VG1991 - Mr Stone for real?

With TEAM ATS on Roswell interviewing Clifford Stone, I thought I'd give us a chance to discuss a specific comment in the past by Mr Stone. VG 1991.

First, those who don't know him, here is some background on Clifford Stone who authored a book entitled "Ufos Are Real: Extraterrestrial Encounters Documented by the U.S. Government ".

Here is the video where you can hear him, you'll notice the excerpt about asteroid VG 1991, not being an asteroid but an alien craft!

The full transcript is available here

So, if we do a little digging on this "asteroid", there sure is some interesting data to support his claims! Not the least of which is the report by the Australian PHD Dr Duncan Steel.

His report is here

Finally, here is all the data on the object, with this link you can track it, zoom in..etc..Notice how its orbit is the same as that of the earths.

So..whatcha all think ?

This is actually the first ive ever heard of VG1991 and SG344...
very interesting stuff..

after reading through a few articles.. I would bet 1991 was a probe and 344 was the ship...

digitalseance.wordpress.com...
^a good article..

Well, he does have references which seem legit, here is a list, perhaps we can put more research into the references to find some more clues.


(1) P. A. L. Chapman-Rietschi, The Observatory,114, 174, 1994.
(2) A. V. Arkhipov, The Observatory,113, 306, 1993.
(3) R. A. Freitas, Jr., ]BIS, 36, 501, 1983.
(4) R. A. Freitas, Jr., Spaceflight, 26, 438, 1984.
(5) M.D. Papagiannis, QJRAS, 19, 277, 1978.
(6) D. G. Stephenson, QJRAS, 20, 422, 1979.
(7) M. J. Carlotto & M. C Stein, JBIS, 43, 209, 1990.
(8) R. A. Freitas, Jr., JBIS, 36, 490, 1983.
(9) R. A. Freitas, Jr., lcarus, 55, 337, 1983.
(10) E. J. Betinis, JBIS, 31, 217, 1978.
(11) F. J. Tipler, QJRAS, 21, 267, 1980.
(I2) F. J. Tiplcr, QJRAS, 22, 279, 198I.
(13) D. L. Rabinowitz et al., Nature, 363, 704, 1993.
(14) IAU Circ. 5387.
(I5) IAU Circ. 5388.
(16) IAU Circ. 5401.
(17) Minor Planet Circ. 20823.
(18) IAU Circ.5402.
(19) The Messenger (ESO), no. 66, 66, 1991.
(20) S. J. Ostro, personal communication.
(21) Minor Planet Cite. 20745.
(22). G. King-Hele et al., The RAE Table of Earth Satellites, .3rd Edn. (Macrnillan, London), 1987.
(23) Satellite Situation Report, NASA-Goddard Space Flight Center, 33, no. 4, 1993.
(24) D. I. Steel, MNRAS, in press.
(25) C. F. Chyba, Nature, 363, 701, 1993.
(26) D. L. Rabinowitz, lcarus, 111, 364, 1994.
(27) J. V. Scotti, personal communication.
(28) N. L. Johnson & D. S. McKnight, Artificial Space Debris, (Orbit Book Co., Malabar. F!orida), 1987.
(29) S. H. Knowles, Orbital Debris: Technical Issues and Future Directions, NASA CP-10077. 1992, p. 235.
(30) D. Morrison (ed.), The Spaceguard Survey: Report of the NASA Near-Earth-Object Detection Workshop (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California), 1992.

He says 1991 VG was also observed in 1992 April with larger telescopes at Kitt Peak, would they have taking pictures? If so, can we find them in a database anyone?

From what I can read the object is a tad small for pictures..

I found this and this data from the astronomical community.

Pretty funny, "The object might be a returning spacecraft."....

And here are comments from the Astronomer who discovered the asteroid, Jim Scotti, Wed, 17 Jul 1996

On November 8, I already
suggested to Brian Marsden that perhaps it might be a Saturn IVB stage,
but it was only a wild guess at trying to explain the Earth-like orbit.
The disconcerting thing is that an object in such an orbit would not last
very long - how could it be natural?
...
Marsden integrated the orbit backwards, hoping to improve
the predictions for an attempt to observe 1991 VG with radar by linking it
to a manmade spacecraft. He found that it had been in the vicinity of
Earth last in about 1973 or 1974, but only got within about 0.07AU. That
suggested the Helios A spacecraft booster, a Centaur upper stage.
Jonathan McDowell contacted General Dynamics and found out that that
booster was put back into a Geocentric orbit after dumping the Helios
Spacecraft.



Why is this interesting you ask?

For 2 very good reasons:

1, it turns out to be ET.
2, it turns out to be nada, which punches a hole through Clifford Stone's stories (like it did for hoagland and his mars theories).

I too tried to research the asteroid he mentioned, but I couldn't quite make out what letters he was referring to. I'm glad we nailed this one down because this is a huge piece of (potential) evidence that will make or break not only Sgt. Stone's case, but the whole UFOs are aliens case as well.

EDIT: It is suspicious though that Stone mentions this asteroid AFTER the Duncan Steel paper and other claims that it might be an alien probe. It would have been better if Stone was the first to say it.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by Riposte]

Originally posted by Riposte
...I'm glad we nailed this one down because this is a huge piece of (potential) evidence that will make or break not only Sgt. Stone's case, but the whole UFOs are aliens case as well.

It's not often, but sometimes we get these threads where I can sink my teeth into; and actually validate with certainty the claims of a ufo witness/expert/author...

VG1991 is real and trackable and anomalous... from the little I've learned the albedo is by some accounts "not quite right". The next pass seems it will be closely evaluated.

Mr. Stone? After watching the '01 NPC ala Greer and hearing Mr. Stone's "57 varieties" comment? Um, if (humour me), there is some conspiracy against the "outting of the truth" by the PTB then what is this human doing still walking around amongst the living?

Lotsa dead UFO folks what with "accidents" and "natural" causes and "random acts of violence". How is it this specific person is still a "player"? I'm young and educated to the possibilty that "things are not always what they seem", so I asked my Dad at breakfast,"What's up with this Stone guy? Is he for real or just surreal?"

My Dad has this guy's history dialed-in (I had to listen to Father-Dear for about 45 minutes) and I've been given access to Pop's collected notes in his Stone directory which runs back to 1988, but not his hand written notes. Dad rhymed off chapter and verse without characterization what he has as fact about Mr. Stone. Dad finished, slurped a sip of coffee and winked, I was told to, "find out for myself".

So I will.

Just as a preliminary impression, I'm left wondering if this fellow is part of the problem or an agent of solution, if not both.

If I was a really smart "handler of negative forces and people" I'd be using Stone to torpedo anything "big" and ingratiate him in the community that was perceived to be a threat of disclosing that which my hypothetical masters would want "handled".

My mind is open - but I smell subterfuge and deceit - maybe not from Stone per se but from something about or near Stone. I'm going to spend some time today after practice and work on this but I'm not going to look at Dad's stuff until I hit the "inevitable problems". A quickie search at ATS does find some things.

[Aside] Perhaps I don't understand how to use it effectively but golly is this site search engine a lame-tard excuse for a tool. Is there no way to get it to do advanced searches?

Over 50 varieties of aliens "that we know of"... OK. I was told to find out for myself.

So I will.

Mira

[edit on 1-12-2007 by Mira_of_lurk0more]

...as someone mentioned and provided a link to, this NEO object seems a lot closer then Stone alludes to. In the NASA model/simulator, it's actually in an exact orbit w/ the Earth.... here's the link again, it's a "JPL Small-Body Database" and the link leads right to the object in question:

ssd.jpl.nasa.gov...

I just like this guy and really liked what he was saying. The asteroid/object he describes looks to be real. But I am in my thirties and never really "looked into" UFO stuff but as of late I have felt pulled to looking into some of it.

I think I myself was abducted as a child but payed no mind to it as a youth. I was 5 years old and playing outside with my brother. All I remember was seeing him on the swing set and I was doing my normal routine of walking around the yard looking up and as always, cloud watching. I still look up often and more often these days at night.

But, as I was saying I looked up. I saw something very quick like flash. It was silver and very bright. I could swear and did when I told the few people I told that this thing had an american flag on it! I know (insert laughter here).

Seriously, my hand hurts like hell but I still want to type this up for those who are looking into this guy Cliff Stone. My little story is a big nothing compared to all I have seen but growing up I could not let this "vision" go for years until I was a teen. I since then just chalk it up to my imagination or a daydream type thing. To any extent the sight was so real and for whatever reason my mom remembers this moment and her memory is not usually that good. So here it is in the best way I can explain it:

--- 1979 ---- Summer (June)

I look up see the silver thing. It appears high in the sky towards the sun. It was shaped sort of like a rocket capsule but (again you can make this stuff up but why?) and it had a tail but no wings. Then (like a blink) it was in front of me and and I walked up to it quickly but was not scared. I got close but could not touch it. The next thing I know I am turning around only to see my brother heading for the house running and crying.

My mom thought I had done something to him but that was not so. I followed him in after I noticed nothing was there. I know, strange. It was fast and bizarre, my mind was really fuzzy. I do not remember what happened next.

Time went on and when I was 13-15 I asked my mom about that day because I did remember that she was angry and that I had this memory in my head. She said we were playing outside for a few minutes and then my brother ran inside crying0. and would not talk for hours but was really acting scared. He was shaking, not talking crying but not sobbing. Like screaming crying that a baby would do. My mom she had ground me to my room but I have no memory of that. She also said I was very clam and acting very serious and suddenly very adult.

The part of this I thought unusual is when she said that we were outside only a few minutes. But my memory was that this was a few hours. It's reverse of what I hear about in UFO shows. I seriously came in the house feeling tired and as if I had been playing for hours. The reason I even asked her about this was out of curiosity but then when I realized that my time reference was way off I got even more curious. I told her what I thought I saw and she laughed.

The next unusual and what I now think might be related moment was when I was 16. I was sleeping and woke up very suddenly in the night. Don't know what time but it was in the am before sunup. I could not move, I felt that someone was in my room. I never was scared of the dark but this was scary for me at that moment. I was laying on my stomach and felt a "finger or elbow" in the middle of my back and I was stuck in one position, dead silence and all I saw was black.

I kept having the feeling that at any moment I could kick hard and get whatever was holding me down. I could not move but I was breathing and felt normal except for this strange pressure in my middle to lower back.

I finally rolled over quickly and nothing was there. I know I felt as if at least a half hour had passed. I walked it off and took a leak. The next day mom said I had pinched a nerve. End of story at that point. Now I see these sites and videos and just wonder?

VG 1991 is certainly an interesting object indeed!

I know Mr. Stone posts on this site, I am also aware he has done a great deal to compile a huge selection of FOIA documents as well - the most interesting, as it seems, have yet to be posted. That aside I started a thread some time ago named The Case for Clifford Stone and that pretty much puts my perspective on his 'story' so to speak.

Back onto the subject of VG......

So, if we do a little digging on this "asteroid", there sure is some interesting data to support his claims! Not the least of which is the report by the Australian PHD Dr Duncan Steel.

The probable reality is that he probably read this somewhere and wrapped a story around it.

A nice god faring gentleman he may be, doesn't stop anyone from spinning a neat little story for fun.

...older article about object in question:

articles.adsabs.harvard.edu...

Mentioning there's a 90% chance it's an "alien vessel" and using their theory, in turn, could equate to "hundreds of alien vessels" in a specific t-orbit "presently" around the Sun.

www.setv.org...

[edit on 8-10-2008 by arktkchr]

I heard SG344 was a spacecraft as well...

en.wikipedia.org...



WHY is NASA going to this asteroid in 2030 instead of MARS?
1 in 544 chances of hitting earth.

I believe Clifford Hill is a very ill man, or he is desperate for cash. I mean my granpa could tell incredible stories, and I would always say at the end..is that a true story granpa, and he would just smile and wink at me. Great stories, no evidence to back up any of it.

Originally posted by Mr_skepticc
I believe Clifford Hill is a very ill man, or he is desperate for cash. I mean my granpa could tell incredible stories, and I would always say at the end..is that a true story granpa, and he would just smile and wink at me. Great stories, no evidence to back up any of it.

Hi Mr Skeptic.

You mention the importance of evidence to back up 'stories'.

So, in light of that, can I ask you for evidence to back up your suggestion that Clifford Stone (not 'Hill') is "a very ill man or desperate for cash" and that this is motivating his telling "incredible stories"?


[edit on 2-1-2010 by Malcram]

reply to post by Mira_of_lurk0more


If you believe in the 50 types of ALIENS visit this page :-

ufoclearinghouse.webs.com...

Originally posted by Riposte
I too tried to research the asteroid he mentioned, but I couldn't quite make out what letters he was referring to. I'm glad we nailed this one down because this is a huge piece of (potential) evidence that will make or break not only Sgt. Stone's case, but the whole UFOs are aliens case as well.

EDIT: It is suspicious though that Stone mentions this asteroid AFTER the Duncan Steel paper and other claims that it might be an alien probe. It would have been better if Stone was the first to say it.

Riposte, that is a VERY insightful comment! The rest of the Stone stories are the same -- derivitive of published reports, if related to reality; purely imaginary, if not. IMHO.

The 'returning spacecraft' could be human in origin since the orbits are disturbed by fuel leaks and by photon pressure--- and one spectragram showed the 'white' matched a known Apollo-era spacecraft paint.



[edit on 2-1-2010 by JimOberg]

reply to post by senshido


Sgt Stone is for real, of that I'm sure but of course he could've been fed disinformation, it's happened to the best of them.
Those who claim he has no evidence for his claims must be asleep, Stone has stacks of declassified documents to back up his claims. Not one of the people who accuse Sgt Stone of dishonesty has been able to present ANY evidence to support their claims. Their only argument seems to be that the stories are too way out, too unbelievable. This says more about the minds of these debunkers than it says about Sgt Stone's credibility. They still cling to the narrow view of the world to which they've been conditioned. These people simply cannot handle the truth, pure and simple. It wouldn't matter how much evidence was presented, they've dug in their heels......

Potential impact of VG 1991

2101-11-21
NASA

I believe him, can't explain why, I just do. He seems really genuine.
dos line-o