Why I came to ATS (a little beeta dees, a leetle beeta dat)

I came here to find answers, like I think a lotta people on here did. Some people come for the fun of viewing the mysterious, kinda like going to a Ripley's Believe it or not, some come to debate, some come to debunk, some come to make fun, some come just to be weeowd. I, personally, came for answers to questions I SHOULD be asking.

Let's start with 9/11. I don't need a bunch of people waving facts in my face anymore, saying this proves that or this disproves that. It's a gut feeling I have... and no doubt some 9/11 truth documentaries influenced it, but I would never have believed any of that bullcrap (what I used to call the truth movement) UNLESS I felt it to be true... unless I used MY OWN EYES to look, with no veils covering them. It insults me to my very core when debunkers come onto this forum and insult the intelligence of many many people who can use their own common sense that we're all endowed with at birth (although most common sense gets brainwashed and the baby thrown out with the bathwater). If nobody would have ever told me the footage I was watching was building 7 collapsing (and if I hadnt seen it happen live....Yeah so did I, hotshot who watches TV, good for you ), I would most definitely have said "Oh hey it's a building being demolished. Cool."

I don't care about the towers. Stop focusing on the towers... because the fact that no skyscraper has ever collapsed before makes it very hard for either side of this argument to make a strong enough point (although I beg to differ about explosives NOT being used in the towers, for argument's sake we'll forget about that aspect for this post). There just aren't enough statistics and logistics out there for it to accurately be analyzed, because nobody's seen it happen before or since 9/11.

Building 7 was BARELY damaged look at it again and again and again, from any angle. It's very easy to see that the building was not damaged in a way to fall the way it did. I'm no physics expert, but I mean do you really need to be a physics expert to know basic principles of gravity??? Are we non-collegiates too stupid to be able to figure the world out by ourselves? That's what a lot of debunkers/skeptics act like, and it's an incredibly degrading insult, and it honestly hurts a lotta people's feelings, and put doubt in themselves because "Oh well look at all these nice neat facts and figures. I couldn't do that good of a job explaining anything. He must know what he's tyalkig about. I must be wrong." The typical "truther" is a sheep to the movement, just as the typical average joe is just as easily a sheep, maybe even more-so because he sees a guy who says he's a scientist explaining away all the conspiracy theories, and he goes "Oh yeah see I knew it. I'm gunna continue being a blind patriot and wavig my little amflag. That guy just gave my conscience permission to go ahead and ignore what that other guy said."

I came here for truth... and you debunkers, man.... need to lay off the people who know. The people who know are 100 percent sure because this information, this realization, this epiphany, these events they've experienced.... it changed our lives and our perspectives of the world around us. Trust me, I question everything now. I have tried several times questioning my beliefs in 9/11 since my epiphany, and one guy almost succeeded in convincing me until I realized he was full of crap and trying to blame Arabs for everything in a very roundabout way... like every Arab wants to kill Americans just because the govt decided to support Israel. No doubt that happens, but most people would rather just everyone chill out and be at peace. It's only brainwashed Arab soldiers trained by CIA-backed "terror camps" that turn around and do these atrocious thing, either that or some unfortunately terribly brainwashed religious fanatic running at you with a bomb strapped to his chest just because somebody made him think God likes killing done in his name.... but hey Christians have been doing that for the better part of two millenia. This is what the CIA does. It infiltrates groups of people, and plants idealists and fundamentalists that are good at riling up a crowd, and these fundamentalists start violent revolutions that tear the groups apart.

Whether or not Arabs were involed in 9/11 or WTC '93 or OK City, or the US embassy bombing.... guess who started it. Guess who started it all, and now their perfect mess is spiralling out of control, and we're all sitting here debating pointless little facts and figures and who's right and who's wrong. Well just STOP!!!

We all know something is very very very wrong here, and we decide its better to argue and insult each other than all agree on some fundamental truths. Some fundamental truth is so simple to see, and I don't get why many many of you can't see this. It's that peace is obviously NOT being achieved by war. Freedom is being taken away by war, by government expansion, by the corporate takeover of our country and our lives, oil is obsolete yet we're still being FORCED to pay outrageous prices for it. Our food is filled with poison, our water is polluted and contaminated by the corporations who we must live off of, and we are slaves to a god damn little green piece of paper. One little piece of worthless tree shaving can cause so much death and destruction and hate and misery all over this beautiful world, and is issuing in a coming apocalypse. Money is evil, my friends. Those who believe in the Devil could say he's alive and well within the vaults of the world's banking system.

There is a conspiracy. I don't need to prove that. Just check your wallet or your pocket, and you'll see evidence of a several millenia-old conspiracy right there on your personage.

Please be smart and realize it's better to agree to disagree. Let's start doing that on this site. Let's start planning actions instead of arguing beurocratic bull# that delays everything.

The revolution is happening now, and you debunkers cannot stop it. People are waking up and realizing the power of their own brains... slowly but surely.

You debunkers cannot disprove anything to the people who KNOW. We don't need it all spelled out for us. We can read between the lines, as well as the lines themselves. So hey have fun delaying real progress with your degrees and your lengthy bull# campaigns and your patriotic duty to ignore your denial, instead of denying your ingnorance.

thank you.

Let's take this a little further into the rabbit hole, ladies and gentlemen. Let's talk also about the complete ignorance of denial that's going on here in relation to a rather touchy subject: UFOs.

UFOs again and again and again thousands and millions of times over have been sighted all over the world. An overwhelming amount of people on here have seen spectacular things in the sky they can't just explain away.... but yet, that doesn't satisfy the skeptics. Why? That vast amount of witness testimony, on this site ALONE, should be enough to quell all of the ignorance on this site, let alone witness testimopny from the rest of the world. These things cannot be explained away. After 60 years or so of disproving UFOs as a reality, somehow....hmmm they're still here. They are still real. They did not decide to figment themselves away just because hotshot johnny scientist comes along and cries "VENUS REFLECTING OFF SWAMP GAS!!!".

The government has denied the people the right to a fair investigation of this reality, and even the ones they authorized were smear campaigns and outright blind debunkery. Yet people still demand it be investigated. Hmm seems like this little nuisance to our little narrow minded regimented sleeping slave way of life isn't going to be explained away (or go away) so easily. They're here, folks.... and the government knows full well about them. Maybe they've even got some shiny little get-ups themselves (the answer is yes).

I've seen UFOs en masse this past 12 monts. Never seen one in my life, then all the sudden they're everywhere... my friends are seeing 'em, my mom is seeing 'em. My dog is barking at them. My TV is talking about them. My former military personnel are holding press conferences and doing interviews on national news left and right... and yet the debunkers say it's probably not that. I think a lot of them are jealous that they can't break out of their little box they live in. They can, but they don't want to. It's more comfortable just to stay in the box and attack anyone who tries to help them get out.

Plus.... not to mention all the hours of reading and studying I've done on the subject. Just that alone would have convinced me of the reality of their existence... but no, I also have first hand experience. I also have secondhand and thirdhand experience. I also have a great intuition that says this is very real and very important, and we gotta stop arguing, and realize the fundamental truth.

They are real! Jesus friggin christ, some of you people cannot see reality even if it kicks you in the nuts.... and well... it's to be expected. I was in those shoes.

Those shoes now stink to high heaven. So let's get rid of them so we can stop arguing about what causes their odor. Oh look, what do we have here? A foot! That's what's causing the odor! But the debunkers said my foot cannot exist because they couldnt see it through my shoe before.
That's just an analogy.


But there's something I'm really trying to emphasize, and that's fundamental truths. We need to stop bickering, and realize the fundamental truths behind all this really relevant stuff we talk about on here. I consider 90 percent of what is on this site to have some basis in reality. If it didn't, people wouldnt be talking about it. It wouldnt exist in our collective consciousness.

thank you again. More prolly to come. on this thread.

Well hey I can see that this thread is going to die soon, so whatever. Nobody's gunna do anything about anything bickering on this forum, anyway. Why do I waste my time? Prolly because I care... especially about ignorant people. I want them to start thinking smart. start thinking smart, dammit!

reply to post by indierockalien

So hey have fun delaying real progress with your degrees and your lengthy bull# campaigns and your patriotic duty to ignore your denial, instead of denying your ingnorance.

Wow, after that...who would want to respond?

Not everyone is going to agree with your OPINIONS. You are no more right then people who have differing OPINIONS. But to sit there and name call people just because they dont share your OPINION is well, just rude.

I don't need a bunch of people waving facts in my face anymore, saying this proves that or this disproves that

Isnt that exactly what you are doing to everyone reading this thread right now?

Well, I responded to your post even though I dont really agree with it all

I, at least, hope you feel better about getting that off your chest Thats what really matters


[edit on 17-11-2007 by greeneyedleo]

and a little bit of this...thread should be on BTS..

no sir... these arent opinions. Look out your friggin window once in a while. Really seriously, I am sure you're a great guy but you GOTTA BE BLIND TO THINK that this stuff isn't all happening.

I don't like these guys, these debunkers, these people who claim nothing is out of the ordinary, its all as it seems, and I would be nicer to them if they weren't so smug themselves. It's not at all as it seems. I'm sorry for sounding cliche here but...seriously.... no I'm not gunna say that.... I'll say this. Once you know, you know. That's no opinion. The paradigm shift hasn't hit you yet. Man, you're gunna freak out and have a meltdown or something if it all comes crashing down around you at once. I'm serious dude, do yourself a favor and open up your mind to anything. Look into all claims no matter how rediculous they sound, and unless you're dealing with old guys making trashcan lid spaceships, unless there's evidence to deny their claims... do not deny them. THAT is ignorance. To ignore something based on a biased viewpoint, or to indulge in stupidity. Which... needless to say, America is the home of.

I came here to solve problems, not debate over the existence of things I know exist, I've felt, I've seen, I've used common sense and a completely unbiased viewpoint to come to a conclusion. I can't do math or physics worth diddley, but I can sure see straight. I can sure understand basics of natural laws that we live by, that aliens live by, that tall buildings live by. I also know that rules are meant to be broken. Imagination is meant to run wild, and creation is meant to be limitless.

I like ur lionness avatar, by the way

reply to post by indierockalien

I would say that you are a debunker also sir. Or are you going to state that you believe every claim that is made on ATS? If you state "no" then you are debunking someone's claim, and if you state "yes" well then you are just nuts.

let me clarify.... I don't dislike skeptics and debunkers. I just don't get them. I really do think MOST people here, even the ones with far out claims, know how to discern fact from whackt really easily for themselves... and the reason so many people are "falling" for the 9/11 truth movement...(which I don't wanna associate with because it's not really about 9/11 OR America, but in general, truthers are mostly blind patriots themselves, trading one ideal for another)... is because it opens their eyes to government corruption, not the fact of government corruption ()even though it is a fact), but the plausability of a conspiracy to happen, especially when America is bought out by international corporations that dont give a BS about the ideals this country was founded on, or the lives and well being of its citizens... proof you want of that? Look at all the corporations moving their operations overseas! They're selling us to China, for God's sake, man! You wanna know who really runs the world? Corporations. They are now people.... gigantic people without compassion or emotion, more like remote controlled robots that have legally earned the rights of a human...except for some reason, they can't be charged with the same crimes.... oh and these gigantic robot "persons" that owns us also is now pretty much owned by other countries, since we're in debt to everyone. Isn't that a big enough conspiracy for you?
America was a good idea. Capitalism was a bad idea. The two ideals when mixed create lethal results. It's like taking a speedball.... this country as it was meant to be has overdosed and died. Time to find something else to love. Oh I know, how about peace for once. Why all this war and we cant have a say in whether we go to war or not? I thought it was We The People? Oh but I guess that's not a conspiracy that the constitution isn't even worth the paper it was printed on anymore.
There's so many conspiracies in pain sight to everyone, if they could just get past their mental barriers. You will not 'get it" until your subconscious lets go of its unhealthy allegiances.
Until you admit that you know nothing (not directed at you specifically), you will continue to know nothing.

I don't believe anything. I can't debunk someone's claims when I myself have made some pretty big "claims"! but not to say I "believe" them. I listen, and I ponder them, and I consider them probable because... well the universe is full of probability. I don't demand proof. If someone is inconsistent with their story, or they provide evidence in the form of a clip from the movie "ET", well yeah then they debunk themselves. I don't have to debunk anyone. The only things I hold true are the things I know... but in this reality, even truth can change.... so I must admit I know nothing. Knowing nothing, believeing nothing, you become open to everything.... and that's when truth gets a hold of your ego and gives it a real kick in the balls.

PS - some things do deserve analyzing, but being over-analytical can be dangerous. It can get you really lost in the symantics of it all, and you fail to notice the obvious. There's so many people who fail to even question 9/11, for example, because of the completely reasonable thought "Well, if it was an inside job, it would take thousands of people to pull off, and its impossible for that many people to keep quiet for so long".... that they don't really really look into it, and see that it could've been done by thousands of people who didnt quite "know" what was going on, and planned and managed by a select few in the know... but there's lots of people that probably knew... but let's see, if you have a family to feed and protect, bills to pay, and a reputation, and possibly you and your family's life on the line... you won't talk. I know I'd almost feel guilty for putting my family in danger like that.