FBI Raids "Liberty Dollar" Company Offices - Confiscates All "Ron Paul Dollars"

Originally posted by apc
Executive orders can not violate law.

They most certainly "can" violate law. Since 9/11 there has been no one to mind the fox in the hen house because the more powers the Executive Branch arrogates to itself the more the opposition salivates contemplating when they shall retake the Executive Branch and use all of those nifty powers by decree.

Reptilian/Secret Gov. power is at it again!

Originally posted by Pellevoisin

The raid on the Liberty Dollar does not seem to me like a raid on a "Local Currency" as much as it is an effort to make sure those Ron Paul Silver and Gold coins never see the light of day.

Why would the government care who a private mint puts on a "coin."

If you read the web page for this "enterprise" and you can make heads or tails of it, you're smarter than I am.

Others have explained why this is a scam and it all has to do with defrauding the public and violating federal law.

Try it yourself. There are mints out there that will put Ron Paul's image on a medal for you at a far more reasonable price than you might expect.

Just don't build a pyramid scheme around it and you might make lot of money selling them as novelties.

Great time signature of the previous post^^^^^^^^^^^ 9:11pm ?

This was was an intelligence operation, either to get mirrors of the Liberty Dollar customer data bases, or to cause a reaction or both.

The Ron Paul significants is an awesome plot device for theorists

The reason that the FEDS are upset is because the "sigil" magic that is built into the symbolism printed on all the Federal Reserve notes. The money or at least the symbols on the money must circulate to engage the magic spell.

That is the spell of unfulfilled desire that captures your free thoughts and energy, so they can be used to perpetuate the spell. It works somewhere between a malicious software program that clones your computer ..and a whirlpool.

The legal tender law states that the court systems have to support any transaction that was settled with Federal reserve notes.

That does not state that the court system will not consider "bananas" as a lawful payment of a debt, it just says its not mandatory.

It is basically a guarantee that if you use fed notes to settle a debt, that no court can rule the debt unsettled

I predict that they will get there money back....someday

reply to post by Blaine91555


Hey, if you want to make the argument for the prosecution, go for it! I didn't argue anything. Nor did I analyze any incentive for profit, since you had done so already. I just looked at how the program would work. It looks like it would. The idea is that the currency is backed by whatever the customers put in. If you can tell me how that is a scam, I'd like to know. Put a buck in, get a buck back in precious metal. Where's the scam? The scam could only be if LDC is not actually backing the currency that they issue. At least one person in the thread has bought in, didn't sound like he or she bought in out of fear. But, hey, if that's an angle that you've discovered, then that's cool, too.

Thing is, I've never heard of a company making a legal profit as being a crime or a scam. The $200 Nikes on your feet or your gym buddy's feet cost between $6 and $12 to make. "WOO HOO! Go Nike!" I don't see anybody who buys Nikes doing so out of fear. Contrary, they do so because they want Nikes. Generally, you can't buy goods and services with them either. You can't trade your Nikes back in for what you paid. Seems like LDs are a good deal.

The other thing is that your example focuses on market value and not price. LDC focuses on price. So a LD is always worth the price paid for it, it does not depend on market value. If I've missed something, I'm sure you'll let me know, and I'll be glad to hear it.

reply to post by dionysius9


You're assuming that the raid was based on something pernicious. As far as I can see, there is no evidence to back up that assertion.

Frankly the government has done nothing about bartering with precious metals, and until they do, this claim rings hollow.

[edit on 11/15/2007 by Togetic]

reply to post by dionysius9


Yes! The Money Masters. Essential viewing, indeed!

Originally posted by apc
I think the Liberty was in the clear until they started circulating paper notes. Until then, they were just like any other precious metals dealer.

This is not true. Congress is given the power to create currency. But this does not preclude me or Disney or anyone else from making currency. However, it doesn't mean that such currency will be accepted for all debts public and private. That is the difference between private and public currency.

Looks like liberty dollar has the FBI raid scoop on there website with all the details so far.

The scoop

reply to post by WorldShadow


Wow! At least this lays to rest, at least temporarily, any claims of the company defrauding their customers.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper
certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also
been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been
taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint,
acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not
violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the
paper currency too.

[edit on 15-11-2007 by Areal51]

Originally posted by Rahul Buttar
I don't understand how people can defend the practice of the Federal Reserve. At least when someone buys liberty dollars they are buying something tangible. Federal Reserve notes have no intrinsic worth besides the paper they are printed on. The only backing they have is our military. When a country decides to no longer trade oil in dollars we invade them (Iraq, and soon to be Iran.)

THAT is what dictates our foreign policy. THAT is why we have military bases around the world. And THAT is why no mainstream politician supports non-interventionism.

The "stability" factor as determining the value of currency exists with currencies on the gold standard as well. One would be well-advised to read up on the Asian fiscal crisis, where fixed currencies that tried to maintain a high value resulted in foreign investments being pulled out of the subject nations. But what's a little global economic meltdown between friends?

Likewise, how would we deal with the black markets in currency that exist for nations on fixed standards?

In a dynamic economy, a floating currency is the only logical conclusion. Only if the dollar goes into free-fall will a temporary reversion to a fixed standard be necessary.

[edit on 11/15/2007 by Togetic]

reply to post by Areal51


This doesn't lay anything to rest, because it is based on the assumption that everything in that letter is truthful. If they were defrauding people, I would hardly expect the head of the company to say in a letter "Aw, shucks, you got me!"

reply to post by Togetic


Well, gee, you don't suppose that he'd be incriminating himself by writing a fraudulent letter on his website, do you? How well would that strategy play for his day in court? It should be obvious that he was not arrested. There is no mention of arrests or charges being made, only search and seizure.


[edit on 15-11-2007 by Areal51]

reply to post by Areal51


It's probably not beneficial for him to be making any statements at this time.

He doesn't need to be arrested; the business is a separate legal entity.

[edit on 11/15/2007 by Togetic]

reply to post by Togetic


This I know very well. And in his capacity as "Monetary Architect" he represents the business as well as himself, and, so, operating in the capacity of his business, to inform his customers with fraudulent information is a crime. I really don't think he would be that stupid given the business and situation that he is in. After all, he and his company are facing the Fed. He's not facing Boss Hogg and Roscoe P. Coltrane.

[edit on 15-11-2007 by Areal51]

reply to post by Areal51


He doesn't make any affirmative representations about any charges or allegations, so I don't understand why writing this letter would have implicated him in any way.

After reading those warrants it seems that the Fed waited until LDC received the shipment of Ron Paul Dollars. The warrants were issued on November 8, 2007 and November 9, 2007. Probably needed to make sure that they would seize everything coming and going.

reply to post by Togetic


He refers to what was seized and he assures the customers that they haven't done anything illegal. Anyway, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.


[edit on 15-11-2007 by Areal51]

I think they don't want people to get these, the timing is strange since these guys have been around since 1998 they make Ron Paul coins and bam they are done.

www.libertydollar.org...

www.libertydollar.org...
great looking coins
www.libertydollar.org...

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 16-11-2007 by Blue_Jay33]

I remember when this broke on ronpaulforums.com. One topic had gotten over 1,000 responses in a single DAY.

This is indeed big news.