb ass. but the "victims
'were career criminals and they had weapons. they were illegal aliens they were running a burlary ring one was a former dealer.

My buddy told me the other day to crawl through his window and unlock the door. Good thing we don't live in Shoot First ask Later, Texas.

Yes, good it happened to be 2 career criminals who were not even legal. But it will not always be those two.

Sounds like all of Texas is getting a bad rap over one person's actions. In it's defense I would like to say that I spent time in Tx, while attending the university there.
The gun laws are stricter than you might imagine. I looked into getting one, because I had acquired a very scary stalker. Decided against it, because you are not allowed to carry it on your person. The only time you can carry one is if you are a registered peace officer, or if you are coming from or going to a sporting event (such as a firing range).
My stalker showed up more away from my home than while I was at home. So it seemed a useless endeavor.

The moment they broke the law by entering another's property illegally they forfeited all their rights. How was the man supposed to know if they were armed? You would expect that if they are breaking in broad daylight. We can be armchair judges but he was within the law. Society focuses to much sympathy on to the criminal and not the victim. I am not sure about this but i am pretty sure in some states if they fell down and broke their legs while robbing you blind they could sue you for damages! Some people just want to take the moral highroad and say "hey i care about all these poor souls".

reply to post by dark_matter06


Nice misdirection but this guy lived in this neighborhood for a good while. The neighbors all came to him for help and he knew the people living next door. I doubt he was concerned that the man with corn rows crawling out of the window with # in his hands was there legally. Hes a hero, # the criminals. Yup... # em. Not to mention, if you were crawling into your friends window with permission obviously he or his room mate were not home to shoot you... and yea, if you crawl through my window your gonna get shot. You can cry about it later.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by shug7272]

Should've minded his own business, no one told him to kill! in fact, the operator lady told him otherwise! hes a murderer, regardless of what the "law" says!

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Some interesting conflicts in the report...

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

His comment before stepping out amounts to premeditation. He planned on killing these two and then did. That pretty much tanks any claim of "self defense". In fact, it's not a big legal leap to make that grounds for murder charges. If you plan to kill someone, then do it, it's murder. Kinda cut and dried.

Then again, Texas is a rather odd place in it's celebration of justice through the employment of firearms. I doubt this guy will have much trouble.

Personally... I think I woulda knee capped 'em. Best of both worlds. You stop 'em and they live to learn a valuable lesson about cause and effect (crime and punishment).




[edit on 1-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

Blowing out a guys knee for theft is a little steep in punishment dont you think? You could severely cripple a man especially with a shotgun. But then again looking at the outcome of this situation I dont know.


The man did enough when he called 911. He didn't need to go out there and kill two individuals for stealing a stereo and some money or whatever it was. What if his neighbors were drug dealers or related to some sort of crime? You dont know, so why would you get involved. His intentions were clear from what he said to the 911 operator.

Originally posted by Boondock78
and i have asked at least 3 times in this thread and i have not seen a reply by anyone so i will ask again..

have any of you been the victim of a home invasion? have you ever had that feeling of your security being ripped from you.
have you spent lets say, 23 years or so thinking about it?

Sorry. I got on this thread rather late. I have been the victim of a home invasion. 4 years ago I was packing stuff up to move to a better location, and I had my brother and a couple friends there helping me out. I get a knock on the door and there were 5 males outside. One of them says he is a friend of someone who I knew, and he said he had met me before. I had never met this guy, and I told him as much and let him know that I was busy and had to get back to what I was doing. I quickly closed the door and locked it, but it didnt long for them to kick it in. He rushes in the door with 4 other people behind him and they held us all at gunpoint while taking anything of value that they could carry. We werent physically harmed, but it was something I will never forget.

A year and a half ago I had my home burglarized again, but I was at work while that one took place. I came home to find most everything of value gone. Everything was thrown around, and it even looked like they broke various things (mirrors, lamps, etc) just to break them.

After these two incidents I decided that I wanted to arm myself. I took a CHL course and got my concealed carry license. I am now the proud owner of 6 pistols, 1 mossburg, and 1 Robinson Arms XCR assault rifle. I have spent many many of hours in firearms training up to this point, and I feel a lot more confident that I can help avoid being terrorized again. I just have the thoughts in my head that it can happen again, and the next time they may decide they dont want any witnesses. Oh yeah, and both of those times that my home was burglarized there were WITNESSES and they didnt even call the police. Another time I had an altercation with a drunken friend and my girlfriend called the police immediately. It took them 15 minutes to arrive, and I lived right in the middle of a larger city so it wasnt like they had to go 20 miles down some farm road to get there. That goes to show that the only person you can depend on is yourself, and occassionaly good neighbors like Mr. Horn.

I applaud Mr. Horn for his actions even if they did unfortunately end the way they did. I am also a native Texan and I am glad I share my wonderful state with people like him. I, like Boondock, have been the victim of a horrible situation involving home invasion. Once you experience something like that you will start think a little differently.

Originally posted by spinstopshere
Society focuses to much sympathy on to the criminal and not the victim.

Society focuses not enough sympathy on the real victims - individuals victimized by crime - and too much on groups of so-called victims based on skin colour and other tribal idiocy.

reply to post by eyewitness86

Well, while it does seem as though the man had the intent of shooting the perps, he may have just spoken hastily in the heat of the moment when talking to the 911 operator prior to the incident. He may have had the intention of holding the men at gunpoint or something similar. The thing is we don't know what transpired other than the end result after he left his house. Perhaps the criminals posited a threat that the man deemed life threatening and he acted accordingly?
I was amazed to see the Texas law as posted above that extended the use of deadly force to protecting the moveable property of a third party. Where I live, Taxachussetts, the law is entirely on the side of the criminal. In my state you pretty much have to jump through flaming hoops doing backflips and stick the landing to get a license to carry a handgun. Having a firearm in my state is a huge responsibility and a huge burden almost, but as mentioned previously, the police force is merely reactionary, they won't be there to defend me in a dire situation so I have to assume that responsibility myself. The fact is, in Massachusetts in order to have a justified shooting, you basically have to exhaust all avenues of escape - they encourage fleeing at all costs, they basically want you to tuck tail and run. I'm pretty sure you have to actually be shot, not just shot at, in order to return fire, and unfortunately like others have posted, if you shoot - it better be a double tap to make sure of the kill, otherwise the criminal can take you to court and sue you for everything you've got, or worse take everything you've got AND get you in prison for assault/attempted murder. Even if it is a justifiable shooting it will still cost you about a million dollars in defense just to clear your name. I am a proud gun owner, and I hope that I never have to use them on anybody, not because I don't think I could, but it just has so many negative repercussions, especially in my state.
I have to admit that I would never have willingly placed myself in a position where I would have to use the measure of force that this man did, but according to Texas law he was within legal bounds; and personally I think the world would be a better place if the laws were like that everywhere - not to say we should shoot people for petty theft, but it would certainly be a major deterrent if you knew you could be killed for it. Criminals prefer unarmed victims and they don't like to take unnecessary risks. It's far safer to rob an unarmed person especially when they know full well their victim can do nothing to stop you even if they were armed. In this respect the laws of my state favor the criminals and make it easier on them. I would think there would be a whole lot less crime if there was a perception that everyone had a weapon and could use it freely to defend their lives or any aspect of theirs or their neighbors property. It would be nice if the laws everywhere would actually work to serve law abiding citizens instead of aiding criminals.


After reading the article above I'm not sure Horn acted accordingly. Given, the two men WERE clearly morally bankrupt and classic no-good-nicks, and he probably did the world a service - I can't really condone shooting a man in the back unless he's stepping over the body of my murdered family while he's fleeing. Perhaps the real issue here is why the Gov't is doing nothing noteworthy to stem the flow of career criminal illegal Mexican refuse innundating Texas.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by Grizzly Bear]

This is retarded, lived in Texas most of my life. The guys going to jail and the news article link doesn't work. So did this even happen?

You are not allowed to be judge jury and executioner. The majority of the planet is dumb. Thats why we have police. And I sincerely hope this stupid person gets the death penalty. That law that was quoted was BS you cant shoot someone dead for walking across your land.

Also the guy would have to prove the guy left the property in his possession. The guys a murderer not a hero. And a retard.

I hate stupid, sorry.


[edit on 17-2-2008 by Memysabu]

www.youtube.com...


They were both shot in the back. The cops would have gotten the guys. To bad the cops didn't shoot Horn. Its pure premeditation.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by Memysabu]

Mr. Horn was well within TX State Law, premeditated or not. I am glad the State I live in -MO- has recently put some common sense laws on the books.

www.freerepublic.com...

[edit on 17-2-2008 by deadjed]

Update:

Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings

A Harris County grand jury decided today that Joe Horn should not be charged with a crime for shooting two burglary suspects he confronted outside his neighbor's home in Pasadena last fall.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Speaking of which, that's something you criminal rights supporters never seem to think about. Who is to say that these guys, if left alone, wouldn't have killed or raped someone later during a burglary? One would have to think that these guys, seeing as they are already willing to commit a crime (in broad daylight no less), were quite likely to end up eventually hurting someone who they broke in on, if that haven't already that is.



J

You have no evidence of this, and no reason to believe this aside from your own prejudice. This is horribly flawed logic and can't hold up to any true scrutiny.

Precisely.

By the same logic, prove that it wasn't two orphaned brothers, who'd been struggling for years against abusive foster parents and finally escaped, only to find they are starving, and have to resort to burglary to feed themselves, to then be shot by this fat, murdering redneck sicko.

"I'm gonna go kill them" - that is the statement of a man who has wanted this to happen for a long time, and is now going to capitalise on it fully. What a sick state Texas must be.

reply to post by makeitso


What a tragedy. The man should have at least been charged with manslaughter. His life was never in danger, nether was his neighbors and yet he's claimed to be a hero because he's a vigilante?

So he's away and clear.

I'm kind of 50/50 on the issue.

The law for that area allows it. There was no guarantee they would have been caught and items returned. He was told not to go out to confront them, yet did.

He stood by what he believed to be right, which is what anyone would do. There was no real need for both of them to be gunned down. Restraint may have been more 'humane'.

I've been burgled, whilst I slept. It's not nice to find some of your prize items gone, never to be seen again and with the police powerless to do anything about it.

Heaven help anyone who ever enters my property like that again.

The grand jury heard the case and decided that he acted within the law.

There is one simple fact: these two men were burglarizing homes. Were they not doing this, their risk for being shot would have been greatly decreased.

I see some "what if" posts (what if they were starving orphans? they were 30 and 38 years old, try again)...in our country we deal with facts when conducting criminal investigation. The facts are: he was asked to protect his neighbors property and these guys broke in. When he addressed them, they started coming his way. He told them not to move or he would shoot them, and they moved. So he shot them.

Come break into houses on my street and see what happens.

i remember when this first happened. i see it from both angles, but when it comes down to it, the ppl stealing chose to do such and in tx, ya steal others property, you know very damn well that you are placing your life in your own hands. i personally would not have shot someone over stolen property, but again, this is something well known in tx and therefore the robbers have no one to blame but themselves for making bad choices.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by justamomma]