China Says Sanctions Will Not Help Iran Dispute

China Says Sanctions Will Not Help Iran Dispute

www.nytimes.com

The comments came as Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi went to Tehran for talks on the dispute, and while a senior U.S. Treasury official was in Beijing to discuss financial penalties on Iran.

"We urge Iran to respond positively to international calls and adopt a flexible stance. We hope that through dialogue and consultation we can promote progress towards resolution," ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao told a regular news conference.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is great news for believers in peace.... there will be a meeting of top nations on 11/19 to discuss this further.... seems like China needs the oil and doesn't want the sanctions mess. Look what happened to Iraq during sanctions -- put the country into dire poverty.

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I think that is what they want . They want Iran owing to the IMF , they want it's industries controlled under western debt. They dont want a middle eastern oil producing nation independant with nuclear energy going around doing what it likes , selling its oil for whatever currency it chooses . They have to be brought under the thumb of the international bankers , they have to acquiesce to the wishes of imperial america. I hope those sunburn missiles do their job : )

It will not come down to sunburn missiles now, I admit I would like to see US get a bloody nose , who would not ?

They (Americans) are or will be in diplomatic retreat shortly over the whole issue .



[edit on 13-11-2007 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil


that sounds about right. iran and venezuela are the only OPEC members left who are not under internatiional bank control. and they are "evil"

the book "confessions of an economic hitman" comes to mind.

www.youtube.com...

edit: to fix link

[edit on 13-11-2007 by turbokid]

[edit on 13-11-2007 by turbokid]

reply to post by turbokid


...busted link there turbokid... that is a good book for anyone interested in how these "hitmen" work to increase globalization.

Sometimes I disinclude Venezuela with how shady Chavez is. He hinders some free speech, he 'dictatored' himself in power until like 2013, protesters have been getting shot at rallies, and I question his relation to the U.S. They are on the list of exports of oil to the U.S. -- in the top ten no less. For him to truly be anti-American, why doesn't he NOT sell oil to them?


[edit on 13-11-2007 by anhinga]

reply to post by anhinga


you may or may not be right about chavez but the thing is, the exact same thing is happening in saudi arabia, egypt and pakistan right now but they play by the rules.
i thought this was a great article about Chavez and whats been going on down there

www.albionmonitor.com...

some quotes of interest

He is vocal in his opposition to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund's insistence on cutbacks in public spending and privatization of government-run entities in exchange for loans.

during the US backed coup attempt the people who were put in power did this..

The "new" president was Chamber of Commerce and Industry chairman Pedro Carmona. His first acts included suspending the 1999 constitution and disbanding the elected National Assembly, the Supreme Court, the attorney general's office, the national election commission and the state governorships. Carmona's new "democratic unity" cabinet was made up of only the far right and the new government would rule by decree until new elections were held in 2003.

rule be decree is a nice way of saying "what i say goes" AKA dictatorship.
disbanding elected officials and suspending the constitution? and america supports this kind of "democracy" ???
BTW when Chavez took back power from the corporate hooligans he reinstated the constitution. some dictator.

also he wants to amend the constitution to allow more or longer term limits, but he would still have to run and get voted in, just like before. and there would be a vote on the amendment by the constitutional assembly

could it be this?

Chavez: Venezuela Moves Reserves to Europe
CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuela has moved its central bank foreign reserves out of U.S. banks, liquidated its investments in U.S. Treasury securities and placed the funds in Europe, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Friday.

Since 2004 Chavez has repeatedly raised taxes and royalties on foreign oil companies operating in his country, while mandating that Petroleos de Venezuela be given a majority stake in all oil operations.

His steps have led both Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM) and ConocoPhillips (COP) to exit the South American country

www.businessweek.com...

reply to post by turbokid


Thanks for that link (ordered the book now), more on the type of scum that keep the third world in debt here :

What is a vulture fund and why do they prey on Africa? A vulture fund is, according to the IMF, a company that buys a poor nation's debt on the cheap and then sues that nation for the full value of the original loan plus interest. Most African countries are vulnerable, because they are debtors and owe the IMF, World Bank and other international financial institutions substantial loans.

These developing countries, especially African nations, are not protected by any international laws or by the United Nations. When their debts are in default, written-off and forgiven, vulture funds can still acquire the debts and use their powerful connections and extraordinary lobbying capabilities to compel the original debtors to pay the full amount. This happened to Peru, Zambia, Congo Brazzaville, Democratic Republic of Congo and it might happen to other poor countries.

What is the vulture funds' threat to developing countries? A single fund run by Kenneth B Dart claimed $700m in a lawsuit against the Argentine government. Similar actions have been taken against Panama, Ecuador, Poland, Cote d'Ivoire, Turkmenistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo and while it may just be a piece of business to the vulture funds, these people are trading in human misery.

commentisfree.guardian.co.uk...

[edit on 17-11-2007 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/18/2007 by Gools]

How about this..

Iran gets their nukes and whatever else they want since they are a country, but if they ever use them or the weapons find their way into independent groups and are used that country ceases to exist.
Is that acceptable?

Originally posted by Xtrozero
How about this..

Iran gets their nukes and whatever else they want since they are a country, but if they ever use them or the weapons find their way into independent groups and are used that country ceases to exist.
Is that acceptable?

I guess that would be acceptable to everyone except the 100,000 or so people who die when their weapon is actually used. Of course, many people on this fourm seem to delight in dead Americans so you should all be quite happy . . .

Iran says ready to act if attacked

Some more rhetoric from the Iranian leader.

Originally posted by itguysrule

Originally posted by Xtrozero
How about this..

Iran gets their nukes and whatever else they want since they are a country, but if they ever use them or the weapons find their way into independent groups and are used that country ceases to exist.
Is that acceptable?

I guess that would be acceptable to everyone except the 100,000 or so people who die when their weapon is actually used. Of course, many people on this fourm seem to delight in dead Americans so you should all be quite happy . . .

Thank you,


You led my logic to the conclusion that many here see as an OK situation. Actually I'm not so much worried about the US as much as a European country or even more Israel. For small countries it would be unrecoverable to be hit by a nuke and that is what we as in the world need to protect.

reply to post by Xtrozero


But how will sanctions stop Iran from getting a nuke should they decide that is what they want? Wasn't North Korea under sanctions as well when they tested their nuke?

It just seems like sanctions aren't the best way to get the leaders of a country to do something -- it's the population that suffers in the end and that will no doubt be used by the leaders as ammo to justify 'how evil' the ones who placed the sanctions are.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
How about this..

Iran gets their nukes and whatever else they want since they are a country, but if they ever use them or the weapons find their way into independent groups and are used that country ceases to exist.
Is that acceptable?

I love it!!! I agree 100%

Originally posted by Beachcoma
But how will sanctions stop Iran from getting a nuke should they decide that is what they want? Wasn't North Korea under sanctions as well when they tested their nuke?

It just seems like sanctions aren't the best way to get the leaders of a country to do something -- it's the population that suffers in the end and that will no doubt be used by the leaders as ammo to justify 'how evil' the ones who placed the sanctions are.

They will do nothing for Iran since Russia and China will not honor them. But I will admit that sanctions have greatly affected North Korea. For them to get to where they are in the nuke program their leader put great suffering on the population, and we are now seeing a change there because of it.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I was under the impression the change happened because of negotiations with Russia, not really because of the sanctions. I'm not saying the sanctions don't factor in, just that the negotiations weighted in even more.

reply to post by Xtrozero


You've inadvertently hit upon exactly why sanctions fail as the tool they are intended as. When used against a true dictator such as Kim or Saddam, sanctions work to strengthen the dictator's position by hurting the population. Those in power are hardly effected since they will claim all that is left of remaining economic in-flow, yet the innocent people under their rule are drastically impacted. This in turn allows the dictator to say "Look at what the West has done to you! They are evil and want you to suffer", and so the people become more loyal to the dictator.

Sanctions don't work because they can't work.

If the US wants peace with Iran, they should be in there helping. What better way to ensure that the do not develop nuclear weapons than being directly involved in their nuclear energy program? It would cost a lot less than going to war and would create a powerful platform for future relations and stability in the Middle East.

Of course, that isn't what they want.
AS mentioned above, they want a destabilized nation off of which they can turn a buck and keep under their thumb while not having to fear any sort of competition.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
If the US wants peace with Iran, they should be in there helping. What better way to ensure that the do not develop nuclear weapons than being directly involved in their nuclear energy program? It would cost a lot less than going to war and would create a powerful platform for future relations and stability in the Middle East.

Iran doesn't want help for their program is truly centered on a nuclear weapons program. France and other countries have offered to build their reactors using light water technology in exchange for them to stop.

Iran wants unconditional control over their nuclear program and that really leaves no room for any other country to help them.

The big question is should the world just sit back and let them? Are we also 100% certain that they want them for totally defensive purposes only, and are we willing to bet “all in” that a missile with a nuke warhead doesn’t head towards a major city, or one just happens to show up detonated by a terrorist group?

Exactly. Other nations have offered to build and support Irans nuclear technology through use of light water reactors. Iran is the one who spurned those offers. Why? Why do they only want heavy water reactors?

If all they want is so called "peaceful nuc lear technology" then why turn down interntaional offers to help build their program? Hmmmm. Come on Iran apologists...tell us about turning down light water reactors.