CNN Wages War On The VA Who Is Screwing Our Wounded Veterans

reply to post by camain

elysiumfire, please review my first post. If my post was inflammatory, I apoligize. My beef isn't with treating the hurt and wounded. My beef is that by giving him/her a disability payment no strings attached for the rest of there life, you are enabling them to be a sloth on our society. I don't believe in welfare, S.S., or disability payments. Its a system designed to allow people to be lazy. I think they should all be scrapped and redone, but thats beside the point.

No strings attached, you have a good point, maybe he could trade one of his hands, some fingers, part of his skull, some of his brain and maybe his face for it. Oh... wait..

Thats the reason why he is recieving medical services. I hope he continues to. This being said, what about the vets that are getting disability for nail fungus? You are confusing the issues. The first is getting proper care for the individuals. That like everyone else I'm in agreement with. the second, is what to do the individuals after they are healed. Can they somehow be reintegrated into society? If not, what is classified as comfortable. A comfortable living expense. This is what him and other vets want for the rest of there lives. How much is this? Should we adjust for inflation? How much should each american pay to let him sit on his butt all day for the rest of his life. 1 dollar? 2 dollars a month? now multiply that by everyone thats in the system. You are creating a system that will eventually collapse.

Gotta go at this point, but would like to continue to discuss this.

Cheers,

Camain

reply to post by camain


I undertand your point but,

No matter how well you put your examples people get blinded by patriotism, but this is misguided, because a true patriot will be fighting against this senseless war that is creating a new wave of dependent to the system part of the population, on a system that is already saturated for lack of funds and a failing economy because we are fighting a trillion dollar war.

Yes the same way that our elderly are homeless and fighting for care and we are supporting an outrageous immigration problem and health care and on top of that our nation can not provide for the health care of its citizens and the poor now we will have to deal with the growing number of veterans coming from Iraq many to be supported by the system for life.

Guess what people right now our vets are becoming a growing problem as many are becoming homeless.

This is not a pretty picture, is not the American people the one failing them but our government the one that is doing this to them and then dumping the responsibility to be shared by the tax payer, how much can our nation afford this days.

I say stop the funding of the profiteers and create a special fund for our long term disable Iraqi war vets that no matter what will have to be taken care for life, we wanted or not.

reply to post by camain


Lumping everyone together isnt gonna solve it either. There's a big difference between his situation and and someone with nail fungus or his situation and some crackhead living off the state pumping out child after child, as well as some pregnant illegal immigrant stumbling across the border just in time for her kid to be born and taken care of for life. Some people earn the right to be taken care of and this is a case.

Its not about how much we can afford as a nation, its about fixing the broken system, get the illegals off it, send em home, get the crackheads rehab and get em to work, and give the lazy motivation to get jobs so people like this Marine and other servicepeople can be taken care of like they deserve. You cant equate what they do to the guy slappin whoppers together or some stuffed shirt sittin behind a desk. These people chose to join the military, a job where your job description asks you to kill or be killed. Where you have a possibility to become just like the poor Marine in the first clip and they joined anyway. Some join for college, some for direction in life and some to protect the land and people they hold dear.

Some people seem to be blinded by the current war, its not their choice which wars they go to. They signed on to serve and defend this country and everything in it. If its patriotism for wanting to take care of the people who chose to defend me and my family then yeah I'm a Patriot, dont confuse it with any kind of political affiliation, because its not the case. You can try to obfuscate the issue with minutiae like inflation, one dollar two dollar, definition of comfort, etc. etc.. Boiled down, it comes to this, they DONT belong on the street or to be forgotten. They are the true heroes, maybe we should switch their benefits with the windbags in congress, that would fix it right there, problem solved.

Well Darkweave, I think we should just agree to disagree. I think we both think he should continue to get as much medical services, as he needs in the near future, and that should count for something.


Everyone here: Have a Happy Holiday.

Cheers,

Camain

reply to post by camain


The recourse that you have at work is that you can sue to a great end to get the salary that you would have earned for the rest of your life...

It is much easier to sue a company or person than to sue the government.

I think it is ashame that people even question this, I am not saying we shouldn't have checks and balances but come on this guy has 70% of his skull missing underneath the skin they grafted from his hip or ass. and you want him to operate a fax machine with what the stubs where his hands used to be get real..

Another point of view to consider is the burden this young man would be by none of his own doing to an employer insurance costs high absence rate and so on and so forth...

I know there have been some problems and thanks to the media CNN FOX MSNBC these things get taken care of normally..

I truly hope that you don't treat me this way when I come back all shot to hell from defending your right to sit on your arm chair crusading ass and complain about someone getting financial aid for nearly dieing.. I am going back in the Army in February 2008 so I can defend what many won't YOUR Constitution..

I know this is inflammatory but sorry to say you really got my dander up on this post..



Respectfully
GEO
Father US Marine Vietnam
Brother US Marine Currently
Myself US army



[edit on 11/21/2007 by geocom]

Well, Congratulations on re-enlisting. I just want to point a couple things out.

First, your not fighting for the constitution, your fighting for the foreign policy of the U.S. The constitution was pretty much eliminated following the depression, and the declaration o emergency rule giving the president more powers then he constitutionally should have had back in 1923(i think)

Second, your not fighting for me. I am a protectionist by nature and thus don't believe in empiric expansionism and fascism that is deeply rooted within the U.S. military. If someone someday invades the U.S., I would join the fight, but as a partisan not a soldier.

The difference between the 2 is that a partisan fights for his rights, a soldier fights because of order.

BTW, I hope that in the next 5-10 years, you still have that conscious of yours telling you that you are fighting for the constitution, because when the government eventually abolishes the bill of rights and the constitution, I hope that WE (the people) have experienced individuals like yourself fighting for us not against us.

I truly hope that you stay out of Harms way, and hope that you have a very good Christmas, and a easy, peaceful, and happy new year.

Cheers,

Camain

Originally posted by geocom
reply to post by camain

 

I truly hope that you don't treat me this way when I come back all shot to hell from defending your right to sit on your arm chair crusading ass and complain about someone getting financial aid for nearly dieing.. I am going back in the Army in February 2008 so I can defend what many won't YOUR Constitution..

Every thing in your post is fine up to this point, I disagree, as a woman with family members that has die for this nation when wars really meant something, I will say that you are not fighting for any of my freedoms of my constitutional rights.

Wars are fought for nothing more now than geopolitical reasons, greed and profits.

I hope and pray that you will come back in one piece for your family sake and yours.

And I will pray also that you will be able to get medical help if you get wounded.

But remember it was not for my freedom that you are fighting for, my grandfather did that and die for me already before I was born during WWII.

[edit on 21-11-2007 by marg6043]

While I do not disagree entirely with your posts Marg or even with those of Camain , those that have served get it those that haven't don't

Part of fighting for the constitution is in fact following orders to fight when told to do so I might also mention that I don't have to re-enlist I am a small business owner who has been blessed with a great deal of success I am in fact the republican pig that many can not stand and as should be obvious I am not shy about it..

I guess I have to sum up how I feel in a short phrase

"as others have given I will give of myself"

take the phrase for what it is worth but it is something that I live by

as far as fighting against the government in 5-10 years (don't see this happening) by then I will be in my mid to late forties so you are on your own on that one camain

if you are referring to a partisan as a guerrilla fighter who sabotages an occupying army I hope you have lot of friends as partisan fighting always results in extremely high casualty rates of the guerrilla fighters..
and my guess is that everyone will still be here on this site posting about a fight that will never come to your keyboard..

Respectfully,
GEO

Originally posted by camain
um, I hate to be the one to say this, but why is it the american peoples responsibility to give him money for free, for the rest of his life, and him to sit on his but and do nothing all day?

I realize that war sucks, and I realize that being hurt sucks. He should definately recieve the medical care he needs for free, but why should the american people be responsible to feed him, and his family he has or wants to have.

I think a better alternative would be to find jobs for him within the government that can use him. He can still work, even if its just sitting at a desk.

before I end this though, I am not disagreeing about the medical care, I agree we need to treat him completely and throughly, but I believe in workfare, not welfare. Anybody can work, even if its simply filling out forms all day, or answering emails, changing diapers, cooking food, etc.

I truly hopes he gets what he needs medically, as well as any other disabled vets out there. Thank you for your service.

Cheers,

Camain

Because if they had to do that, how ready would they be to go to war? They would have to spend all of the money for other projects taking care of veterans. I would be ok with it. Heck Operation DeepWater cost us 24 billion, and did next to nothing.

A friend of mine put it very well. We should pass laws that in war times force all defense manufacturers, and contractors to operate completely not for profit, all services, and goods provided at cost, that would remove a huge incentive for it.

Redwraith, That is an impressive concept. Unfortunately, I don't see it happenening, as politicians would scream socialism, and decry capitalism dying.

I think it would be awesome though.

Cheers,

Camain

reply to post by Dave Rabbit
Just so everyone knows - I've been trying to publicize the story since 1987 - I learned while helping two vets (one Vietnam) that VA officials steal a great deal of the money people like these guys as supposed ot be getting. They rate the vets' disability high, juggle the records to pay him low and make it look legal, and syphon off the difference. It's a multi billion dollar scam the congress has been protecting for decades. Both of the vets I assisted, Sgt W.R. Benton and Hadley Washinton, were men experimented on by the MKULTRA program. Benton, who thought he had undergone electro-convulsive thereapy, was a cryptographer at the Pentagon. That might explain what happened to him. When I contacted (that's literally dozens of times) U.S. Senators and Congressmen with incontrovertible proof of what was happening, I was ignored. I also contacted all the major media, even went so far as Soldier of Fortune magazen. Nothing happened (except I got shot at, was attacked by motor vehicles and muggers, and escaped several poisoning attempts). Gentlemen, this country isn't what you think it is. I wrote a book about the matter, but a U.S. District Court ruled when I sued for records that disclosure to me would "irreparably damage the tax collection system of the U.S." (in order to cover, the IRS was ordered to attack me, and internal revenue made an excuse for concealing the records I sought). It's all on my site www.judoknighterrant.com

Supposedly, you can judge a government's compassion for it's citizens by how they deal with their old people and their disabled veterans. We (the U.S.) aren't doing a very good job for either group. When I got back from Nam, left the military, even private companies discriminated against vets and wouldn't hire us. These companies need to be permanently placed on a list of shame. As far as those of us requiring service related medical care and/or disability pensions, there is no question that the government needs to take care of it's obligations to it's military veterans. I will proudly stand with my fellow ex-military and demand their rights!

I didn't know Springer was a vet; no wonder he's a stand up guy.

[edit on 11/25/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by camain
um, I hate to be the one to say this, but why is it the american peoples responsibility to give him money for free, for the rest of his life, and him to sit on his but and do nothing all day?

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it may be in his contract or part of some law.

If Americans were to hold a vote tomorrow I believe most would vote in favor of total care for soldiers in his position.

Yes. U.S. law in 1930 established the Veteran's Administration, now the Department of Veteran's Affairs, to give medical care and pensions among other things to eligible U.S. veterans.

[edit on 11/26/2007 by TheAvenger]

As the daughter of a Viet Nam veteran who died at age 59 of a very rare cancer linked to Agent Orange, this subject hits close to home. This seems to be a pattern with our government-- sending our men, and now women, off to war... then when they come back needing help, they deny the illness was caused by Agent Orange, and they deny the Gulf War Syndrome, or mental health issues.... It goes on and on.

It's sickening.