September 11, 2001

I'm taking a survey.

Who thinks that the 9/11 attacks were a joint Mossad/CIA operation to make Americans hate Muslims and to steal Iraqi oil?

Not me, I think they were Osama Bin Ladens idea of "revenge."

It is more complicated than that. But you are close. Keep digging! (Muslims had absolutely no knowledge, nor took any part in what happened on 9/11.. and that includes people like Bin Laden etc.)

Hussein was also oblivious to this. For some reason the government is linking Saddam to Bin Laden and 9/11. Well ok the reason is to have an excuse to do what they did. But otherwise, they are coming up dry on evidence.

The question is, who BENEFITS? Based on what USA did after 9/11, who do you think would WANT US to do this? If not US itself... as our government can be wolves in sheep's clothing as well. But could another nation take part? And if so, look at motives.



[Edited on 3-2-2004 by lilblam]

Put me down for a big fat No, Nada, I dont think so!

But its a convient battle cry for the haters..

Radical Islamic Wahibists did it. They have publically claimed it stated why.





[Edited on 3-2-2004 by dreamrebel]

NO!!! Not Mossad/CIA for the reasons you mentioned above.

Originally posted by dreamrebel
Put me down for a big fat No, Nada, I dont think so!

But its a convient battle cry for the haters..

Radical Islamic Wahibists did it. They have publically claimed it stated why.





[Edited on 3-2-2004 by dreamrebel]

I'll drink to that!

I'm gonna say no. I just don't think that OBL expected as...harsh a response as we gave the Taliban.

There is something that must be taken into consideration when asking this question.

If the WTC was their target the obvious reason for it would be the fact that no two other buildings in America would have had more Israelies inside.

So how many Israelies died, and how many were injured in the WTC on 911?

ONE!

Originally posted by dreamrebel
Put me down for a big fat No, Nada, I dont think so!

But its a convient battle cry for the haters..

Radical Islamic Wahibists did it. They have publically claimed it stated why.





[Edited on 3-2-2004 by dreamrebel]

If I publically claim that I am your mother, would that make it so? Do not let wishful thinking blind you. Does it make you feel better thinking it is some incivilized, religiously-obsessed bunch of middle eastern people than to consider for a second that it could be someone much closer to home? Someone who has power over you? Do you let your own "preconceptions" and "desires" sway your opinion? Or not?

Originally posted by Eljay
I'm taking a survey.

Who thinks that the 9/11 attacks were a joint Mossad/CIA operation to make Americans hate Muslims and to steal Iraqi oil?

Im not really sure the Mossad was involved in the attack but the CIA definately was involved one way or another.

If I publically claim that I am your mother, would that make it so? Do not let wishful thinking blind you. Does it make you feel better thinking it is some incivilized, religiously-obsessed bunch of middle eastern people than to consider for a second that it could be someone much closer to home? Someone who has power over you? Do you let your own "preconceptions" and "desires" sway your opinion? Or not?

If I publically claim that I am your father, would that make it so? Do not let wishful thinking blind you. Does it make you feel better thinking it is your own government, which you do not trust and have bias against, than to consider for a second that it could be someone with a vendetta that doesn't fit into your world view, and that your government actually cares about your well-being? Someone who'd you hope could never touch you? Do you let your own "preconceptions" and "desires" sway your opinion? Or not?

Originally posted by Esoterica

If I publically claim that I am your mother, would that make it so? Do not let wishful thinking blind you. Does it make you feel better thinking it is some incivilized, religiously-obsessed bunch of middle eastern people than to consider for a second that it could be someone much closer to home? Someone who has power over you? Do you let your own "preconceptions" and "desires" sway your opinion? Or not?

If I publically claim that I am your father, would that make it so? Do not let wishful thinking blind you. Does it make you feel better thinking it is your own government, which you do not trust and have bias against, than to consider for a second that it could be someone with a vendetta that doesn't fit into your world view, and that your government actually cares about your well-being? Someone who'd you hope could never touch you? Do you let your own "preconceptions" and "desires" sway your opinion? Or not?

Very cute. Now why would it make me feel better knowing that the group in charge of the country I live in would be the same group that commits mass murder in that country, or has a hand in the plot? Sorry, that would NOT make me feel better, by ANY means. Why would you suppose that?

Also, are you telling me I have no reason to NOT trust the government? Seems to be rather naive of me based on what they've done...

I'm not biased against anyone. If I catch anyone on my "team" trying to sabotage it in the past, I WILL be suspicious in the future.

Also, you're asserting that the power-hungry, money-worshipping, black-budget accumulating, bunch of people in charge of a superpower suddenly have the best interests of the PEOPLE at heart? And what on this pretty blue planet brings you to that conclusion?

How could I hope that the government could never touch me? Since when did I develop immunity to them? I don't have government repellant spray, nor am I superman, or a ghost. As long as I'm flesh and blood, anyone who wants to, can potentially "touch" me. Such hope is once again naive, and would blind me from reality, which is "sadly" not what I "hope" it to be.

[Edited on 3-2-2004 by lilblam]

Bin Laden has always denied that he was involved in 911.

The video that supposedly showed him confessing was not of Bin Laden. The face is quite different, and he was wearing an AMERICAN camo jacket.

It has been proven long ago that it is not what the media in America presented as. Which is why it is not shown anywhere anymore.

Very cute.

I try

*Snip

Well, I can't really help you here if you think the shadow government is slowly attempting to take over the world by putting mind control drugs in Cheerios. That's your opinion of things, and arguing with someone never changed their mind.

However, I believe the government to be too incompetent to manage to pull something off like that, and have nobody find it out. Somebody in the administration has a conscience.

No, I do not believe that the administrations only goal is to grab as much money as they can and hightail it. Our CIC is a Fundamentalist, for Chrissake. Whether what he's actually doing is right or wrong, he believes it is for the good of the people. I can't believe he'd allow 3000 people to be murdered like that, when there would be much easier ways of getting public support behind kicking terrorist ass.

There are likely no WMDs in Iraq. Now, if the evil shadow government were a scompetent as you say, couldn't they have jsut planted some there, or couldn't they have simply used their media mind-control ray to brainwash reporters into saying they were there?

They can't. First, because they don't exist. Second, because our current government is not competent enough to have pulled a hoodwink of that magnitude off on us. If 9/11 and Iraq are some huge conspiracy, they're doing one #-poor job of it.

Here's my opinion on 9/11.

From evidence that has been gathered, there were obvious signs of massive underground explosions right before the collapse of the towers.

The Brooklyn Bridge shook, and not to mention the ground shook, seconds before the collapse, and readings of this were recorded on seismographs (sp) and the readings of the violent shaking before the collapse was higher than when the planes hit, and when the buildings themselves fell on the ground combined.

Video evidence of this has also been recorded from a camera on a tripod stable on the ground, pointed at the towers as they collapsed, the camera shakes due to the ground shaking.

Another thing is from survivor stories, one woman lived and worked on the 79th floor and one of the planes hit above her floor and she made her way down all the way to the bottom floors and she said she couldn't explain why there was such massive damage to the bottom floors when the plane hit almost 80 floors up...

Also another interesting point I've found is Bush's story of his reaction. He was at an elementary school and was going to listen to some kids read a story, and he said (audio of this is available) he saw the first plane hit the tower before he entered the classroom and though to himself "what a terrible pilot, that must have been a horrible accident". What's funny about this is that video of the first plane hitting captured by amateur film did not appear on television until the next day, and after talking to the principal of the school, there was no television anywhere near where Bush was before he entered the classroom.

He also seemed to have a hard time telling his story and often studdered as if he was making it up as he went along or as if he was trying to remember an unrehearsed story.

Also after he WAS in the classroom the chief of staff came in and whispered to him that the 2nd tower has been hit, and he said "america is under attack" after that he calmly stepped back and Bush continued to sit in the classroom uneffected for another 20 minutes.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

I don't know about everyone else but this didn't shock me

Originally posted by Esoterica

Well, I can't really help you here if you think the shadow government is slowly attempting to take over the world by putting mind control drugs in Cheerios. That's your opinion of things, and arguing with someone never changed their mind.

One assumption after another...

However, I believe the government to be too incompetent to manage to pull something off like that, and have nobody find it out. Somebody in the administration has a conscience.

More assumptions. My mother writes "From Santa" on my presents, and then tries to pass it off as Santa's work. I don't know it though. I also believe my mother is too incompetent to manage to pull something off like that, and have me never find it out. Somebody in my family HAS a conscience!
Assumptions have no business in objectivity. But some people don't consider objectivity their business! Do you?

No, I do not believe that the administrations only goal is to grab as much money as they can and hightail it.

If you remove the "and hightail it" part, would that make your statement true? If not, why not?

Our CIC is a Fundamentalist, for Chrissake. Whether what he's actually doing is right or wrong, he believes it is for the good of the people.

Hitler believed it was for the good of the people to exterminate the Jews. He really did, and he thought he was doing God's work, GOOD work. Subjectivity and "beliefs" have no business with objectivity. But some people don't consider objectivity their business. Do you?

I can't believe he'd allow 3000 people to be murdered like that, when there would be much easier ways of getting public support behind kicking terrorist ass.

And I don't believe Hitler would allow his own "cromies" to create the Reichstag fire. Also I don't believe that he would resort to killing 6 million Jews to further his cause. There has GOT TO BE an easier way to getting what he wants. Hmmm... assumptions... beliefs... how much DO they help? I wonder...

There are likely no WMDs in Iraq. Now, if the evil shadow government were a scompetent as you say, couldn't they have jsut planted some there, or couldn't they have simply used their media mind-control ray to brainwash reporters into saying they were there?

But if they are incompetent, why are they an evil shadow government? Also, isn't the word "evil" subjective and based on personal judgement of any sutiation that is derived from your preconceptions and beliefs? How does that fit into OBJECTIVITY? Doesn't seem to be able to! Does a square peg fit into a round hole?
Then you make assumptions that BECAUSE they didn't use their evil mind control ray and didn't plant WMD's in Iraq, all your suspicions of them being "bad" are cleared! Phew glad we solved that problem.

I also believe that because it was the WORLD TRADE CENTER that blew up instead of the Eifel Tower, whoever did the blowing up has NO problem with the French at all! In fact, because they didn't ALSO blow up the Eifel Tower, I believe the terrorists are also incompetent and did not have the resources to do it. Yup, my assumptions kick ass.

They can't. First, because they don't exist. Second, because our current government is not competent enough to have pulled a hoodwink of that magnitude off on us. If 9/11 and Iraq are some huge conspiracy, they're doing one #-poor job of it.

They can't for the following reasons:

First, because I don't think they exist. I just assume that, but truly have no clue. But because they didn't use a death ray on washington DC and stuff, I believe that proves their lack of existance.

Second, I think our own government is very poor, weak, and has no resources to pull off what happened. I believe that islamic cave people are way smarter, richer, and more powerful than the government of the most powerful superpower in the entire world. Why do I believe that? I have no clue! I just do! It's faith I guess!

Ok I think I'm done here. Btw if Iraq/911 are both conspiracies, THEY SUCK!
-me

(now, do you see ANYTHING wrong with those assumptions? Or does all that seem like normal reasoning and perfectly good deductions?)

Think!

First, I invoke Godwin's Law. (Look it up on google if you have no clue what I'm talking about).

Second, you claim I am making assumptions.

Show me one (1) iota of evidence that there is a shadow government. And by evidence, I don't mean "Bush said one thing, and another happened, so therefore the Shadow Government is in control."

Show me one source that is actually checkable (which means conspiracytheorist4life.com's "Mysterious Informant" does not count) that would lead me to believe there is an SG at work. Once you do that, I will consider that it may exist. Otherwise, stop telling me not to make assumptions when your entire world view is based on them.

However, I believe the government to be too incompetent to manage to pull something off like that, and have nobody find it out.

THATS why I dont believe most of this shapeshifting alien reptile nwo bull#. Its pretty plain to anyone looking that NOONE is driving this trainwreck. This world is just a blundering headless monster and if by ANY chance that someone is calling the shots they are doing a piss poor job of it

Oh, by the way, I think Osama done it

Greed, power, service to self. We are indeed responsible for this train wreck. If anyone is heading anything, we let them. If not, we let the world be what it is today. But hey, isn't it fun to see where it's all going?

If anyone is heading anything, we let them.

But we cant help it, they know all, see all and can read our minds and have ruled the world since the start .................remember

Us puny humans are powerless before there might

Its been fun but I got to go to bed now......Later