Proof:Do we even need it any more?

Be sure to hold your collectives breathes for a long long time waiting for your ridiculous X-Files smoking gun.

I come here for entertainment purposes, to even consider going to any of these sites for any other reason is down-right foolish. Especially "scientific discussions about the global UFO issue" LOL laughable fiction. I often wonder how some peeps on the UFO tip even get through life as functional people, seem to be living in some dreamscape of pseudo-reality filled with goblins, witches, flying people, ufos, alien races and fables.

Take anyone Topic Thread here and show me even ONE example of proof, please. Until then the skeptics will always have the last word and will continue to put things into perspective for the fantasy-minded dreamers.

So, this goes out to anyone worldwide, its time to give us something we can actually finally say is 100% proof of the existence of an alien race. Enough is enough, i find it hard to believe that there is not one person globally that can even closely produce anything remotely resembling anything anywhere close to Proof. Its all lip service and BS...and it will continue to be so until someone proves anything. I have never in all my 40 years have seen any topic/subject so beaten to death for soooo damn long with ZERO evidence to substantiate the MILLIONS of reports/claims found worldwide. It really is becoming a religious cult more than anything (see another post of mine)......i see nothing at all to indicate to me that aliens exist outside of our imaginations.....same type of hysteria caused by then misunderstood serial killers from history, these became stories of "monsters"....

so please share with me your usual skeptic bashing threading to my post in your vain attempts to support claims made by people you dont even know, and we'll debate.

I can not show any proof either way, but to think that earth is the only planet with life is down right ridiculous. Why would we be the only ones in the universe? It makes no sense.

Originally posted by netobrev
I can not show any proof either way, but to think that earth is the only planet with life is down right ridiculous. Why would we be the only ones in the universe? It makes no sense.

Why doesnt it make sense? Science is always evolving. At this point, the scientific evidence for life on other worlds is next to nil. I say next to because of that successful test for organic life on Mars.

Its like standing in a desert, surrounded by small white rocks. Pick one up and look at it. Is it white? Why yes, yes it is. Pick another one up. Is it white too? Yep. Pick yet another one up, its also white. Pick up 5000 white rocks in a row.

What makes sense more sense? Will the next rock you pick up be white... Or black? Can you with certainty say that ANY of the rocks is going to be black? No you cant.

Life on other worlds will only make sense once we've actually found and confirmed a black roc... I mean life on another planet. Until then, it makes just as much sense to deny it as it does thinking life on other planets exist.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by merka]

universe too big you say? life HAS to exist outside our solar system/planet you say? ok....prove it with some mathmatical equations as to why its FACTUALLY scientifically viable that that average has to be true...why can it be JUST as true that we are alone? on what scientific fact do you base ..cant be alone in the universe? in our solar system alone we have multiple planets, they arent populated by even simple single celled bacteria...so? i ask you why cant that be true for ALL other planets?

You've got to do better than these overused cliches.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by blueyedevil666]

[edit on 30-11-2007 by blueyedevil666]

The problem today is people can use 3d software packages and their PC to produce amazing effects and fake footage. Even if a real image or video was to surface today I'm afraid it will be labeled CGI or Photo shopped. The smoking gun is already reveled in my opinion and that is years of eye witness accounts going back thousands of years.

TopSecret is a big deal in government projects and national security counts on the secrets to stay that way. I think there's life out there too, but I can't say that any of these flying saucers and ufo's are alien or technology from aliens. Sometimes I wonder if people are jeopordizing our countries defense and security by nosing in on top secret facilities and such. I've never seen an alien so I can't believe in one. The reptilian aliens are a joke in my opinion. I think the human race is smarter than what the public thinks. Especially the scientist and engineers that are in those secret facilities that have everytning they need to accomplish their projects.
I guess to many stories, movies and video games of aliens have really got people thinking about them. But then you got people that see opportunity financially to make alot of money by hoaxing pictures, books and video's of alien's and their technology. You also got credible witnesses like pilots and government officials, astronauts etc.. that make a good case that aliens exist. So I basically don't know the truth and hope that people can find it out by using their own commonsense. I like what Team ATS is doing right now on the subject by using their commonsense and documentation to seek out the truth. To many people are hollowing I've seen aliens and have been abducted or Reptilians exist I know it etc..
If we ever find out the truth it will be by people who go about it in a descent way with facts, documentation, credible witnesses and science.
So now I'll give my answer to your question. Yes we still need proof more than anything now, thanks to all the hoaxers and disinformation groups that give ufology a bad rap. You don't give up so easy on something you have a passion for, and I do believe there are people that will always question the possibilities of aliens, their technologies and what we've done with it, if anything. I hope that the truth does come out and it benefits the whole human race. Alot of people are tired of the lies and secrets that all humans should know. Maybe they'll find out that aliens do exist or maybe they'll find out it was all human ingenuity and aliens had nothing to do with it. Either way I hope we find out cause I'm tired of Reptilian threads and clouds outside a window with a face in it threads.

Ancient hieroglyphics depicting flying saucers is some of the best evidence since ancient humans were not capable of flight. At least if we believe there were no advanced ancient civilizations... If something like atlantis did exist and they did have the capability to fly then maybe the hieroglyphics were just misinterpretations.

Any "smoking gun" evidence is likely collected by government officials or debunked with some other "fact" (ie. balloon experiments at Roswell). As for why? Who knows. Yet I'm reminded of how the Vatican hid the fact that the earth revolved around the sun for a few hundred years.

As for the eye-witness accounts, there's tons of it. I've seen craft myself. No pictures I'm afraid, and even if I did have pictures, people would just shout "hoax! cgi!". And I wouldn't blame them, because as a graphic designer I would easily be able to create fake images of the UFOs I've seen.

Something to consider is that there's more circumstantial evidence for aliens/ufos than there is for the existence of Jesus Christ and various other deities. Yet they are worshiped on a daily basis by billions of people.

I can't tell you for sure if aliens exist, but I calculate the odds, and the odds are they exist. With as many stars as there are in the universe, it's more probable than not that aliens exist. In fact I'd say that it's also probable that some are here observing our species right now.

The Drake Equation

Originally posted by cloakndagger
The problem today is people can use 3d software packages and their PC to produce amazing effects and fake footage. Even if a real image or video was to surface today I'm afraid it will be labeled CGI or Photo shopped. The smoking gun is already reveled in my opinion and that is years of eye witness accounts going back thousands of years.

Great post cloakndagger,
As I have perused this forum for the past year, I kept seeing that people wanted positive proof. How does one prove his/her proof is really proof?

While I can barely get on the net I would have no reason to post anything fake, (wish I had a camera almost 2 years ago) there are obviously many that want for something that only fake proof can give them. That may be attention, could this be all they want? I tend to say yes.

I agree with cloakndagger, I believe we have seen positive proof. I also believe the government has been hiding that proof for many years.

Though I agree in principle with the OP's comments: we're here to be entertained, there have been some new ideas that have come out of discussing the reality or unreality of alien visitation.

I've come up with a novel idea about what it takes to be a space faring civilization, for one thing (not posted yet).

Is it believeable? Hard to say. One person's direct experience versus theories notwithstanding, there's room from some alternate reality in a view of the world. Did we not all marvel at the tales of Carlos Castaneda while reading "Journey to Ixtalan" and even go beyond suspension of disbelief?

As far as the probability of life in the -Universe-, any life, including microbes, there is some evidence already.

What? Research the persistence of staphlococcus bacteria on parts of equipment recovered from the Moon. Consider that bacteria can live inside meteors and there are some theories that Earth was seeded by such an impact.

In addition, imagine the probability that there is no other life of any kind in the Galaxy, let alone in the Universe. Though there's probably some proscription to calculating the probability of something that's improbable, it would be stunning, no?

So, rather, consider using the premise to develop your arguments and logic. Then, you can talk about the subject with a fair degree of serious discussion without suspending your disbelief.

2 cents.

patefacio toxica egalitarianism there are two misspellings in this post

Just seems like alot of wasted space if there's no other intelligent life out there in our universe. Maybe there's more than one universe too! There's a hell of alot of galaxies out there and I can't imagine that we're the only ones that got all the water and life.

Originally posted by blueyedevil666
I have never in all my 40 years have seen any topic/subject so beaten to death for soooo damn long with ZERO evidence to substantiate the MILLIONS of reports/claims found worldwide. It really is becoming a religious cult more than anything (see another post of mine)

I don't agree with your characterization of the UFO subject.

Personally, I think religions - which have been around a lot longer than the UFO subject - have less evidence to substantiate their claims than the UFO topic does.

The difference is that with religions, a 'believer' only has to say "I have faith it's real" or "you have to believe to see it" for the argument to be over.

With the UFO subject not so much. People ask for scientific proof, and rightly so in my opinion.

Still in the area of comparison, how many studies have been made by the intelligence/military community in terms of asserting the claims of religions? And regarding UFOs? Exactly.

The government/intelligence/military agencies took/take the subject seriously. We know this from declassified documents, even though at the time (and even today) these agencies said they had no interest in the subject.
Could these agencies lie or suppress the truth from the people? I have to say yes, taking into consideration everything we know from history and the way the government/military acts.

So, should we take their word that there's nothing to the phenomena? No, I don't think we should. So what can we do? Continue investigating, debating and searching.

Regarding your argument that it has become a religious cult, you can't help that some people deal with some subjects 'spiritually'.
There will always be people who attribute magical/divine powers to things they don't understand/know.

And then there are others who push these religious/spiritual ideas in order to sell something.

I assure you that these things worry, frustrate and anger people who really want to get to the bottom of things. People who are searching for the truth to the UFO phenomena, scientifically.

Notice that the motto of ATS is not "deny skepticism", it is "deny ignorance". Please don't put everyone who claims to be in ufology in the same bag.

I really think that we don't understand gravity, magnetism, anti gravity etc... Like I said before, alot of those great minds are working for the secret governments in this world. What if they know? I will never say anythings impossible. It's just understanding how it works. A pilot in our atmosphere can only handle so many "G's" before the pass out or die. What if we change that inside a craft and it doesn't matter. And can you get "G's" in outerspace?
I think it's possible to do anything we put our minds to, and the possibility of intelligent life being here is undeniable. We got alot to learn and haven't been here long enough to learn it all yet.

[edit on 11/30/2007 by Solarskye]

reply to post by Kruel


Sorry, Charlie, the Drake equation says -nothing- about ET visitation.

It is only about ability to communicate at a distance by sending out an active signal. Perhaps it would be instructive to read the link you posted?

Not trying to put you down, just trying to promote understanding of this oft missunderstood theory.

It's much better to talk about possibility of:
1. life, any life in the Milky Way galaxy
2. sentient life in the Milky Way
3. likelyhood that a full blown expedition would come here, including the financial costs of such a thing.
...and other ideas.



patefacio toxica egalitarianism there are two misspellings in this post


[edit on 30-11-2007 by Badge01]

reply to post by blueyedevil666


maybe this'll change soon...proof is proof...im encouraged to learn of your integrity on the matter...i need 20 posts 2 personally contact ats member yeahright, so i hope this is considered a post?...thanks

I can not show any proof either way, but to think that earth is the only planet with life is down right ridiculous. Why would we be the only ones in the universe? It makes no sense.

Just becuase other civilizations may exist somwhere in the universe does not mean they are visiting us in space ships. I see this arguement alot from pro-ufo people. Please stop getting the 2 confused. thanks