Can someone please explain this quote by Friedrich Nietzsche in relation to the whole 911 Truth Mov

Here is the quote by Friedrich Nietzsche:

Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster.
And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

I dont know what it is exactly, but those words just made me stop and think.
I have all of this rage/frustration inside of me, at my inability to direct more peoples attention to the NWO agenda, and i feel helpless that my voice isint strong enough, and that in turn makes me .........i soooo desperately want us to turn around and defeat the globalists from takin over our freedoms bit by bit, and seeing them stride towards their goal of making all of us just afraid, afraid that "the terrorists are going to get us" while our own 'government' is behind it all!
i think i am losing my mind......it is too big for me? it is too big, i just stagger at the sheer mammoth size of the evil that is responsible for all this damn mess , i know, but that dosent mean i cant do anything right?
but i get frustrated thinking its never going to be enough.....
and even if it isint, i still have to go on, and i will go on.
is it wrong to wish that we had more help, that things would be a little easier?

what i am trying to say is, when i see that people just wanting to ignore the facts about the holes in the official story, and yet, they just continue on with their lives as if they are too buzy.too buzy to pause and think of what is happining....too buzy to see that they are being conned...........and i then judge them,...........

how do i make sure that i dont turn into a monster myself??
please help.


MOD EDIT - added quote tags

[edit on 30-11-2007 by elevatedone]

just stay back, and relax, we all have a short life.
dont be so paranoid about the nwo and stuff like that
remeber is them vs a few people.

also if people want to ignore the facts, is their own fault, worry about urself, be selfish when it comes to this.

also, they are nessecary for our survival in earth.
they reduce population [bad but neccesary]. they control the economy very well. and they are managing the global warming thing very well too.
remeber they are egomaniaks, they will do something if it means they will die too

if u are aware enough, u will not fall into their fear trap, worry about urself, not the other blind people who dont want to listen.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by Drzava]

reply to post by vladmir


I believe the first part about monsters is talking about how the truth movement is now using propoganda, and yes, lies to further their agenda also. Becoming the monster that they are fighting against.

Just my interpretation of it.

reply to post by Drzava


yes, lol, i need to r e l a x . s
sorry i was freaking out its just too much you know?
i think i just have to recognise that there was a time not too far back when i was asleep too. its just that my waking up has been like a continious nightmare......starting with what happened on 911.
i need to .... be calm and understanding, and just do my small bit.
whew, thanks for the reassurance.......Mods sorry if this is a strange place to post my rant, i apologise.

[edit on 30-11-2007 by Vanitas]

reply to post by vladmir


I don't see why you would want to establish a connection between these words and any "agenda" or, indeed, any outside events, Vladmir. If those words made you "stop and think", it's because - I assume - you comprehended their value as a description of a process to which the human psyche is susceptible. That's all there is to it.

And BTW, while I do like those words - because, in my opinion, they express a deep truth - Nietzsche is not someone you'd want to follow if you want to stay sane - both in the ordinary and the spiritual sense of the word.




[edit on 30-11-2007 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas


yes you know Vanitas you are right. it is this trying to understand the human psyche that just made me loose my balance, i just cant understand it...how can someone do this to us?? i tried to see it from 'their' angle, and i just couldnt, it was too dark. it is too dark. and it defies normal human life-nourishing logic......
anyway,i guess if i dont want to be susseptible, i just need to look at the positive side of life,
that darkness is truly weak,thats why it hides from the light, and life is strong.

Originally posted by vladmir

You hang in there, buddy. ; )

There's nothing wrong with delving into the mysteries of the human mind and the Universe (which, I suspect, are one and the same : )) - on the contrary.

But when you feel the abyss staring back at you... it's best to step back - at least until you grow stronger. ; )




[edit on 30-11-2007 by Vanitas]

Maybe what the quote is saying is : when you look at a petroleum based society, combined with the military idustrial complex, while we're not directly involved with the 911 attacks, we're definitly involved if we benefit from said society and complex.

So there is guilt. Stare to long and it will consume you.

through an act of will power and will power alone can meaning be derived from life.

if you truely comprehend the abyss you can begin to grasp the motivation of the elite...hence my namesake who inspired part of the neoconservative movement under which we find our current dilemma.

The necessary illusions for the common man.

But ofcourse beneath this bold assertion is a quiet insecurity masked by bluster and a terrible violence.

it is leadership and the quality of that leadership that is of utmost importance.

I believe the decadence of the old european elite has finally infected america.

I experience daily very closely to what you are going through (without being you), and I let it get the best of me sometimes. I think that it may be easier for me, however, to handle because I have done much reading into Holy Scriptures, and I place my faith into Whom they are written of. The conflict we witness is the fulfillment of things now and to come as prophesied in them.

So although I believe you should do all you can to fight this evil. At some point you cannot hold yourself personally responsible for the outcome. You are only held responsible for what you do regarding what is in your care. Don't be too hard on yourself. The mere fact that you are aware, places you well ahead of others. Now that you are not deceived you can strive to make a difference.

If you believe as I do that these things must come, then you can be reassured that you were created to do far more than stop this evil - because it may be that it has to come - PERIOD. And if you realize that the evil behind it is too dark for you; I find this a blessing to you as such evil comes from the anti-Christ and the Devil. Thus be counted glad that you do not partake in its full understanding: It is meant to deceive and oppress.

In short I believe that you cannot fight a monster without becoming one because to destroy one you need to become one yourself, otherwise what have you, or are you, in fighting such evil. There is also this warning: he who fights by the sword dies by the sword.

I believe you are aware of this already in that you don’t want to become what you wish to destroy. Awareness is huge my friend. I am a Christian, however, sometimes in my hearts desire - had I the power to destroy the monster you speak of – would crush it in a swooping and violent blow. Though I know this is not realistic, nor what I am called to do - I am called to be a lamb.

This monster is a wolf, and just as a lamb, being an herbivore, has little understanding into the wolf, only fear, so we are to rely, as the lamb, on our shepherd for protection.

We all have a dark side, and if we can understand it, we can put ourselves in the shoes of the people who are "of the darkness", ....and either we can learn from them, or we can "become" them by buying into whatever reality they serve up for us.

You have a right to be utterly confused and pissed. I, for one, cannot stand this type of lifestyle 99.9% of the population just accepts and drones on doing day after day ANYMORE. I'm 22 now, and I can't even count the number of jobs I've had and given up on because there just ain't no point, when you're already the outcast. What are we working towards? Death? Why do I need to amass any of this stuff? I don't intend on having a family. Why would I wanna bring any children into a robotic mind controlled hell like this? Why do I even wanna be completely independant and away from my immediate family? I'm a loner who gets alone. I don't wanna be alone, out there in a world that doesn't get it.

I guess being pretty well removed from society, I have the advantage of automatically being quite a few steps back to see the greater picture.

I'm lucky, in the sense that I have a very supportive family who gets me, and unfortunately most people have very one track minded relatives that play the wolves in sheeps clothing that the government counts on to keep each other in order. What a shame. That is why I speak out. I know people are bitter, and they will snap back and say "You just don't understand, because you haven't been working 9 to 5 your whole life trying to support a family." I understand , though. I've been there, maybe not in this lifetime, but certainly in other lifetimes, and certainly when I have a very strong empathetic ability, I just know how it feels to be forced into a certain mindset.
Some people are so forced into it, that they grow to love it. I get that, too. They grow to love it, because if they hated what their whole life was about, they would feel worthless.

Anyway... the point I'm tryig to make is this. Never let this illusion get the best of you. Find your own way to free yourself from it, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how many people tell you that you are wrong.

Originally posted by Vanitas
But when you feel the abyss staring back at you... it's best to step back - at least until you grow stronger. ; )

Wise and practical advice.
And pregnant with meaning.
Thank you.

Originally posted by Father Yetti
And if you realize that the evil behind it is too dark for you; I find this a blessing to you as such evil comes from the anti-Christ and the Devil. Thus be counted glad that you do not partake in its full understanding: It is meant to deceive and oppress.
.....I believe you are aware of this already in that you don’t want to become what you wish to destroy. Awareness is huge my friend. I am a Christian, however, sometimes in my hearts desire - had I the power to destroy the monster you speak of – would crush it in a swooping and violent blow.

Oh you understood what i was hopelessly trying to express.
Awareness and faith and love and respect of life ,
i am realising, is the true antidote to this poison, and not 'rage' and'revenge' per se.

reply to post by indierockalien

It is uncanny friend, that how much of what you have written in your post literally applies to me as well. Thanks for your advice when you say
"Find your own way to free yourself from it, no matter how hard it is, how long it takes, or how many people tell you that you are wrong."

vladmir

like the quote says,
you wont become a monster.

do not worry as you're not alone, at all. i too have had these frustrations and concerns.

the path you're on is the right one, and you wont feel under this pressure forever.

remember, the real truth is that our reality and our existences are far more complex than we will ever really know. there are infinate possiblities for what is to come.

i believe there is a balance in the universe no matter how bad things may seem here, although currently it does seem there are those who are disrupting that balance quite significantly and we could be entering a bad period..in time good will overcome that. those who detatch us from nature will stir up the consciousness of this earth.

i think it's important to believe that we do have individual power and influence on the bigger picture...we're all part of the same network at the end of the day. do not think that you are powerless and your concerns or perceptions will lead you nowhere.

talking with others about this does matter, and it does inspire change. many people today have the opposite opinion it seems...coinsidently the sense of self and individual power is somewhat lacking in our communities...

it does matter that we talk about these things, that you express your frustrations it is a good thing.

i think many people are hypnotised and need a wake up call. it will come. until then don't stop expressing yourself and don't worry that people might think of you badly. you have this fire so use it, don't let it burn you up inside. sooner than you think you'll feel good, and realise the positivity that you can inspire.

about the quote too - it says the abyss will stare back... i think that it means your perceptions will communicate in some way with the bigger picture. i think it means perceptions important, and the abyss recognises it.

you may not agree with the things i've said but, briefly, that's my thoughts. i hope it helps to ease your worries.


[edit on 2-12-2007 by tetragrammation]

reply to post by tetragrammation


Eric Clapton - Pilgrim

And how do I choose and where do I draw the line
Between truth and necessary pain?
And how do I know and where do I get my belief
That things will be all right again?
What words do I use to try and explain
To those who have witnessed all my tears?
And what does it mean to know all these things
When love's been wasted all these years
When love's been wasted all these years.

Standing in the shadows
With my heart right in my hand,
Removed from other people
Who could never understand.
I was a pilgrim for your love,
A pilgrim for your love,
A pilgrim for your love,
I was a pilgrim for your love.

It's like living in a nightmare,
Like looking in the blackest hole,
Like standing on the edge of nothing,
Completly out of control.
Now where have I been all these years
And how come I just couldn't see?
Like a blind man walking 'round in darkness,
I was a pilgrim for your love,
I was a pilgrim for your love.
Standing in the shadows
With my heart right in my hand,
Removed from other people
Who could never understand.
Chorus
I was a pilgrim for your love.
A pilgrim for your love.
I was a pilgrim.
Pilgrim for your love

Thanks for your reassuring words, i needed that. I think we all do.
Its great to be on a forum where you put yourself out there, totally vulnerable, dont know what to expect,
and then have beautiful people respond to you with words of comfort and strength, at a time when desperately want to cling on to some hope!






[edit on 3-12-2007 by vladmir]

Whoever battles with monsters had better see that it does not turn him into a monster.

This quote is very applicable to the 911 truth movement, but not in the way that most people imagine. The truth movement may have it's faults but it is far from montrous, yet.

The most classic example of what Nietzche was talking about is the phenomenon of "false flag" terrorism, in which the entities fighting against terrorism, the Bush administration, for example, become terrorists themselves.

A more distant but well documented example is shown in a good documentary film about Operation Gladio, that exposes terrorist acts performed by the Italian government against it's own people, during the height of the "red brigades" scares of the 70's. The link is to the first of three parts:

Google Video Link

In some cases governments become even more monstrous than the entities they are fighting.



[edit on 3-12-2007 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by Griff
I believe the first part about monsters is talking about how the truth movement is now using propoganda, and yes, lies to further their agenda also. Becoming the monster that they are fighting against.

Just my interpretation of it.

Yeah if you want to bring it to a personal level, some people will have some serious ego drawn out of them, too. And there are pretty vivid examples of how ego has no problem compensating for stupidity on any large internet forum, I would wager. Happens on both "sides" but depending on which "side" you are on, it could also be hypocritical if you fancy yourself something moral/right/"good" etc. etc.

Reply to bsbray.

Button wasn't working.

That's why I try and check the ego at the door here. Doesn't work all the time obviously. But, if we are to get anywhere other than just bickering back and forth with each other, then I feel common ground needs to be established on both sides. There are a few around here that I feel try and do this too. You're one of them.

Here's an even more apt Nietzsche quote, though it comes to the subject obliquely...

And let me confess it: I feel instinctively sure and certain that Lord Bacon was the originator, the self-tormentor of this uncanniest kind of literature: what is the pitiable chatter of American flat-and muddle-heads to me? But the strength required for the vision of the most powerful reality is not only compatible with the most powerful strength for action, for monstrous action, for crime--; it even presupposes it.

I take it out of context: this passage, from ECCE HOMO, ch. 4, concerns the Shakespeare authorship controversy. Nietzsche plants himself in the Baconian camp, but not without distancing himself from the American "muddle-heads" like Ignatius Donnelly , the "no planers" of their time, who poured over Elizabethan texts with the same crypto-hungry eyes as those who today pour over 9/11 footage in search of TV-fakery.

The phrase about the "vision of the most powerful reality" presupposing the "strength for action, for monstrous action" bears a certain resemblence to this infamous quotation...

We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

But what does this have to do with Francis Bacon? The frontispiece of his Instauratio Magna features the twin Pillars of Hercules, standing on either side of the Strait of Gibralter, being the limits of the old world. These would find their man-made mirror image in the new world some three and a half centuries later, but only over the brief span of a few decades...