NAMBLA, Pedophiles and "Conspiracies of Silence" -- We're Not in Kansas Anymore.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I understand exactly what you are saying, and I certainly agree with you 150% on each and every issue. What I am trying to do, (and not too well) is play devil's advocate a bit and look at this topic through the eyes of a lawyer. In a perfect world groups like NAMBLA would never exist and their opinions and views would be completely pushed into the light and these "people" put on display so everyone knows WHO they are and can keep their children safe. However we do not live in a perfect world. I am also trying to look at this through the concept of "Free Speech". Like someone said earlier, free speech is great until someone says something you don't like. In my opinion, free speech is truly tested in situations like this discussion and groups such as NAMBLA. Like I said earlier, I in NO WAY endorse or support this "group" and I disagree whole heartedly with everything this "group" stands for.

Maybe using the NRA was a bad example, but I will stick with the MPP comparison because it too is an illegal activity. Obviously one crime is worse than another, but in the eyes of the law a crime is crime and I am discussing free speech in terms of things that are considered "illegal"

The only thing in your post that I do disagree with is kids knowing more now about sex. I stand by that statement. I do not feel it is a case of them being more "open" about it, I do think they know more. When I was 10 years old I didn't know nothing about oral sex. Have you talked to a 10 year old today? They sure do! My best friend has a 10 year old son and he told me all about oral sex. I was shocked and it also put my in a difficult situation. You want to teach them and educate them but then your thinking to yourself, "I can't talk to you about this topic cause you are too young" but then you realize he already knows and he learned it from kids at school, MTV, HBO, Movies. Today there are kids who think anal sex is fine and you are still considered a "virgin" if you have anal sex or oral sex just because the hymen is still intact. I even had this exact debate with an 18 year old just a few weeks ago who claimed to be a virgin and engages in those two acts I just described. I have to admit I was baffled by her logic, but that is what she believed and I sure didn't change her mind one bit.

Maybe what I do for a living puts me in a different place than most to gauge topics like this. I work in the adult entertainment industry and I have been since I turned 18 (I am now 35) and I see young girls day in and day out who just turned 18 and decide they want to strip, prostitute, or do porn for a living. I once even had a girl tell me she "strips for Jesus". Don't ask me to explain it because I sure can't, but that is the mentality I deal with.

To touch on the MSNBC show a bit, again I agree with you. Any adult should log off, say no, block etc etc. I agree with you. However I can see how others would not do that. I can understand to an extent how some men would eventually give in. In my opinion men think with their genitals more than a women does and as someone else has said, crimes like this are all about opportunity. I can see how a guy who is thinking with the wrong head might go after a 14 year old girl who is throwing herself at him if he thinks he can get away with it. I can understand how he would not view it as a crime if it is consensual and the female is pursuing him. It certainly does not make it right by any stretch of the imagination, but I can understand it. People are sometimes their own worst enemies. There are times where they will find ways to justify to themselves actions that they would not normally participate in. So I can see how a guy would say "no" to a decoy, then be pursued for a month, then the guy thinks with the wrong head, thinks that if this "girl" was really a cop she would not pursue him like she has and maybe no one would know, its not "rape" if she keeps bringing up sex and she obviously is interested, she doesn't sound 14, she doesn't look 14....maybe just maybe it would be ok. Again, I consider it faulty logic and wrong, but I can understand how someone might have that type of thought process.

I was even having a conversation with a friend of mine the other day about young girls today. We saw two girls walking down the street, short shorts on, halter tops, looking like your common streetwalker. It occurred to both of us that girls did not look back then the way they do now. Believe me if they did, I would have shown up to school more often!!! It seems like girls are developing earlier than they did when I was kid. Of course Brittney Spears and MTV have not helped as these young girls now make an attempt to be "sexy" or dress "sexy" when they hardly even know what sexy really is. From my view of the world, times have indeed changed, kids do know more at a younger age, and sexuality is right out in the open and kids of all ages see it.



[edit on 17/11/2007 by section8citizen]

The age of consent varies widely too, from 13 y/o upwards. So what might be a heinous wicked crime in one country might be a legal act in another.

Worldwide Ages Of Consent

I'm not arguing for a change in the law. I don't support the aims of Nambla to any extent. But children are sexually maturing - physically at least - at a younger age than even one generation ago. I'm not entirely sure why. Perhaps better nutrition than my generation ever enjoyed. I have four nieces and nephews all aged 11 and all four have started "their journey" through puberty already. For me puberty didn't start until I was 13.

I was probably typical too of my generation in that I didn't actually get "the talk" from my own Father. It just never happened. My Mother skirted around the issue briefly when I was 17 ... 17 !! Apart from that my only sexual education - until the deed itself - involved two pages in a 600 page science workbook ... and copies of pornographic magazines which were surreptitiously distributed by friends & I alike. But now children are exposed to sex far more widely on tv, movies & the internet etc.

Freedom of speech was being discussed in another thread recently, one which was looking at the merits, if any, of proposed anti harassment laws to protect the gay community in England. And many contributors there felt that freedom of speech is the be all and end all. And that no law should infringe your right to say whatever you want. Taking that to its logical conclusion you just have to put up with organisations such as Nambla no matter how personally distasteful you find them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I don't agree with unlimited freedom of speech. Sure, say whatever you want in public but be prepared to accept the consequences. If you advocate sex with children then be prepared to be shunned by your peers & marginalised in your own community. And also be prepared for the Police to take an interest in you ...

I'm not one for blanket statements but I reckon if you have an unhealthy interest in children & campaign for the law to be changed in order that you might have sex with children then there's every likelehood you've broken the law at some point by either viewing child pornography or much, much worse.

Hopefully the authorities have infiltrated Nambla already and are keeping tabs on the guys involved.

reply to post by SimiusDei



Please accept my appologies. I see this first hand. Kids are a treasure that need to be protected. KD3 is advocating something that for one thing is illegal and for another immoral. Too many times I have personally be on children in this situation. Too see the pain, both mentally and physically, that people inflict in these children will scar you forever. What makes it worse is that these people use the same arguments that KD3 is using to justify their actions. I am out their on the front lines to protect these kids when no one else will. It makes me sick to hear this argument over and over again. There is no justification for this what so ever.

reply to post by Niall197


While I do agree with you about how fast kids are physically maturing, it does not mean that they are maturing just as fast mentally. Alot of those countries that were listed with young age of consent also have a large instance of child prostitution. Doesnt seem like a 12 y.o. is mature enough to choose such a profession. Kind of a hard life for someone who should be playing with Barbies. Alot of freaks from around the world travel to these places to prey upon these kids. Just look at some of the news that has been in the headline lately.

You guys are aware that NAMBLA was a joke cooked up by Allan Ginsberg and Ken Kesey, right?

reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger


Care to back that statement up?

I would be very interested in any information you have supporting this.


Jasn

reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger


Im sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about.
NAMBLA is a very active group today. And the FBI has infiltrated the group. It exists.......unfortunately.

reply to post by The Good Reverend Roger


I didnt want to link the site, as im not sure as that would be allowed, understandibly.

From their site:

WELCOME! The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) was formed in 1978. It was inspired by the success of a campaign based in Boston's gay community to defend against a local witchhunt.

NAMBLA's goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships by:

building understanding and support for such relationships;
educating the general public on the benevolent nature of man/boy love;
cooperating with lesbian, gay, feminist, and other liberation movements;
supporting the liberation of persons of all ages from sexual prejudice and oppression.
Our membership is open to everyone sympathetic to man/boy love and personal freedom.
NAMBLA calls for the empowerment of youth in all areas, not just the sexual. We support greater economic, political and social opportunities for young people and denounce the rampant ageism that segregates and isolates them in fear and mistrust. We believe sexual feelings are a positive life force. We support the rights of youth as well as adults to choose the partners with whom they wish to share and enjoy their bodies.

We condemn sexual abuse and all forms of coercion. Freely-chosen relationships differ from unwanted sex. Present laws, which focus only on the age of the participants, ignore the quality of their relationships. We know that differences in age do not preclude mutual, loving interaction between persons. NAMBLA is strongly opposed to age-of-consent laws and all other restrictions which deny men and boys the full enjoyment of their bodies and control over their own lives.

NAMBLA does not provide encouragement, referrals or assistance for people seeking sexual contacts. NAMBLA does not engage in any activities that violate the law, nor do we advocate that anyone else should do so.

We call for fundamental reform of the laws regarding relations between youths and adults. Today, many thousands of men and boys are unjustly ground into the disfunctional criminal justice system. Blindly, this system condemns consensual, loving relationships between younger and older people. NAMBLA's Prisoner Program, with limited resources, works to provide a modicum of humanity to some of these people. Click here to find out more.

NAMBLA is a political, civil rights, and educational organization. We provide factual information and help educate society about the positive and beneficial nature of man/boy love. Become an active member! You can help in this historic struggle!

NAMBLA is the scum of the earth. Why in the hell this organization is allowed to continue to exist is beyond my understanding... I can't even tell you the horrible things that I'd like to see done to those who belong to the sick assed members of NAMBLA. I'd be barred from this site forever if I were to voice my opinion about what I think should be done to NAMBLA and its members. They are sick.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


SoT,

As always, I'm in 110% agreement with you.

Perhaps you should address it in a podcast as you are a bit more free there (as long as you remember to label it as adult content).



jasn

Simius, I may do a podcast. This NAMBLA group has always disturbed me.

[edit on 20-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


If you do one, let me know and I'll make sure to do my own podcast in response.


Now, if we could get green eyes to do one as well, we could get our very own Anti-Nambla, Anti-Pedophilia network going on.


Jasn

Originally ups that I have mentioned. You catch their membership living their idea.

As a firm believer in our Constitution and the principles that this country has been founded on you have to take the good with the bad. I, like you, do believe that NAMBLA should open their records and disclose who is a part of their membership. However I am not sure if they have to do it and that is something I will look into just out of my own curiosity. If other groups do have to disclose membership information, then NAMBLA should be held to that same standard. I would assume they do not as they would have a right to privacy, but I could be wrong and I hope I am.

On a more personal note and nothing more than pure speculation, I do believe that members of the government are members of NAMBLA or at the very least support their idea and goal. Even though stories of pedophilia that include members of the government are largely buried and rarely given the attention it so rightly deserves, I do not feel anyone can dismiss it or deny it

[edit on 16/11/2007 by section8citizen]
edited for spelling and one extra comment

[edit on 16/11/2007 by section8citizen]

you're not wrong. IN our town it was easy to see who the pedophiles higher up were.They were the ones who did not prosecute the abuse of children aggressively LEO should use this as an angle .. It's endemic in my town with the rich beng the ones who fuel it.. Nope you are not wrong, you are dead right