'Flattened landscape'

Hello,

This is such a long shot - but hey, there is no "miracle" too great... ; )

I am sure most people here have heard about the famous "time slip" of Annie Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain on August 10, 1901, at Versailles.

You may remember that, at a certain point, one of them - or both - had the impression that the surrounding landscape (the Versailles park) appeared somehow "flattened", as if it were a two-dimensional, cardboard backdrop.

While researching this "time slip", I stumbled upon a website - I don't remember its name anymore, but it shouldn't be difficult to find - where there were two messages regarding this incident: one was by a lady who said she was a relative of Miss Moberly - and the other one was by a lady who said that she had lived at Versailles as a child and that she, too, remembered the landscape becoming oddly "flat" at times.

I was very intrigued and wanted to find out more about this phenomenon. Alas, the "comment" function wasn't working anymore, or I would have left a message there.

So... do any of you, perchance, happen to know anyone who had lived at Versailles - or, perhaps even more relevantly, do any of you have credible evidence or testimonies about such a phenomenon occurring anywhere in the world? (I am referring, of course, to the "flattened" landscape effect.)

Thank you.









[edit on 28-11-2007 by Vanitas]

So... do any of you, perchance, happen to know anyone who had lived at Versailles - or, perhaps even more relevantly, do any of you have credible evidence or testimonies about such a phenomenon occurring anywhere in the world? (I am referring, of course, to the "flattened" landscape effect.)

Because I cannot edit my original post anymore, I am reduced to "quoting" myself...

I just wanted to add emphasis to this part of my question:
ANYWHERE in the world .

Anyone...?








[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas
You know, this seems to ring a bell. I have come across old newspaper accounts that talk of folks somehow stepping into the future...or past, for that matter. I'm going to flag your thread and see where it goes...maybe poke around and report back.

Thanks for advancing an interesting topic.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck



Thanks, JohnnyCanuck!
I hope that helps trigger people's memories (just not false ones, I hope ; )).

interesting story..

Im sure I could google it but it'd be so much easier if all
I had to do was click a link for the original story. :-D

well... im off to google..

I just googled it.

I remember reading this when I was a kid, years ago...forgot all about it.

Thing all we got is the womens testimony and two versions that don't match everywhere..one possibly saw Marie Antoinete the other didn't.

According to the accounts they had communication with some geezers in old costumes. The women were English and I wonder what their command of French was (they were quite senior educators apparently) and how it related to the dialect communicated??

It is an interesting story but I can't see how it can be varified after such a passage of time.

Fascinating though, if it were true...

Honestly, I have never heard of this. When I read your summary though, it reminded me of some user reports of people who had smoked salvia divinorum (legal plant).

"...Traffic of not only modern vehicles as we know it zipping past at 30 or so mph but also an equal number of 1800’s type horse & buggies plodded by in this bi-dimensional time warp.

And I am not alone.

Standing directly next to me - I was literally 'at their feet' - were two women, a man and a little girl whispering pensively amongst themselves and occasionally looking down at me with barely discernable interest. The women seemed drawn and severe looking, one in particular seemed to give me the most resentful look. The man... the man in contrast had a green, cartoonish-face and towered over the other 3 by at least a foot. All wore period clothing, the women in hoop skirts and holding parasols, the man in Edwardian top hat and black tailored jacket. Only the vacant little girl – expressionless in a long flowered dress - seemed fixated at the half-interred man prostrated before her.

They stood next to Ace Wheelworks with its huge plate-glass window and were studying a rusted bicycle before them, the type you see in those old movies where the front wheel was massive and the back no bigger than a kids tricycle training-wheel. But this bike was slightly different. In place of plastic peddles it had furred goat hooves."


The rest can be read here, it is a long read, but if you enjoy reading about peoples loss of touch with reality... it is a doooosy.

www.erowid.org...

There is a lot of literature on Annie Moberly & Eleanor Jourdain's "time slip". They even wrote a book themselves (with a very interesting introduction by Dunne, a very serious "time investigator").
I would recommend their book - titled simply "An Adventure" (1911) - to anyone who is genuinely interested in their story.

But I didn't post a link to their story, because I was sure that it was familiar to everyone who would visit this thread.

Besides - and this is more important - I only mentioned their "time slip" to illustrate the impression of "flattened" landscape, which is the REAL question of my original post. (And you won't find their account of this phenomenon in all the "digested" accounts on the web.)

Anyway, here is a link to a search (which is much more comprehensive than a single website):


Moberly & Jourdain's "time slip"


(The website where I found the reply that triggered my interest in this phenomenon of "flattened" landscape - written by a lady who had lived in Versailles, is to be found on the "Museum of Hoaxes" - ?! - message board.)




P.S. And here is the said comment that "started" this thread:

"Flattened" landscape

I didn't want to post the comment itself, because it contains the name of the person who wrote it, and I don't think that should be done (not without her permission, anyway).


And here is the original account by A. Ch. Moberly about the phenomenon:


"We walked briskly forward, talking as before, but from the moment we left the lane an extraordinary depression had come over me, which, in spite of every effort to shake off, steadily deepened. There seemed to be absolutely no reason for it; I was not at all tired, and was becoming more interested in my surroundings. I was anxious that my companion should not discover the sudden gloom upon my spirits, which became quite overpowering on reaching the point where the path ended, being crossed by another, right and left…Everything suddenly looked unnatural, therefore unpleasant; even the trees behind the building seemed to have become flat and lifeless, like a wood worked in tapestry. There were no effects of light and shade, and no wind stirred the trees. It was all intensely still."

You can find this quote on Wikipedia, too, under "Time slip".)





[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Honestly, I have never heard of this. When I read your summary though, it reminded me of some user reports of people who had smoked salvia divinorum (legal plant).

That is very interesting.
My guess would be that Salvia divinorum (AND certain other substances) actually discloses what IS there - i.e. it does not cause "hallucinations" proper.

And while I am at it... you may find that a few individuals suggested that the two ladies in question - well-traveled, level-headed, respected deans in Oxford, no less - might have experienced the "effects" of... a single glass of wine that they may (or may not) have drunk at lunch time. You know: seeing that it was hot, and they weren't so young anymore...

Such 'hypotheses' are valuable insofar they prove that, indeed, the Universe may be finite - but human stupidity is not...








[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]

Oh, and by the way: there is a very good film version about the Versailles "time slip" (from 1980 or thereabouts, I think): "Miss Morrison's Ghosts", starring Wendy Hiller.
Highly recommended.





[edit on 10-12-2007 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Vanitas



You could be correct on the Salvia idea. If you take the time to read through a lot of those user experiences, there are some really startling commonalities. Universal themes that repeat, such as a zipper in the fabric of reality unzipping before their eyes. Strange that so many people report that same event. A lot even make special note that they had never read or heard of anyone else seeing that before they experienced it.

That type of thing fascinates me.

I tend to look at it this way, though. We are a very aware society with unprecedented amounts of information at our fingertips. We pride ourselves that our science is unveiling the secrets of the universe. But ...there is still a bunch of stuff that completely eludes us. UFO's and ghosts and parapsychology and cryptozoology, timeslips and visions...half of the stuff discussed on ATS. And by the looks of things, that's all been going on for a long time, so it's not new.

I figure there is likely one solid answer that ties it all up nicely...I call it a Unified Weirdness Theory...and someday, some bright spark is going to say that quantum physics or some such arcane field, has shown that all this stuff results from the intersection of multiple dimensions or something equally unfathomable. At least to us, right now. I just hope I live to see the day.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck



I most certainly agree that there is likely a single answer that would explain everything. And looking for it is gotta be one of the worthiest pursuits a person can ever indulge in. ; )

It doesn't even matter - anymore - that there seem to be very many individuals, mostly (but not exclusively) in the so-called scientific community, who refuse to even SEE the "weird" phenomena that have been all around us since times immemorial - or rather, they refuse to acknowledge the perception of such phenomena.

It doesn't matter anymore, I say, because the answer is not in their hands exclusively. It never has been. It's just that now people seem more and more aware that you don't have to have a PhD to experience profound insights and perhaps even make valid observations about the nature of Time and everything related to it.






[edit on 11-12-2007 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Karlhungis



Oh, I am very familiar with Erowid, believe you me...
If it were up to me, I'd spend my vacations "there".

And, as I was saying, there are other "mind-altering" substances (perfectly legal ones, even OTC - and not physically addictive at that, not that I am advocating any) that can drastically change one's perception of "reality" - for good.

I say for good because, typically, the "insights" that you get from them do NOT seem "crazy" AT ALL the day after, as seems to be the case with alcohol-induced delusions and such.

As I was saying, I think many so-called "hallucinations" really are perceptions of what really is there. Which is why some of the experiences do not differ from many "mystic" experiences or, indeed, from the creative processes described by Mozart and others creators.




[edit on 11-12-2007 by Vanitas]

Yes, There is a theory that states that we are actually a 2 dimensional universe, but percieve it as 3 dimensions due to our living within it... (if you think about it, an atom is one dimensional - a dot- until you can see the 3d matrix)

This would mean that a change in dimensional perception may be the key to tapping into a neighboring dimension. (perhaps also a 2d stacked dimension)

hope that helps.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Yes, There is a theory that states that we are actually a 2 dimensional universe, but percieve it as 3 dimensions due to our living within it... (if you think about it, an atom is one dimensional - a dot- until you can see the 3d matrix)

This would mean that a change in dimensional perception may be the key to tapping into a neighboring dimension. (perhaps also a 2d stacked dimension)

hope that helps.

Oh good - there goes YET another night for me...

Very interesting. Thanks.





[edit on 11-12-2007 by Vanitas]

Re: ' .... the famous "time slip" of Annie Moberly and Eleanor Jourdain on August 10, 1901, at Versailles.'

Somewhere .. (can't remember -- maybe Colin Wilson) .. I read about an English family who experienced something very similar to Moberly and Jourdain, also at Versailles, in the 50's, possibly, or even more recently. Family consisted of father, mother and (I think) their small son. From memory, they reported their experience shortly after it occurred. At the time, they were unaware of that their experience echoed that of Moberly and Jourdain. If I recall correctly, the mother was particularly distressed by the experience.

And is anyone familiar with the story, allegedly true and dating back to the 1950's or thereabouts, involving two English couples who stayed the night at an old-fashioned hostelry in rural France, only to discover later that the place no longer existed .. although it had, some centuries before ? It's claimed they drove down a lane which wasn't on their map, and became lost. Relieved to discover a farmhouse as night closed, they were delighted to be able to gain lodgings there. Next morning, after a substantial farm breakfast, they set off on their way again and in daylight soon managed to find the main-road that had eluded them the day before.

Can't remember exactly how the story went, but from memory, they were so impressed by the farm-house that upon their return to England, they recommended it to friends. The friends however were unable to find the place, despite having been provided clear instructions by the original two couples.

At a later stage, the original two couples again travelled to France and decided to spend the night at the charming little farm-house which had so impressed them on their previous trip. Try as they might however, they were unable to find it. Upon enquiry, they were advised by locals that although the farm-house had existed and catered to travellers many decades before, it hadn't been in operation in living memory.

The two couples were adamant that they'd stayed there. They recalled oddities they'd observed, such as soap which had been attached to the wall via a rope (to prevent theft, soap having once been a costly, luxury item) and the ridiculously small price they'd been asked for food and board .. just a few francs. Upon reflection, the two couples realised that their farmer hosts had been dressed in quaint, old-fashioned attire, but at the time, the couples had believed their hosts' clothing and the general old-fahioned accoutrements had been in order to appeal to the tourist trade.

The locals swore the farmhouse and its occupants had not existed for over a century, although they implied the two English couples were not the first people to claim they'd seen a place which no longer existed. The story suggests the English couples had experienced a time-slip.

I've read the story is true, but also have a niggling suspicion others have debunked it.

As far as flattened landscapes are concerned, it does tease the memory, but at the moment the only similar account I've read recently was posted on the Fortean site some time back and concerned flattened people .. who were described as tall, black and menacing ... and seeming almost like stick men in profile. From memory, someone posted an experience where they encountered the stick-men creatures as they walked down a road in daylight. The poster asked if anyone had any information on the creatures and as I recall, one or two people said they'd seen them -- fleetingly -- and had suffered extreme fear and afterwards depression.

Just bumping this shamelessly...
But not without a reason: in the past few days I've heard no less than four people mentioning experiences that were somewhat (not very much, but enough) similar to the one described by the two misses.

Which raised my hopes that there could be people with such experiences on ATS, too.


In case you're unfamiliar with the original story, you can read about it here.

The Versailles story inspired me in my teen-years. Real Twilight-Zone there.

It would seem that the 2-D Cardboard-World-Like Appearance is so that the mind can process what the 3-D World looks like compared to 4-D World - the world in which time-slips occur. Since the 3-D Person sees two dimensions as "Flatland" it might be the only way for the mind to process this stuff.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yes!
That's precisely what I want to hear - I mean, more about it...
Or at least as much as possible about the processes that take place.

Why certain places/times?
What is it that triggers such an effect?

I found it extremely tantalising that another person (mentioned above) apparently experienced the same while overlooking the gardens of Versailles, as she put it. (I suspect it must have been from the premises of the USA consulate.)

And yes, to me, the Versailles story is the mother of all such stories.
I highly recommend watching the movie "Miss Morrison's Ghosts" (1981), which is based on it.