could you be considered a terrorist?

With all of the recent pending legislation and even some that is currently on the books could you be considered a terrorist? It appears I either do or have done the following:
read the Constitution in public
belong to a local church congregation
disagree vocally with my elected officials
display the flag [preferably the Gadsden Flag]
may own a gun
belong to one or more groups
have been seen publicly protesting
question my local law enforcement officials
As it currently stands and is proposed I may be considered a terrorist suspect and may be put on a watch list. Where do you fit in? Or am I the only patriotic terrorist out there? Depending on which side of the fence you are on I may also be considered a freedom fighter.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

O.K. I,ll just sit here and wait for the guys in the white truck to take me to the white room and give me nice things to make me feel good

respectfully

reluctantpawn

RP, I think terrrorist is the wrong discription really but with whats going on in America as happened elswhere, people tend to fall into 3 groups.

Group 1 are those who willing help and partake in the regime.

Group 2 are those who become totally subserviant to the regime but do not play any role in it.


Group 3, I think this is where you fit in, any persons not falling into groups 1 & 2 end up in this group. That group is made up of those who wish to remain an individual, to speak out against the regime, but it would also encompass the following, Lesbians, Gays, minority Groups, Mentaly ill, Political Activists, basically anyone you can think of the dose not fall in group 1 or 2.

m.m.
I can't argue with your logic, but that is not where I was trying to go. With all the new legislation that is pending it seems that most anyone could be labeled a terrorist if they don't fall into one of the first two groups. I thought that others might follow in that train of logic. Either I was wrong and others may not see things going that way or they just won't speak up.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

RP, to give you an example of what you are saying, here in the UK we have had people arrested and charged under anti terrorism legislation for, speacking out at a Govermnet rally, riding a bike in a prohibited area.

Yes as stupid as it reads that has happened, so yes if you went out on the street wearing a tee shirt stating Bush was a war criminal you would probaly get arrested and charged under such legislation.

To put it simple all are seen as a threat whom ever they may be, and its a sad state of affairs in that what was once the worlds biggest democracy could be very quickly turning into a fascist state. People should never fear their Goverment and Goverments should fear their people, that is exactly what is happening, the Goverment do fear the people, by Goverment I mean all those behind the scene's and no the front puppets.

What was was seen as a basic right to speak out now labels you as un America, a traitor, a Terrorist supporter etc.

mm, For something of that nature to happen there is beyond reason. Here in the U.S. our constitution guarantees these rights are given by God and are unalienable. Now we have protest zones and hate speech. While some beliefs are outright wrong, you should still have the freedom to express those thoughts as you see fit. There are many here I disagree with, but they should be able to say what is on their mind, without legal repurcussions. It now seems that what here was on lauded as good and wholesome is now considered threatening and dangerous. It is truly scary times here.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

I do worry about this.

Information is power and information can be manipulated to suit the needs of any government or special interest group. IMO it's really only a matter of time before a dissident, simply protesting, will be declared a 'terrorist'. The governemt has already established that it can seize the assets of an individual or group that it perceives as 'interferring' with its policies in Iraq. The vague and ever-morphing definitions of virtually all of the anti-terror legislation leave a gaping hole in our civil rights.

Pending 'Violent Radicalization' Bill:
www.govtrack.us...

related thread:

Domestic Spying: National Applications Office:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

kj, these holes are what truly scare me laws that are specific do not. Isn't this about the same tactic employed by the nazis. First make vague laws, then enforce them in any manner you see fit. It is a quick and easy way to get rid of any disenting strength. Make what they say and do illegal. Ostracize them away from the mainstream. They are already doing this in our school system. I recently had to sit down with my son and explain to him why I was not a bad person because I had a firearm. Where will it go from here.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Over time, the criteria for determining whether or not a person is a terrorist has change from

"A person who threatens or employs violence as a means of political change."

to

"A person who threatens or employs political change."



In the face of tyranny, the former is still murder, but the later is duty.

I know I have been ID'd as a terrorist, at least in the IT info world.
That is how I got my job which is to catch others who are malicious.
The best part of the job... identifying and then sending to jail pedophiles!

The thing that I sometimes worry about is that nearly everyone is breaking some of the new thousands of pedantic laws every day.

Whether it is downloading a file illegally or not paying some tax, the chances are that you are breaking some obscure law every day. If the govenment had a list of all the people, for example, think 9/11 was an insidejob, they could techniaclly arrest all of those people for completely separate laws, so no one would notice they were actually arresting them for their point of view. Now thats a scary thought.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by ZeuZZ]

reply to post by dionysius9


The issues I have are not wanting to change the system but wanting to restore it to its original glory. We are truly part of a great experiment. The founding fathers created a document that is timeless. I only wish that we could once again recognize it for what it is. A bastion of freedom not a basket of corporatism.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

The meat of the bill:

110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 1955
←→
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES
October 24, 2007
Received; read twice and referred to the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

AN ACT
To prevent homegrown terrorism, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

(1) COMMISSION- The term `Commission' means the National Commission on the Prevention of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism established under section 899C.

(2) VIOLENT RADICALIZATION- The term `violent radicalization' means the process of adopting or promoting an extremist belief system for the purpose of facilitating ideologically based violence to advance political, religious, or social change.

(3) HOMEGROWN TERRORISM- The term `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.

More:

(3) The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens.

It's this that concerns me most:

and for other purposes.

I have commented on this legislation in several other threads but members don't seem too concerned about this slippery-slope. I think it would be foolish to take this bill at face value.

reply to post by ZeuZZ


Now we are catching on. Many laws are inacted to stop corruption, [the rico laws come to mind] but instead of being used to stop political and corporate corruption the are turned against the people. How long will it take for many of us to be labeled as political dissidents and placed in either a work camp or a mental institute. It now seems that terrorism is quickly becoming a synonym for dissenter.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by kosmicjack


kj,The term "planned use" is wide open and very close to thought control. When one cannot think freely than one is truly being manipulated. I truly respect the intent of our legislatures, but you cannot police the thoughts of the citizens. Certainly it wouldn,t take much to drop the term violence from any of this proposed legislation.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

The biggest mistake that people make is to assume that this type of draconian legislation is aimed at others where most do not see it aimed at them. But that is the whole reason for such legislation, under normal circumstances this legislation would not stand, but the powers that be create the environment where it is easy to introduce such measures which all along was for the control of the populace and not some self created terrorist group.

Corporate America wishes to control the globe it can only achieve this end if it has total control of the Goverment and the people of the US. This is what has been happening for some time, many point to 9/11 as the precursor but in reality its been going on for some time, 9/11 merely accelerated this process.

Can you control a populace who have a right to bear arms and do exercise that right no you cannot therefore events have to take place where the right to bear arms is seen as a risk and that is exactly what is happening now.

Expect more of the same, more talk of dissention, not being patriotic, being spied upon, reported to the authorities, RP your right its is just what the Nazis did and what others have done. Look up the 14 ways to Fascism and then look at whats happening inside the US.

mm,
we are not to far apart in our views. If new legislation is passed one might be accused of plotting violence against the government, if you were to suggest that the second amendment was put in place as the final check in our checks and balance system. That alone is enough to scare the pants off of me. The bible says to be wary when men say good is evil and evil is good.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

It would seem that the new legislation is more to gain control of the people than to control terrorism. Is a peaceful demonstration terrorism? Is speaking your mind an act of terrorism? At one time a person could disagree with the powers that be and be considered an upright caring citizen. Now if you quote the Constitution you are considered a terrorist suspect and a heretic. I believe in my country as it was founded. The country hasn't changed only the govt.

respectively

reluctantpawn