British Teacher Faces 40 Lashes for Naming Class Teddy Bear 'Muhammad'

Originally posted by Odium
Freeborn, it is heavily dependent on the child surely?


End of the day, age has so little important to when someone is ready for sex it's a shame people use it.

So you think there shouldn't be a minimun age for sex? What are you saying exactly?

Edited to add another line so I won't get warned again.


[edit on 5-12-2007 by Chemicalbrother]

Reply to Sparky 63

Not a healthy decision considering Muhammad’s propensity for violence and assassination of anyone who he perceived as insulting him.

The Truth about Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)

Muslims all over the world are deeply hurt by the recent caricatures and teddy bear images of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) , Every now and then, some Western, media outlets provoke Muslims by insulting the Prophet, (peace be upon him). The baiting often succeeds in eliciting Muslims’ outrage and sporadic violence.

The real issue is not the freedom of expression. Free speech is not and was never meant to be absolute. There are laws in the West that ban certain kinds of speech, including those that incite anti-Semitism, racism and violence. Moreover, some countries have laws against blasphemy and defamation. To Muslims, banning blasphemy against Allah and the Prophet Muhammad has a higher priority.

The West often underestimates the Muslims’ reverence for their beloved Prophet and is, therefore, startled by the fierce Islamic reaction to an insult against him. Few in the West know that for Muslims loving their Prophet more than themselves is a matter of faith, not choice.

Objective Western intellectuals have acknowledged the superior character of Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him). In his “The 100, a Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, Michael H. Hart ranked Prophet Muhammad No. 1 because “He was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.”

Alphonse de Lamartine, renowned 19th Century French writer, had this to say about the Prophet Muhammad: “As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than him?”

Unfortunately, some Muslims forget that loving their Prophet means following him. Burning embassies, as they did in Damascus and Beirut, to avenge the insult in Sudan to the Prophet Muhammad is a complete disservice to him. Our violent reaction only plays into the hands of those who wish to reinforce the negative stereotypes about Muslims.

"Advise me! "The Prophet said, "Do not become angry and furious." The man asked (the same) again and again, and the Prophet said in each case, "Do not become angry and furious." (Sahih Bukhari)

Muslims need reminding that Prophet Muhammad, (peace be upon him), forgave the people of Taif who had rejected his message of monotheism and pelted him with stones, bloodying him? Islamic tradition has it that when Archangel Gabriel sought his permission to punish the perpetrators by combining two mounatians and village of taif in middle, the Prophet, (peace be upon him), instead prayed that some day the inhabitants of Taif would leave their idols and worship Allah alone. Within a few years they did.

He never reacted negatively. He always smiled in the face of those who insulted him. The Qur’an says: “and when they ignorant speak foul them, they say, “peace” . (Al-Furqan 25: 63)

Prophet Muhammad’s servant once noted his forgiving disposition said, “I served the Prophet, (peace be upon him), for ten years, and he never said ‘uf’ (a word indicating impatience) to me and never blamed me by saying, ‘Why did you do so or why didn’t you do so?” (Bukhaari and Muslim)

Prophet Muhammad’s archenemies hated his message and hurled malicious insults at him, to which he responded with forbearance. Years later when he returned as victor to Makkah, his city of birth which he was forced to leave, he asked its awed citizens, “What do you think I’m going to do to you.” They said, “You are a noble brother, son of a noble brother; we expect only good from you.” The Prophet, (peace be upon him) , responded with a general amnesty.

Let Muslims not forget that the Prophet, (peace be upon him), encouraged freedom of expression. In the Battle of Badr, he changed the battlefield against his own opinion due to the passionate advice of some soldiers.

Part of the West’s success today is the freedom—of expression, of thought, of religion—that draws Muslims to it from their oppressed societies. For that, Muslims should be thankful to the West. After all, freedom is an Islamic value that the West has embraced while Muslim societies have forsaken.

Defending the Prophet Muhammad requires allowing freedom and practicing compassion and forgiveness, like what he did, In his lifetime he, (peace be upon him) , bore insults with magnanimity and devoted his time to spreading the message of Allah. In fact, he never avenged anyone for a personal offence. Can we really respect him by violent retaliation?
Muslims need to change their thinking and follow the examples of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Muslims should turn this extremely painful incident into something positive, by teaching the world what the Prophet, (peace be upon him), means to us and what his life was like.

As for the West, there really is a need to re-examine the notion of free speech. Without safeguards, the exercise of this freedom can be lethal, as we have seen.

One may ask, is it morally defensible to provoke violence, cause death, and create a civilisation conflict for one cartoonist’s, teddy bear naming freedom of expression?

The West already has laws to protect religious freedom, which Muslims and other peoples of faith admire. What it now needs to do is protect this freedom from being trampled by unbridled free speech. No one should have to insult Prophet Muhammad, Jesus, or Moses to speak freely.

We can turn these negative, malicious cartoons and teddy naming into something positive by learning about the Prophet, (peace be upon him), by following him, and educating others about his teachings.

Allaah, subhanahu wa ta’ala, described the Prophet, (peace be upon him): “And verily, you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted standard of character.” [The Quran, 68:4]

In another ayah: “Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah there is a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allaah and the Last Day and remembers Allaah much.” [[The Quran, 33:21]

By a divine decision, the status of Muhammad, (peace be upon him), was raised forever:“And (has Allaah not) raised high your fame?” [The Quran, 94:4]

Muslims were commanded to keep their voices low in the presence of Muhammad(peace be upon him), out of respect: “O you who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him as you speak aloud to one another; lest your deeds be rendered fruitless while you perceive not. Verily, those who lower their voices in the presence of Allah’s Messenger, they are the ones whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them there is forgiveness and great reward.” [The Quran, 49: 2-3]

While other prophets were sent to their own people, Muhammad (peace be upon him), , was appointed as the messenger to all mankind. And such he was asked to declare: “Say (O Muhammad): ‘O mankind, verily I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah—to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth.” [The Quran, 7:158]

On the Day of Judgment he will be the only messenger to intercede with Allah to seek forgiveness for the wrongdoers.

As blasphemous as the drawings and teddy bear naming are, we believe that behind all events there is Allah’s pre-decree and wisdom that mortal beings fully understand only in hindsight. In the end, this deeply hurtful incident would be seen as benefiting the image of the Prophet, (peace be upon him).

A case in point is the verse: “Verily, We have given you (O Muhammad) a manifest victory.” [The Quran, 48:1] When this verse was revealed, even some of the most exemplary Muslims could not understand how being prevented from performing pilgrimage by the enemies could be a manifest victory. Prophet Muhammad, (peace be upon him), had just signed a treaty with non-Muslims of Makkah that imposed unfair restrictions on Muslims.

The Prophet, (peace be upon him), swore by Allah that no matter how restrictive this treaty seemed, it was a clear victory for Muslims. Within a few years, the victory became abundantly clear when Muslims marched into Makkah, not just as pilgrims but as victors.

Our love for the Prophet Muhammad, (peace be upon him), cannot be expressed except by following him. If we did that, we will see how Allah can change this painful incident into a great opportunity for the Islamic cause.

Originally posted by Chemicalbrother
So you think there shouldn't be a minimun age for sex? What are you saying exactly?

I always thought people found it easy on the internet to read, clearly not.

What I am saying, is moral legislation doesn't work when you place a specific age limit on things. There are 20 year olds with less sexual understanding than many 15 year olds, there are 12 year olds who go and buy and consume alcohol. The way we do things now doesn't work.

It'd make much more sense to scrap age legislation and allow for a social worker/psychiatrist, to speak to any child that has been having sex at a vulnerable stage and test them to see if they understand what they are doing. No 5 year old would ever understand it, so very young children are still safe. But it helps the Police in the areas of 13 to 16 year olds that they no longer bother even looking into these days.

reply to post by kangjia57


Normally when you take a huge quote from a website you should state the source. Your previous 2 posts are not your own work or thoughts unless you suddenly became an English scholar overnight.

Please state your sources of information otherwise its plagiarism, Thanks.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Grenade

Lets talk about Christianity and their Prophets wives, you did say you prefer Christianity more than Islam!

Really, i said that? I think i stated i have a problem with all religion.

The only difference between Christianity and Islam in my opinion is that Christianity adapts and modernises as time goes on. Islam on the other hand is bound to ancient rules and belief's that can never change.

Originally posted by kangjia57

Muslims all over the world are deeply hurt by the recent caricatures and teddy bear images of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) , Every now and then, some Western, media outlets provoke Muslims by insulting the Prophet, (peace be upon him). The baiting often succeeds in eliciting Muslims’ outrage and sporadic violence.

Muslims are responsible for their own actions. They cannot and shoud not be allowed to make the childish claim, "We were provoked" or"They made me do it". I don't even allow my children to get away with blaming their behavior on the actions of others.

Your own history supports the fact that Muhammad was a violent character. I won't go into them here, there are hundreds if not thousands of websites by Muslims and non Muslims alike that describe the raids, murders, and assassinations that were carried out either by him or by his orders.

The disrepect shown to this humble teacher, by thousands of your Muslim brothers who called for her death, did more to bring reproach on your prophet and your God than anything done by Mrs Gibbons.

What should the punishment be for unjustly demanding the death of an innocent woman? Will any punishment be handed out to the thousands who marched and demanded her head?

In some religions it is considered a great sin for one to hate their fellow man and desire their death. Surely all of this could have been avoided if a caring Imam simply visited that teacher and suggested she change the name of the bear.

Given her humble attitude in dealing with all that has happened to her I am sure she would not have hesitated to change the name to something that would not offend anyone.

Reply to Grenade

Normally when you take a huge quote from a website you should state the source. Your previous 2 posts are not your own work or thoughts unless you suddenly became an English scholar overnight.

Ok next time I will state the source, but I hope you got the point.

have you all learned your lessons? don't name ur teddy Muhammed!!!!!

Originally posted by kangjia57
Defending the Prophet Muhammad requires allowing freedom and practicing compassion and forgiveness, like what he did, In his lifetime he, (peace be upon him) , bore insults with magnanimity and devoted his time to spreading the message of Allah. In fact, he never avenged anyone for a personal offence.

You stated in your quote above that Muhammad never avenged anyone for a personnal offense against him. But I find it intersting that a Muslim scholar - Ali Dashti's book "23 Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad", [5], page 100:

"Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated."

This 120 year old man was murdered upon Muhammad's command.
According to your own history he was no physical threat to Muhammad. nor did he compel or urge other to fight or commit any violent acts against Muhammad or the Muslims

He was just an outspoken critic of Muhammad. Abu Afak urged the people who lived in Medina to doubt and leave Muhammad.

Muhammad heard of this and viewed the 120 year old man as a threat to his credibility, not to his life. Nowhere does it say that Abu Afak urged his fellow Arabs to attack or harm Muhammad. Yet for speaking his mind, for the benefit of his friends, this man was murdered by Muhammad.

Of course in like manner Ali Dashti was tortured to death by the islamic regime in Iran 1982.

en.wikipedia.org...

I believe history, yes even accepted Muslim history refutes the claim you made that:

Originally posted by kangjia57 In fact, he never avenged anyone for a personal offence.

I look forward to your comments on this.





[edit on 5-12-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by Chemicalbrother
So you think there shouldn't be a minimun age for sex? What are you saying exactly?

I always thought people found it easy on the internet to read, clearly not.


It'd make much more sense to scrap age legislation and allow for a social worker/psychiatrist, to speak to any child that has been having sex at a vulnerable stage and test them to see if they understand what they are doing

LOL, where's that needle and cotton, my sides have split. You've missed your vocation in life, you should be on the stage.


So basically you would scrap the legal age for sex completely, thus allowing all children to make up their own minds on whether they should have sexual relations. This I presume would also allow them to have sex with adults too.


[edit on 5-12-2007 by Chemicalbrother]

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Chemicalbrother]

Originally posted by kangjia57

Ok next time I will state the source, but I hope you got the point.

Just out of curiosity, what was the source for the 2 long posts that you made?
It was very well written and I would like to examine it in greater detail.

reply to post by Chemicalbrother



Yeah Odium puts across his opinions very well. Its just a shame that someone who clearly has a firm grasp of the English language uses his skills to spout utter BS.

Rather than tampons and sex education for our young girls we should assess if they are ready for breeding. What are we talking about here, farm animals or human children? What possible positive effects would there be in having a mature 10 year old mother in western society? Odium stop making a fool of yourself please. 16 is probably too young in todays day and age, i certainly wouldnt feel proud of myself if i had sex with a 16 year old girl.

In your opinion we should test a girls maturity after they have had sex to see if they are vulnerable? Sounds like a good way to protect our children from sexual predators. Suffice to say you have no children of your own? With that opinion its probably a good thing as a dad who thinks young teenagers are ready for sex isnt capable of looking after his child.

You also stated that you plan on becoming a teacher? Someone who feels that a 13 year old girl could be ready for a sexual relationship should not be working in a school. If one of my daughters teachers voiced that opinion rest assured i would be filing a complaint and withdrawing my daughter from his class. Its sick!


[edit on 5-12-2007 by Grenade]

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Grenade]

reply to post by kangjia57


I dont know if I believe in God, or anyone elses God - brought up as CofE, I believe passionately in what goes around comes around, treat everyone as you want to be treated and laugh every day out loud.

I find it impossible to understand, how anyone could incite injury or ill feeling towards another person in the name of their religion?

Religion started as a series of books - or tablets of stone - found in a cave somewhere. Interpreted, some of us seem to believe that these words now rule our lives forever, and have taken them and twisted them and turned them into what they want to hear and read.

Why can't they have been works of fiction by the best writer of the time?

Anyone who kills themselves, and takes other people with them whilst doing so, cannot possibly think that they will end up happily ever after?

talking to friends from many different religions, no-one seems to be able to find the exact words in their 'bible' that says to kill others.

Lets face it - you are either going to love being alive or feel nothing being dead. And if there really is another place we go to - DOWN is the only way you are going to go!

As for teddy bears - how pathetic that these children are now without a great teacher - and can someone please explain how come we can call a person Mohammed but we cant name a small toy used to pacify children? surely everyone named Mohammed currently in prison across the world are taking the name in vain as they are not using it properly!

reply to post by Chemicalbrother


Chemicalbrother, you need some form of help.

Children are already going out having sex when they want. They don't care about the legal age, nor do the Police. The Police can not enforce the law how it is in this country, because when they decide to have sex they just say no to the Police. They can't drug the girl and put her on a lie-detector.

So they do not bother to enforce the law.

My way, will actually allow the Police to enforce the law. If these people can not pass said test and meeting, then they are deemed unfit to be having sexual relations. Thus you find out a head of time if they have in fact been having sex or not and then you can work towards punishing someone who is causing harm.

But in all honesty, two 15 year olds having sex is the least of the United Kingdom's problems at the minute. Those sort of laws, either the Police don't bother to enforce or they waste their time on it. It also wastes the courts time and the publics money.

I would much rather a 15 year old has sex, that understands contraception then a 20 year old who doesn't. Fact is, children now are smarter then they were in the 1950's. But we as a society won't move on and it's causing all sorts of problems.

You look at any town in the U.K:
Underage Sex is rampent (highest rate of teenage mothers in Europe I do believe.)
Underage drinking.
Drug abuse.

Clearly, the laws and Police aren't working. Thus they have to be changed. I don't see you coming up with any ideas to deal with them. So let's see your idea?

Reply to Grenade

Yeah Odium puts across his opinions very well. Its just a shame that someone who

His skills has taught him how to put opinions very well and if you cant debate with him than don’t label his opinions as ‘utter BS’

Originally posted by Odium
reply to post by Chemicalbrother

 

Chemicalbrother, you need some form of help.

I need help, really?

Anyway....Now I think your no minimum age sex law could work....How silly of me to forget that the children would have the benefit of a social worker to fall back on, someone who would listen to and put right all their problems. Fantastic idea and I don't think for one second that a sick paedophile would try and take advantage of your new law. Do you?


Do you have children of your own?

reply to post by kangjia57


I can label them whatever i want, in this wonderful country we live in thank God i still have the ability to say what i like without the risk of punishment.

IN MY OPINION THE CHANGE IN LAW ODIUM HAS SUGGESTED IS UTTER BS. ANY SANE PARENT WOULD AGREE. EXCEPT POSSIBLY A MUSLIM PARENT OR AN UNEDUCATED TRIBSEMAN / MONKEY.

I also refer to Odium's quote of "Chemicalbrother, you need some form of help. "

So he can dish it out but is unable to take it?

Also in response to your two page copy and paste regarding the great Prophet Muhammad it is clearly written by a Muslim to enforce Islamic belief. Can you find any unbiased articles or provide your own thoughts on the great man and his history?


[edit on 5-12-2007 by Grenade]

reply to post by Chemicalbrother


Chemicalbrother, step back and think before you type.

You are saying, you'd rather a girl of 16 who has no understands of sex has sex, because she's "of age" then a girl of 15 having sex who understands contraception, STD/STIs, etcetera.

You place so much on a number, it shows how little you understand about reality.

So if my idea is so bad, what is your idea?

Please, tell us all how you are going to enforce age legislation in this country? When they can't with drugs, alcohol, etcetera.

Oh by the way, under age girls already have sex with older men all the time. The Police do not care in this country because the law can not be enforced unless the girl will take the stand.

Grenade, the law doesn't work how it is. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many under age mothers.

So come on, how are we going to enforce age legislation in reguards to age of consent? Please tell us the answer.