Bubble gum music.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
I can't stand Marilyn Manson either. It is my opinion that he is the way he is just to get a rise out of people. To me he is fake.

well i'll be damned. who knew me and you could ever agree on something.

Masks and taboo tatoos are a part of the show, I agree. It's not nessecary for their music, but it still sounds good to my ears. I would much rather listen to lyrics I can relate to, than listen to celein dion (however you spell it) yodel. (Notice I didn't compare to hip-hop.) *Pats self on back*

Saying slipknot and Manson don't have talent is very brave to say, considering they've sold millions of records, and have made names for themselves in the music industry. It's easy for one to say that another lacks talent, when it takes no talent for another to critisize!

[edit on 3-12-2007 by MadSeason313]

reply to post by MadSeason313


I didn't say that they didn't have talent, I said slipknot was pretty buble gum as far as rock goes and I said Marilyn Manson in my opinion is fake. There is a difference between using theatrical tactics to enhance your music and seeming to care more about your theatrics than your music in itself.

I also find it ironic that you were the one who started this thread and yet you are equating "making it" and "Making big money doing it" to talent....

Originally posted by MadSeason313

Saying slipknot and Manson don't have talent is very brave to say, considering they've sold millions of records, and have made names for themselves in the music industry.

2 things...

they made a name? maybe for 5 minutes....
also, talent has NOTHING to do with units sold....not at all

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

There is a difference between using theatrical tactics to enhance your music and seeming to care more about your theatrics than your music in itself.

agreed. slipknot= for me....

now lets look at another artist that used theatrics..a mask and such.

buckethead.

he is a virtuoso by every damn definition of the word when it comes to the guitar. his phrases are amazing. his technique is perfect.
tone is great.

he is just a bad ass guitar player...

he wears the mask and bucket to cover himself cause according to him, he wants it to be about the music, not him....like when metallica cut thwir hair and everyone cried....he don't have to worry about that cause nobody knows what he looks like.
he does it cause this way, it is all about the music and not his hair or his this or that....

when he picks up that guitar, you know you are about to hear some hot stuff.
slipknot though......negative for me.

coupla vids to recognize the skill.

here is buckethead playing 'jordan'



'nottingham lace'



-----

now lets have a look see. again, talent has NOTHING to do with units sold...if it did, that would mean that people like britney spears and all those blonde turds would be the most talented...not how it is.

en.wikipedia.org...

Buckethead (born Brian Carroll in 1969) is an American guitarist and composer. He is known for wearing a white plastic mask and a KFC bucket on his head. He is a prolific composer, having released 36 solo albums and performed on over 50 more

Although Buckethead now works primarily as a solo artist touring the United States with a trio, he has had a wide variety of high profile collaborations with such artists as Les Claypool, Tony Williams, Bootsy Collins, Bernie Worrell, Serj Tankian, Guns N' Roses, Saul Williams, Mike Patton, Viggo Mortensen and with Bill Laswell on Praxis.

solo=
1992: Bucketheadland
1994: Giant Robot
1996: Day of the Robot
1998: Colma
1999: Monsters and Robots
2001: Somewhere Over the Slaughterhouse
2002: Funnel Weaver
2002: Bermuda Triangle
2002: Electric Tears
2003: Bucketheadland 2
2004: Island of Lost Minds
2004: Population Override
2004: The Cuckoo Clocks of Hell
2005: Enter the Chicken
2005: Kaleidoscalp
2005: Inbred Mountain
2006: The Elephant Man's Alarm Clock
2006: Crime Slunk Scene
2007: Pepper's Ghost
2007: Acoustic Shards
2007: Decoding the Tomb of Bansheebot
2007: Cyborg Slunks
--
Appearances with various artists
(1993) - Last Action Hero (Soundtrack)
(1993) - Last Action Hero (Score)
(1995) - Johnny Mnemonic (Soundtrack)
(1995) - Mortal Kombat (Soundtrack)
(1995) - Mortal Kombat (Score)
(1996) - Alien Ambient Galaxy
(1996) - Stealing Beauty (Soundtrack)
(1997) - Beverly Hills Ninja (Soundtrack)
(1997) - Guitar Zone
(1997) - Mortal Kombat 2: Annihilation (Soundtrack)
(1997) - Guitars on Mars
(1998) - Night and Day
(1998) - Guitarisma 2
(1998) - Great Jewish Music: A Tribute to Marc Bolan
(1998) - New Yorker Out Loud: Volume 2
(1999) - Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (Soundtrack)
(1999) - Crash Course in Music
(1999) - Horizons
(1999) - Music for the New Millennium
(2001) - Innerhythmic Sound System
(2001) - Ghosts of Mars (Soundtrack)
(2001) - Dragon Ball Z: "The History of Trunks" (Soundtrack)
(2001) - Bomb Anniversary Collection
(2002) - Guitars for Freedom
(2002) - The Meta Collection
(2002) - Scratch: The Film (Score)
(2002) - Urban Revolutions
(2005) - Blue Suenos
(2005) - Masters of Horror (Soundtrack)
(2005) - Saw 2 (Soundtrack)
(2006) - Guitar Hero II
(2006) - The Longest Yard Jack and the Ripper
--------

thats but some of them......
THAT is talent....

lets look at slipknot now.

en.wikipedia.org...


their discog....
en.wikipedia.org...

can't touch the bucket mang

There are/were plenty of bands that cared about their attires. Look at the 80's for example. Not everyone in the 80's walked around with red lipstick and puffy blonde, or tight leather pants at that. Any era of music has their looks.

I honestly belive Slipknot has a great deal of talent. Saying that don't is ridiculous. Saying that you don't like them, is alot more reasonable. How would you like it if someone came up to you and told you that you sucked at what you do best? And don't give me that "I would improve", "I can take constructive criticism" crap. I would feel insulted.
So just by stating that a particular band has no talent, sais alot about yours. If you think you can do any better, semd me a demo tape, i'll let you know my thoughts.

A bands talent and their image are two totally different things. Do you really think anyone wears a clown mask into the recording studio? I think not. The music that they make, obviously isn't a form of their image, but vise versa. The image is merely a way to entertain. That's why music is a form of entertainment/art. Music evolves everyday, why can't the image posed with it also?

As for Marilyn Manson.. He is one intelligent son of a, and he explains that in his lyrics. If your not interested in his lyrics, than your probably not going to catch onto any of his messages. Of course some are meaningfull, and some are for entertainment, but if you were a fan, you would know which ones to actually take in.





[edit on 3-12-2007 by MadSeason313]

Im of the 70's and miss most of that music but this good Aussi group seem to be bringing back that great sound, i like it.
Wolfmother.

But im not afraid to say i still love the ultimate bubble gum group "ABBA"


[edit on 3-12-2007 by MinMin]

OK forgot how to put the video on but the group is Wolfmother the song being "Woman" sorry no sleep

Originally posted by MadSeason313

I honestly belive Slipknot has a great deal of talent. Saying that don't is ridiculous. Saying that you don't like them, is alot more reasonable.

^^^^^agreed for the most part...'good' music is all up to the listener. if you like it, it's bitchen. if not then it sucks...for YOU....

Do you really think anyone wears a clown mask into the recording studio? I think not.


^^^^well, it's not a clown mask but buckethead wears his mask abd bucket in the studio.
here is a snip of buckethead, scott ian, and steve vai, in the STUDIO laying down the score for ghosts of mars......buckethead is wearing his mask.

buckethead comes in @ 3:02-4:16 and does a SICK run, in his mask.
see, this is only my opinion but i think that slipknot needs to rely on their schtick to 'sell' their stuff.
buckethead does it for the opposite reasons....
he wants it to be about the music....

so yeah, there is at least one person that goes into the studio in their mask(s)

buckethead it a virtuoso dude...
i don't mean to bash any group cause it is all up to the listener.

also, as far as slipknot goes, i don't really like groups that growl and #.
i generally don't like the thrash/nu metal/grind or whatever the hell else they play...

i DO like the idea of a 9 piece and i DO like all the percussion.
for my ear though, they just don't deliver the goods.

i like to hear the music. the melodies and such.


again, that is a personal taste. as of late, i have been listening to lots of classical and jazz so i am at a polar opposite.

Wow, I'm turning into my parents because I don't get out much anymore.

Half those bands I don't even know about. I guess you can call me old school cause I still love the classic Rock n Roll. Frank Zappa, The Who, The Doors, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Rush, etc..

I like some of the Rock today like Nickelback, Linkin Park and some others I don't even know the name of. I don't like hip hop, rap music but can handle all the rest. I know, I have to get out more.

All I do is work, work and kids, kids and work.

I've listened to pleanty of Buckethead, great musician. But back to slipknot. All in the eye of the beholder as you said, well, the ear in this case. To me the "growl", and the # is what appeals me to the band. I believe the only reason why buckethead hid his appearance in the studio is because he knew it would be filmed. As you said earlier, he doesn't want to reveal himself. Unknowingly, he does attract listeners because his image. Just about everyband has an image, even if it's not their intentions.

Personally, I liked grunge music. Simply because they didn't give a damn what they wore, or how they sounded when they sang their lyrics. Another good example of someone not giving an image, Janis Joplin.. *basks in Joplins tunes*

I was watching some videos of slipknot, and their original reason for having the masks on were because they didn't want the attention when they were in public. They didn't want to be bombarded by reporters or crazed fans. So there was a reason more than just image.
"Often, Corey Taylor would go on stage without his mask and jam",Rolling Stone.
So they aren't all about self imagery.
Yes, music is all about who listens to it. I'm pretty divers in my "rock" collection. As I mentioned earlier, I listen to 60's, to present. But my favorite era was the 90's. Back when seattle ruled the music scene. Back when there was a revolution of grunge, and when hair bands started to become a distant memory.
Don't get me wrong, I like alot of 80' tunes, but alot of the artists just cared about sex, drugs, and "rock and roll".
"I sing what I know, not what people dream about" - Layne Staley, Lead singer of Alice in Chains.
So I listen to alot of what I can relate. And sometimes, not. If it catches my attention, i'll listen to some hip-hop, but seldomly. Haven't liked a song since Eminem. Even then, the song didn't last long in my head.

Those BucketHead videos were pretty neat.. How do I upload a video? I've tried a few times, but get a black screen with a link that doesn't appear to be accessible.

Thanks in advanced! -Mad

I wasn't really referring to Slipknot when I was talking about theatrics. I don't care for the cookie monster vocals, however I have heard them do some pretty decent melodic choruses and in my opinion ruining them by following these choruses up with the cookie monster vocals.

Also I never said that Marilyn Manson wasn't smart, I agree with you on that one. However I feel that he cares more about the shock value of his image than he cares about his music.

Yes there are a lot of bands who care about their image and I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is when they seem to care more about that image than their music.

Give me an example of someone who cares more of their image, and back it up with a solid source. Then perhaps, this debate will come to an end.

Originally posted by MadSeason313
To me the "growl", and the # is what appeals me to the band. I believe the only reason why buckethead hid his appearance in the studio is because he knew it would be filmed.

^^^^^point was he does/did wear it in the studio....that was all.
you like it for the growl..i hate it cause the growl...thats what is rad about music...i don't have to listen to or like what you like and same goes for you....if you like it, it's bitchen...it's good music....
thats all there is to it.


Another good example of someone not giving an image, Janis Joplin.. *basks in Joplins tunes*

^^^^first, i love janice...there has not really been a woman with pipes like her since she died....i would say she had an image though....her image was that if a cig smoking, jack daniels swilling, don't give a crap rock chick...i think that kinda happened by default though....she did not create that image..


But my favorite era was the 90's. Back when seattle ruled the music scene. Back when there was a revolution of grunge, and when hair bands started to become a distant memory.

^^^^i was into that type for a long time. i was in highschool when that type of music was big..all the grunge stuff.
once i started playing guitar and studying music theory, my musical tastes did an about face....my ear is different now....
now that i understand music, i hear it differently. i don't know how to explain it.



Don't get me wrong, I like alot of 80' tunes, but alot of the artists just cared about sex, drugs, and "rock and roll".

^^^^imo, for the most part, the big hair, 80's 'glam rock' blows balls. i hate it...'most of it'...i mean, there was some killer notes put out in the 80's. frank was active in the 80's. my favorite zappa tune came out in the 80's but the 80's rock groups were in their own class. the huge hair. the makeup. the huge arenas......just not for me.

this is wht music is so fantastic....we could put in a song, any song and get 100 people listening to it, and all 100 people would hear it and feel it differently...
once i started to understand what i was hearing, i started to 'see' the colors. i could 'feel' the depth.
i just can't explain it...

as far as 'new' bands.....the only 'new' band that i listen to faithfully is the white stripes.
i love the stripes..
i really can't stand the state of music and rock in particular....

i really like KT Tunstall(sp)..
i also like amy winehouse but she can't seem to get her stuff together.

you have any vid links to the guitarist solo'ing from slipknot?
i'd like to hear his style

Originally posted by MadSeason313
Give me an example of someone who cares more of their image, and back it up with a solid source. Then perhaps, this debate will come to an end.

as far as uploading vids, it's pretty easy man.,...i don't know why you would get a black screen. just follow what it says...browse to the folder, upload it and tag it....

to what i quoted....i don't have a source but i would say that just about every rock group out there today is more worried about their image....
why? cause the music is dumbed down. they play stuff that is totally safe..

i like people that are not afraid to hang it out there. i like improvisations....basically i like bands that are not afraid to let their testes hand out there and see whats what.

i guess if i had to put a genre out there it would be progressive.

groupls like 30 seconds to mars.....i think they are more worried about their look...i mean, look at em....

here is a few more vids....
this will give you an example of what i mean by letting it hang out there.
these are all zappa.


first, my absolute favorite improvosation ever
this is 'suicide chump' from 1978. improv solo



'whipping post solo'



this is my absolute favorite improv of all time....it is from 'montana', 1974...just look how he comes in and attacks it...the risks he takes....
if you only watch one video, please make it this one




hook me up with a couple vids of slipknot and i'll check em out

while we are talking of bubblegum groups i want to talk about another artist...a female guitarist named nori bucci.
it REALLY bothers me that musicians like her do not 'make it' but 'artists' like lil mama(rapping about lip gloss) goes from youtube/myspace 'sensation' to mainstream rapper chick.

anyway, check out nori.....
she is bad ass man





^^^scope this one first....
she poans

edit*
i don't have a myspace account anymore but there is a dude on there that i used to talk to that lives in chicago and he is bad ass. he is a nerdy looking black dude but he plays sick jazz fusion.

he was going by the name(try not to laugh) wizzard ishmail nighthawk the day walker

i'm telling you though...that dude can play....
if you have a myspace acct, i would try to find that.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Boondock78]

I love music, and to just write off new music is selling yourself short, and you are missing the voice of this generation. I love music from the 70's and 80's its the music I grew up with. I also Love music from the 90's and to the present. To call Slipknot bubble gum music is laughable at best For


As for Manson I saw him a few years ago at a outdoor concert with Seether, It was freezing and his show went on for over three hours, and I don't think anyone left, the dude is good at what he does.

As for Tool, they will go down in history as Legends, I Love Tool:


I don't really care for country music, but I do like Johnny Cash and some others, but to hate music or the artists, is growing old IMO and is living a reminiscent lifestyle, is that what you really want?



I also like some groups you may not have heard of like Corporate Avenger[fault the police, Bible is bs, taxes are stealing] and Kottonmouth Kings[peace not greed], but if you think the best music has already been done and there is no hope for music's future, I really feel sorry for you.

This is the best and oldest Rock radio station in the World KSHE95

Music defines our world and culture and is the voice of our generations Grow old and whither if you must but I refuse 2. And speaking of oldy, But a goody, funny how this looks like our world today:







[edit on 4-12-2007 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 4-12-2007 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 4-12-2007 by LDragonFire]

reply to post by Boondock78

Nori Bucci
WOW well thank you Boondock thanks for giveing her a plug i was hooked right away and i totaly agree with you she should be huge, REAL talent she looks like she loves it and reminds me a bit of a female Carlos Santana i wrote her name down and im going to try and find a cd ASAP
Thank you.