Education of physics, so no aliens to visit us

What do you people think about current education in schools, colleges and universities in regards of math, physics and biology? What do you think about educating yourself by yourself, thus creating self-generated knowledge?

Are they doing something wrong when they educate physical laws that are proven with experiment and math, when the result of absorbing that knowledge is pretty much leading to denial of several alternatives usually discussed here on ATS.

We have this limitation of speed based on constant (some say it is not so constant) speed of light, which also appears to be the maximum possible.

We have biology that tells us about the impossibility for any biological entity to withstand radical G-forces when speeding up any airplane or spaceship. With, say, 200G acceleration every single bone in our body would crush, muscles would resemble tomato sauce and loss of consciousness would be immediate.

Thus, no high acceleration of alien ships.

These were just two examples of course, but common in these is that logic is extensively gained by axioms of math.

If you think about it, you'll realize that most people end up in product development or some other occupation that requires specific knowledge of physics.

If we look at it closely, we must realize that you'll have to get everything right for some product to work, there is no space for alternative theories in such development. Otherwise, you'll end up losing your job because you can't get a product to work.

Originally posted by rawsom
What do you people think about current education in schools, colleges and universities in regards of math, physics and biology?

It's not very good. I taught physics to pre-med students in my University, (lab, practice and tutoring sessions) and it's not great.

What do you think about educating yourself by yourself, thus creating self-generated knowledge?

Well, all knowledge is to an extent self generated. Hopefully, you read more than one textbook on the subject, and are able to compare and relate different ways of solving problems (I'm talking about physics now, but that would apply to more than that imho). If you are like me, you like doing physics and/or chemistry experiments (and be very careful when dong that )

However, it is physically impossible for you to conduct even a fraction of important experiments that would lay a real foundation of "self-generated knowledge" if that is what you prefer. Given the vast amount of knowledge we already have, it's impossible to re-tread every single pathway in the network of ideas and experimental facts that constitute modern physics.

Are they doing something wrong when they educate physical laws that are proven with experiment and math, when the result of absorbing that knowledge is pretty much leading to denial of several alternatives usually discussed here on ATS.

It's up to you to choose your path in getting to know our Universe. I, as a pragmatic person, prefer rational thinking and firm foundation in observable facts. I choose what works. If a certain "alternative theory" looks attractive on the surface of it, but looking closer leads, inevitably, to a conclusion that the rotational period of the Moon must be different from what we know it to be, with great precision - I classify such "theory" as trash.

This is a fair point but did you consider that there might be intelligent beings out there that have knowledge far beyond what we know at this moment? You mentioned physics, worm holes (Einstein-rosen bridges fro what i understand) are perfectly possible in physics.

And did you consider quantum physics? Teleportation as an example? I would not be so quick to rule out the possibility of alien encounters based off of what we know at this present moment in time. We may consider ourselves to be intelligent but i for one will not rule out the fact that we maybe primitive compared to other species out there. Also, you are basing you assumption that everything intelligent is carbon based. =]

My 1 pence

[edit on 29-11-2007 by rapturas]

Originally posted by rapturas
And did you consider quantum physics? Teleportation as an example? I would not be so quick to rule out the possibility of alien encounters based off of what we know at this present moment in time. We may consider ourselves to be intelligent but i for one will not rule out the fact that we maybe primitive compared to other species out there. Also, you are basing you assumption that everything intelligent is carbon based. =]

My 1 pence

Teleportation has not happened as of yet. Our scientists have managed to move a quantum state of light into another place, and that certainly isn't teleportation of matter.

Granted, if you have a perfect copy of any human body in some other physical place, and you teleport the quantum states of every single atom into that copy, you may actually end up with a living clone that has (until that very point, afterwards this won't be true) identical experiences of life

But, your body still doesn't teleport. Just the state of that particular collection of matter.

I do accept the fact that there may be more advanced life forms. In today's world, one would propably appear somewhat limited in thinking outside the box if thinking otherwise.

However, astronomers have fought one particular fight for a long, long time. That is funding. We know so much that it will be extraordinarily difficult to tell politicans (who control the money) to give more money to experiments that propably don't lead to any particular useful application that can be used in life.

Because of that fight, they have hit to a gold mine. Get enough evidence to prove alien life possible, get more money.

Aliens may or may not be able to curve space or move at the speed of light. They could however have figured out how to live forever or at least extend life by a great margin.

If you could live forever it would not really matter how long it takes you to move from one location to another.

astronomers have fought one particular fight for a long, long time. That is funding

is that to say that all intelligent life work in a society structure like our own? what if there is no issue of funding for an alien species? they may pull together to achieve a set goal of space exploration. Look at mankind, as soon as we could we reached for the stars and no doubt (if we survive) we will colonise other planets out there.

Also, we haven’t achieved teleportation of matter but is that to say that it is impossible because we haven’t managed it? I think its best to keep an open mind about these things rather than saying its impossible until such a time that we can prove its possible.

edit. to add a d to achieved lol

and to add
Is it out of the question that aliens may venture out to other stars or even galaxies and reproduce on the way in order to keep the exploration mission going for as long as possible? We could achieve space exploration if we could find a fuel that would get us light years from Earth.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by rapturas]

I forgot to add the followng comment:

the fact that physics is being taught (with varying degree of success) does not, in any way, prevent space aliens from visiting us. I have no idea how this notion came to be in the OP. It is exactly physics that I would use to examine a piece of UFO (should I ever be lucky to get hold of one) and come to a possible conclusion that it is indeed of extraterrestrial origin.

The thing is, that there is more than just physics.

There are dimensions or realms that defy our laws of physics.

UFOs are not driving through space like we imagine.

There is more to it all than our education allows us to know.

What I meant to say is that if one does believe and learn everything that is taught in basic levels of physics, it helps to create the mindset where things like ufo's as described become an impossibility. And truth pretty much is that there are about ten scientists who actually maybe understand something about quantum physics. The rest of us are left with only what they have managed to tell people in rational terms. Such terms can be very misleading.

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
UFOs are not driving through space like we imagine.

And how exactly are they "driving"?

Look, unless we have real evidence of how they move, or that they certainly are alien ships, it all will just remain an unproven speculation.

There is more to it all than our education allows us to know.

Please don't tell me that education is a limiting factor. It's an enabling factor. Those who don't like the effort associated with education may claim otherwise.

To be honest, I have learned more on my own than I ever did in school. Of course, education at the university level is pretty good, but I didn't learn much in grade school.

In relation to speed, you do realize that 150 years ago it was believed that if a person exceeded 30 mph he/she would die.. Of course, we now know that is not the case.

reply to post by rawsom


To be honest with you, I have a lawman’s understanding of quantum mechanics but PBS nova (among others) are quite good in explaining complex matters pertaining to subjects such as string theory so I can better grasp the subject. If top scientists believe the models hold up for there being other dimensions then who am I to argue?

Quite frankly, the notion of other dimensions makes a whole load of other unexplained phenomena (paranormal, alien life etc) justifiable (to me at least). And to be perfectly honest, I will keep an open mind towards all possibilities! Lets face it, mankind struggles to fully understand nature so what is there to say that we are missing something? Saying that our current understanding of physics etc is the be all and end all is a bit lame imho, sorry to say.

edit to add. has physics yet understood blackholes? does classical and quantum physics still breakdown when applied to blackholes? why can you not marry quantum mechanics with classical physics? Same universe isnt it?

[edit on 29-11-2007 by rapturas]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In relation to speed, you do realize that 150 years ago it was believed that if a person exceeded 30 mph he/she would die..

Of course, we now know that is not the case.

That "theory" of a person dying at 30mph fits quite well with many "alternative" theories here on ATS. Without proof, based on blind faith, and having NOTHING to do with physics or common sense.

It is something that was believed by science for quite some time.

Originally posted by rawsom
What do you think about educating yourself by yourself, thus creating self-generated knowledge?

That could be quite dangerous. It could lead to your brain independently processing information, which could lead you to The Truth.

We have biology that tells us about the impossibility for any biological entity to withstand radical G-forces when speeding up any airplane or spaceship. With, say, 200G acceleration every single bone in our body would crush, muscles would resemble tomato sauce and loss of consciousness would be immediate.

Thus, no high acceleration of alien ships.

Yes, but if you involve physics and have an open mind, it all changes...

We all know two magnets of the same polarity repel each other.
What if a technology was discovered that propelled ALL molecules of a substance independently and simultaneously, and of exactly equal force?
I mean ALL molecules, as in your spaceship, your blood, your coffee etc.
The result is no G-force. You can't go "through the windshield" when you stop WITH the craft. Your brain CAN'T turn to mush when the particles at the front of your brain come to a sudden stop EXACTLY the same time as the ones at the back do, etc.
It's like being in traffic. If all the cars stop at the same time, they won't hit each other. If they don't...

Originally posted by Paul the seeker
There are dimensions or realms that defy our laws of physics.

There is more to it all than our education allows us to know.

I totally agree with these statements. These are also why it's always so hard to present "proof" of so many things.


[edit on 29/11/07 by NuclearPaul]

Well, what goes for einstein's math.. I don't remember exactly how many different experiments have been made when trying to prove his general theory of relativity wrong, but that number was nearly two hundred. A year ago or so I read an article from new scientist that they are currently trying to prove his theory wrong in the last possible way they (the scientists) can think of.

If we really have a theory that holds true in nearly two hundred different aspects, all designed to prove him wrong, who are we to argue against that?

Quantum physics, though, isn't a theory which works very well with extremely large collecion of bodies of matter.

Both of these theories are, of course, wrong, because another explains large scale effects and the other explains macroscale effects. It does mean that we are missing something, I admit that much :-)

Somebody once said that there may be a certain structure in our brains, which prevents us from never, ever understanding true theory of everything. It is only a matter of incompatible structure of reasons and causes.

I know very little about travelling by curving space, but it propably is possible with miniature black holes, as long as the diameter of that hole doesn't exceed length of spaceship, as you have to get something which pulls you to the other side when that miniature hole dissapears.

Originally posted by rawsom
Quantum physics, though, isn't a theory which works very well with extremely large collecion of bodies of matter.

No, you're right, quantum physics is a physics of the subatomic realm. While Newtonians laws seem to apply in relation to large bodies, not so much when you get into the subatomic realm of things, which is a better view of what "reality" is.

As far as I know:

- Our laws of physics applies throughout our galaxy

- These laws do not prevent/disprove/negate space travel

- Life finds a way to thrive; even in the darkest bottom of oceans without sunlight


As man's knowledge grows, what seems an impossibility one day becomes matter-of-fact the next.

Scientific knowledge doesn't cast a shadow on the ET phenomenom, it allows us to better understand the How.

Originally posted by Xeven

If you could live forever it would not really matter how long it takes you to move from one location to another.

Not necessarily.

If exploration requires a type of curiosity and even a type of aggression then an alien creature might be as prone as we are to the problems of extended confinement in space travel.

It could be that the only types of aliens that could travel in space without wanting to kill each other after a few months are those with a hive mind.

It may turn out that we need to genetically engineer a specific type of enhanced human that is uniquely suited for space travel, including living in confinement for extended periods, as well as having a built in resistance to things like cold and radiation.

Ordinary humans might have to stay on planet or be put into suspended animation in order to travel beyond our solar system or even to travel to Mars.

So it's multi-factorial, and the limiting factors may end up not being technological but sociological. (at least in the near term).

I'm beginning to feel that in order to move to a space faring phase that we'll need to change ourselves, and not our environment.