Did Lemuria and Atlantis War? Were Aliens Involved?

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
My highly questionable conclusions? Actually, mine are based on what scholars worldwide believe, not something from a geocities website.

If the scientific community at large did not embrace and espouse some largely WHACKED and INCOMPLETE conclusions - some of which are based on PREJUDICE - then the entire ATS forum, which addresses cutting-edge theories and discoveries, would not be necessary to have in the first place.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
If you'd like to actually read about the Mahabharata or Ramayana, what real scholars, who actually know what they are talking about, say...I'd start here...

The Mahabharata

The Rayamana

Good sites. However, they don't support what you are espousing; they just provide us with some information about the subject at hand.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And please, I challenge you again to point to one place where it mentions either of these texts talks about a war between Rama and "Atlantis."

The word for Atlantis in the ancient texts of India, is ATALA.

Well, it so happens that one of the explanations for the destruction of Atlantis is found in the Sanskrit Epic literature. It seems that during the war between the Gods and Asuras several battles occurred involving vimanas which failed to accomplish the goal to end a ten year-long war. Finally an extremely large vimana is built, and armed with a weapon, very similar in its stated effects to our present-day nuclear weapons. The vimana flew toward Atlantis (Atala, in the account) and launched it directly at the capital city, Tripura. As a result cities and inhabitant were destroyed and sent, burning, to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean. So says the Mahabharata. You can argue with it, but you can't change it. I simply present all sides to the question.

Describing the final battle in what I believe to be the same war, the Greek writer Hesiod says that the ocean "seethed and boiled" and that mountains "heaved and shook" as the Titans were suffering their ignominious defeat. They were finally imprisoned (they were considered to be immortal, and thus could not die) in "Tartaros" beneath this western ocean. The gates of this prison were guarded by none other than Atlas--a definitive Atlantean connection! For full details click on the Mythology page, or click on the scroll labeled "Aircraft from India" and then the "War of the Gods and Asuras". The similarities between these stories are striking, and unlikely to be mere coincidence. Even the Bible makes reference (although somewhat obscure) to this event.

Summary Page For The Quest For Atlantis

Another source...

The Hindu traditions speak of Atala, a sunken Paradise lying in the Far East. Atala is one of the seven paradisial Hells (lokas) of the Hindus. These were the archetypes of the Seven Isles of the Blest of the Greeks and of the Seven Atlantic Islands of Medieval Traditions. Atala is often identified with Sutala ("the Foundation Land") which is the name the Hindus gave to their pristine Paradise. Its name means, in Sanskrit, "nowhere" or, yet, "sunken land". This etym is the same as the Greek one of Utopia or Erewhon of Gnostic traditions. In other words, traditions of a sunken Paradise such as the Elysium (or Isles of the Blest) of the Greeks, the Amenti or Punt of the Egyptians, the Eden of the Jews and the Dilmun of the Babylonians all spring from that of the Atala or Sutala of the ancient Hindus.

Corroborating Evidence On The Reality Of Atlantis

[edit on 24-11-2007 by Paul_Richard]

How do you know the Hindu word for Atlantis is Atala? And isn't it odd they sound so similar, given that Atlantis a greek name and, according to Plato himself, was not the name used by the inhabitant of the mythical land

Anyway, we know that the Atlantean army was deafeated by 2 cavemen and a goat (aka the Athenian army c9000BC) - so just how big were these Indian armies?

Im sorry Armap but don't say you know were the Khufu pyramid and the other 2 came from, because you'd be sounding incredibly arrogant, we have no idea were they came from. They are unlike any other pyramid EVER built, they predate all other pyramids and yet after perfecting the technique FIRST TIME, they never did so since, rather than using 52 degree (i think, maybe 53) they used a 43 degree for the slope of the sides, not the sacred measurement as it compromised the structural integrity for the later designs...i think they may have used 53 degrees a couple centuries later.

NO royal sarcophagus, no bodies, no inscriptions, unlike any other pyramid ever!

And ignoring the fact that a tablet was found near the smaller pyramid attached (which khufu actually did build) to the 'great pyramid' which states that the 3 pyramids stood there(and the sphinx) before his ancestors time.

Im not trying to insult you, but the main reason we don't know the truth is due to the arrogance of our researchers and archeologist's discount anything that doesn't 'fit in' to their point of view, how are we to learn anything if we only get shown the corner of the picture?

Sorry, made a mistake above, no ROYAL bodies, a few were found but seemed to have been intrusive burials from a later period, and the hieroglyphics found in the chambers above the kings chamber have been questionable since there discovery, but due to lack of a 'better solution' we are left with this theory.

thanks

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Im sorry Armap but don't say you know were the Khufu pyramid and the other 2 came from, because you'd be sounding incredibly arrogant, we have no idea were they came from.

I didn't said I know, I said we, meaning that we, as human beings, know it, it was not a personal reference to me and another person(s). We may not know exactly when they were built or who ordered their building, but I don't see any reason for not considering those pyramids a continuation of an old tradition.

They are unlike any other pyramid EVER built, they predate all other pyramids

If they are older, when were they built?

and yet after perfecting the technique FIRST TIME, they never did so since,

Based on the supposition that these are the oldest pyramids, yes, but if they weren't then that idea does not apply.

And ignoring the fact that a tablet was found near the smaller pyramid attached (which khufu actually did build) to the 'great pyramid' which states that the 3 pyramids stood there(and the sphinx) before his ancestors time.

I ignored that fact because I don't know of its existence, can you show me one source that has evidence of that finding?

Im not trying to insult you, but the main reason we don't know the truth is due to the arrogance of our researchers and archeologist's discount anything that doesn't 'fit in' to their point of view, how are we to learn anything if we only get shown the corner of the picture?

And you think that accepting theories without any supporting basis is the way to find the truth? Show me the evidences that support that theory and I may accept it instead (or along) any other, but I do not accept anything just because it goes against the mainstream, I only accept things on their own merits and not on the demerits of other theories and/or people who accept them. It is easy to accuse the mainstream followers of arrogance and forget the arrogance of those that disregard decades of real study.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
If the scientific community at large did not embrace and espouse some largely WHACKED and INCOMPLETE conclusions - some of which are based on PREJUDICE - then the entire ATS forum, which addresses cutting-edge theories and discoveries, would not be necessary to have in the first place.

Simply because in the past theories have been incorrect, changed, or prejudice does not mean every crack-pot theory is correct. Just because you prove someone wrong, does not mean that you are proven right.

However, you have still neither proven me wrong, nor yourself correct.

[qoute]
Good sites. However, they don't support what you are espousing; they just provide us with some information about the subject at hand.


They support every thing I have said. You need to demonstrate how they are wrong, or how they do not support the truth, or how they support your ignorance.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And please, I challenge you again to point to one place where it mentions either of these texts talks about a war between Rama and "Atlantis."

The word for Atlantis in the ancient texts of India, is ATALA.

I'll ask you again...point to one place in the Ramayana or the Mahābhārata where it mentions a war between Rama or Atlantis. Let me repeat so you understand the challenge before you; You need to demonstrate where that is mentioned in either the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, not what someone on some other website says. The websites you quoted DO NOT cite one place in either of those texts where a war between Rama or Atlantis (Atala) is mentioned.

So says the Mahabharata. You can argue with it, but you can't change it. I simply present all sides to the question.

Yes...but where does it say this? The Mahabharata is not about the war between the Gods and the Asura. It is about a war for the throne of Hastinapura.

Describing the final battle in what I believe to be the same war, the Greek writer Hesiod says that the ocean "seethed and boiled" and that mountains "heaved and shook" as the Titans were suffering their ignominious defeat. They were finally imprisoned (they were considered to be immortal, and thus could not die) in "Tartaros" beneath this western ocean. The gates of this prison were guarded by none other than Atlas--a definitive Atlantean connection!

The scholarship here is very questionable.

You claim that the war between the Gods and the Asura is the same as the Titanomachy, and suggests this is what lead to the sinking of Atlantis. First, the Titans and the Asura are not analogous of one another. There is no difference between the Titans and the Olympians, they are both gods, just different groupings of the same family. The Titans are not evil, just opposed to the Olympians. On the other hand, the Asura are demons, evil beings who are inherently greedy, devious, angry and arrogant, the exact opposite of the Devas.

Second, the Atlantis of Greek folklore (and let's be certain, even the ancient Greeks did not believe Atlantis existed) ruled long after the Titanomachy. It was after the Titanmachy that the Olympians divided the world among themselves, and Posiedon was granted Atlantis. It was so named because the first king of Atlantis was Posiedon's son, Atlas. It did not suffer, it did not fall because of the war between the Olympians and the Titans. It feel after it tried to invade Greece, and was repelled by an alliance of Athenians and Egyptians.

The Titan Atlas and the Demi-God Atlas were not one in the same. Nor was the Titan Atlas the guardian of Tartaros; that was the Hecatonchires. The Titan Atlas held up the Celestial Sphere so it would not crash into Earth.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
They support every thing I have said. You need to demonstrate how they are wrong, or how they do not support the truth, or how they support your ignorance.

I provided sites that back up what I am saying with quotes. You need to do the same with your own, if you can that is.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
And please, I challenge you again to point to one place where it mentions either of these texts talks about a war between Rama and "Atlantis."

Atala is Atlantis and I provided references. You need to do so. Not sites of general information, but sites with quotes that specifically espouse what you are attempting to further.

The word for Atlantis in the ancient texts of India, is ATALA.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
I'll ask you again...point to one place in the Ramayana or the Mahābhārata where it mentions a war between Rama or Atlantis.

I am not a scholar of ancient Sanskrit and neither are you. But there are various people who are and who have translated The Mahabharata and other ancient texts of India and who have shown us that there is a correlation between Atlantis being Atala and that Atala had at least one war with the ancient empire of India, known as Rama.

The Hindu traditions speak of Atala, a sunken Paradise lying in the Far East. Atala is one of the seven paradisial Hells (lokas) of the Hindus. These were the archetypes of the Seven Isles of the Blest of the Greeks and of the Seven Atlantic Islands of Medieval Traditions. Atala is often identified with Sutala ("the Foundation Land") which is the name the Hindus gave to their pristine Paradise. Its name means, in Sanskrit, "nowhere" or, yet, "sunken land". This etym is the same as the Greek one of Utopia or Erewhon of Gnostic traditions. In other words, traditions of a sunken Paradise such as the Elysium (or Isles of the Blest) of the Greeks, the Amenti or Punt of the Egyptians, the Eden of the Jews and the Dilmun of the Babylonians all spring from that of the Atala or Sutala of the ancient Hindus.

The Hindus have many traditions on a sunken continent that was the paradisial region where mankind and civilization first originated. One such was Tripura, "the Triple City". When we recall the fact that Atlantis was, like Tripura, a triple city with metallic walls and golden palaces, we cannot but conclude that the two traditions, if indeed based on actual fact, refer to the one and same thing.

Ancient Civilizations

We are all waiting for you to provide us with quotes from reputable sites to back up your unsupported theories

[
We are all waiting for you to provide us with quotes from reputable sites to back up your unsupported theories

You do realize you are making a very idiotic statement, right?

You are claiming the scholarship of archeaologists and historians worldwide, who's views and mine are one-in-the-same, are "unsupported." You do realize you are the one challenging science and history as it's currently understood, correct?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
We are all waiting for you to provide us with quotes from reputable sites to back up your unsupported theories

I see that you are still peddling this nonsense despite the fact that 3 days before you asked the above question I did post you evidence from reputable sites that you were totally wrong

so I will reproduce that post here and maybe this time instead of continuing to propogate ignorance and make yourself look a laughing stock you will pay attention and learn something

you claimed that the Maharabata mentions Atlantis using the name Atala
It doesn't
you know it doesn't

atala
a-tala mfn. having no beach or shore, precipitous Śāk
• m. a precipice
• the third hell

students.washington.edu...
tala means "place"

"a" added to "place" in sanskrit means no place, in the same way that an a added to any english word turns a positive into a negative

e.g. Aceramic

anyone claiming that Atala = Atlantis can't read sanskrit or just doesn't care about the truth very much

thats you Paul, you were given this information here 3 days before you posted the same claims again
www.abovetopsecret.com...
2/3 down the page and yet you are still pretending that it didn't happen


this means that you are a fraud

Originally posted by ElectroMagnetic Multivers
Could you elaborate on the 'four corners' idea..I'm intrigued, never heard that expression before, sounds like something I'd like to know

The four corners I am speaking of is the Navajo Nation. The area is where Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado all meet. The Navajo Nation has their own police force as well as their own governing laws. It is like a country within a country.

My opinion is the Navajo Indians know a whole lot more about this region than they are willing to share with outsiders. Yes they have their ancestral secrets and of course this is where they reside near the four corners. This truely is a special and sacret place the Navajo call home. Rik Riley

SaviorComplex,

Do you realize how ignorant and prejudiced you come across as?

NEWSFLASH: No links - no evidence - no argument.

I guess that means you are not up to the task at hand.

I figured as much.

Just a lot of hot air without any supportive documentation.

reply to post by kerkinana walsky

I provided various reference sites to support my argument that Atala is the word for Atlantis in the ancient texts of India.

You ignoring those references doesn't prove your point, only your ignorance and prejudice.

Originally posted by kerkinana walsky
2/3 down the page and yet you are still pretending that it didn't happen

this means that you are a fraud

No, it just means that I decided not to address your bias. Ignoring ignorance while offering illumination with reference quotes is an excellent approach. You should try it sometime.

Hey, since you and SaviorComplex are of the same ilk, maybe you should start a new thread together.

You know, to further your "theories."



[edit on 25-11-2007 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
SaviorComplex,

Do you realize how ignorant and prejudiced you come across as?

NEWSFLASH: No links - no evidence - no argument.

I guess that means you are not up to the task at hand.

I figured as much.

Just a lot of hot air without any supportive documentation.

I did post links, scholarly links supported by academics and historians worldwide. You chose to ignore them.

What specifically don't you understand, or believe is not supported?

reply to post by SaviorComplex

Do you know how to post a specific quote from a reputable source to support your argument?

If not, ask a mod, they would be happy to assist you.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I provided various reference sites to support my argument that Atala is the word for Atlantis in the ancient texts of India.

Here is the full text of the Mahabharata. Where does it mention a war between Rama and "Atala"? Please tell us the exact book and section.

Okay, sorry if that sounded combative. Most of my information came from just one book, and that of course leaves open the possibility for bias and I understand that. I didn't mean to say it was infallible fact.....the book was called "Secrets of Lost Gods," I can't remember the author. It's probably all nonsense, I mean there are end-of-the-world theories every few years, the most recent is the 2012 thing.

The book is actually not in the library, I just got a letter saying I owe the library money for some unreturned books. I will search around for it and put the "facts" on here for anyone to dispute or back up.

But channeling aliens or spirit entities is not something anyone should believe. Beliefs are things that you don't know for sure to be true but which could be proven. There is no way to prove this. I know a number of tarot card readers and psychics, and they are scam artists. Pure and simple. Many of them give good advice, but its still a scam. Anyone who thinks that spirits talk to people should read a bit about cold-reading, anyone can do it and its not magical.

Anything that anyone says on here about atlantis or lemuria lemuria whatever is pure speculation. There are many ways to interpret old writings, especially when they aren't written in English. It just makes me mad when people try to back up their own speculations with ratatata. Spirit guides or alien revelations, its bull#. If you had the ability to see and speak with beings in other dimensions or on different frequencies then our own, you would not be writing on here. These abilities go hand in hand with enlightenment, they are possible but they require years of spiritual study and discipline.

Mediums.....there has never been one who was proven to be true. Not a single one. Every person who has ever tried to demonstrate psychic abilities like telekineses or clairevoyance has been proven to be fake.
If you can give an example of any single psychic event which is real, I'd love it.

Relying on peoples stupidity to validate your own. Bush talks to god.

Having an open mind does not mean believing everything that people tell you. I am open, just critical. Its called healthy skepticism.

[edit on 25-11-2007 by joshblass]

reply to post by SaviorComplex

That doesn't wash and you are not getting off that easy.

You have to provide us with quotes from reputable sites that state point blank that Atala is in fact not a reference to the lost civilization of Atlantis in ancient texts. Preferably with at least a cogent argument to back up the appraisal.

This is needed to counter all the reference quotes from reputable sites that I have provided that provide evidence to the contrary.

We know your opinion.

But we do not have any direct documentation from you, i.e., quotes, that support your unsubstantiated theories.

Care to provide us with some?

Originally posted by Paul_Richard...This is needed to counter all the reference quotes from reputable sites that I have provided that provide evidence to the contrary...

Where? So far the only links you have provided are to shoddy websites. Besides, he is not the one that has to prove anything, you're the one that is making the outrageous claim that Atlantis is referenced in the Mahabharata.

No matter how hard you try, there is NO reference to Atlantis in the Mahabharata.

reply to post by Farnswoth

The only thing that is shoddy here is the lack of documentation of those, like yourself, who, through prejudice and ignorance - which we at ATS strive to deny - refuse to accept the evidence presented that Atala and Atlantis are one and the same thing

Now that you have officially joined the ranks of the blind, we also challenge YOU to provide us with cogent quotes that counter the evidence I have presented.

If you can, that is.

I will not bother to post again in this thread until I see some, as there are other threads that require and deserve my attention.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
reply to post by SaviorComplex

 

That doesn't wash and you are not getting off that easy.

You have to provide us with quotes from reputable sites that state point blank that Atala is in fact not a reference to the lost civilization of Atlantis in ancient texts. Preferably with at least a cogent argument to back up the appraisal.

And while you at you can you find some quotes that say categorically that Narnia isn't another name for Lemuria, that there aren't giant pink bunnies running fast food outlets on the Moon, and that Essan isn't the High Commission of Bongobongland?

(Because if you can't then it must all be true)

Come on Paul - do you realise how ridiculous you sound?