ATS Infiltration?

It is with a certain degree of dismay that I have noticed an unusual amount of 'Mod slinging' recently.
Now while it is perfectly healthy to voice your displeasure/concern over decisions that may APPEAR to be unwarranted 'front of house', it is always worth consideration that there may be justification 'backstage' and you just DO NOT see the full picture sometimes.

I see so many discussions now about 'censorship' on ATS..
Threads being removed..more threads opened about why threads about threads being removed are removed..et cetera ad infinitum.

The ONLY threads I have seen removed are
Duplicate threads,hoax threads and threads that have degenerated into one or two members hurling insults at each other,resulting in mod warnings..more mod warnings and finally closure as the OP topic is no longer being discussed.

Now I'm not the most 'serious minded' poster on ATS..
I prefer lighter/way out topics for light reading but,
ATS is practically my sole news provider,getting what could be described as almost instantaneous reports on events as they happen,from practically the first reports posted.

I am seeing more and more threads that,to me, are nothing but a distraction from what ATS is supposed to be about and it has made me start to wonder..

Is this deliberate??..

Has a decision been made that,maybe, some topics being discussed are getting too close to the truth and covert action is being taken to attempt to disgruntle the members.

Are ATS 'moles' trying to bring down the site by constantly projecting that it is no longer supporting free discussion.

I just felt the need to voice my concern here that 'loyalty' to a free access site should be paramount as it is not a 'right' to be a member here,more of a privilege.

The last thing I want to see is the owners thinking.'Hey stuff this' and selling up due to a few people who,in my opinion, are crapping in their own nest.

I've been reading this site for so many years now it's just not funny and am noticing a distinct change from a 'homey' atmosphere where intellectuals gathered to share information that they have spent time researching and verifying..

To posts where a VERY basic and deliberately controversial statement is made and no opinions/insight given..except a 'Tell me what you think about this'..

These are the ones that usually degenerate into total dross.

I really hope this is NOT the case and this isn't an ongoing sabotage attempt to turn ATS into a 'comment' site like the morons you get on Youtube and a thousand other forums

reply to post by AGENT_T


For a moment there I thought this was one of those COINTELPRO threads, but after reading through it, you do bring up some interesting and possibly valid points.

This point really jumped out to me because I noticed it, too:

I've been reading this site for so many years now it's just not funny and am noticing a distinct change from a 'homey' atmosphere where intellectuals gathered to share information that they have spent time researching and verifying..

To posts where a VERY basic and deliberately controversial statement is made and no opinions/insight given..except a 'Tell me what you think about this'..

I agree with the above posts. I also noticed more opinion based threads than actual theory (with proof) threads. No offense, but opinion doesn't belong here. Anyone can come up with many thoughts and ideas, but that doesn't mean much if there's no evidence or some sort of proof.

Opinions should be separated from actual conspiracies that provide some sort of proof.

Before I start any thread, I make sure I have some sort of website to at least offer some point on the matter, rather than just my own opinion.

Opinions are like religions. Everyone has their own interpretation and nobody can prove what they say is 100 correct. So what we end up with is arguing on what is more 'probable'.

reply to post by Beachcoma


Wow, I'm really glad someone else is seeing it.
It's getting so bad that sometimes I find topics to post and reconsider because I know certain members will jump over it at just take it to a purely personal level.

This isn't how it's supposed to be surely?
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one too.

Some of my favourite posters have been recruited to Mods now and it just doesn't seem like they're being replaced with a new intake of 'intellectual equals' let's say to be polite.

I'd much rather read a well researched post..however wacky.. even if it only lasts a couple of pages.

Not the constant whinging..
It's just not good reading .

I have been here a while to.
I think I actually KNOW WHY thread quality has degenerated of late.....so let me toss out what I think and let you all chew on it.

Just a few months ago ATS started quite the advertising campaign via radio adds on Coast to Coast am. Hey thats a GREAT show and I listen to that way more than sleeping in the wee hours. I get a kick out of the ATS adds, but at the same time it worries me............
....that YES we are bringing up the numbers in membership but at the same time we are getting a lot of riff-raff type members. People who do NOT actually do research they just start threads mentioning a tiny bit about a subject then sit back and wait for others to 'fill them in on the details' as they are not used to seeking answers for themselves.
Folks who sit and listen to what they are being told on the radio, and if they get lucky to actually get a call on air to ask a question, the question of course must be limited in detail due to how a radio show works.........Sooooo here they are at ATS now in droves, just wanting to ask some very limited questions and sit back and let others do the real work of providing them with clear and concise answers.
I see this all over the board since the advertising campaign started......I watch as long time members go over subjects that have been gone over in the past for the benefit of the new members who are not used to actually seeking for a deeper meaning.
The advertisements claim that real thinking people are on this site to help folks to understand the deeper meaning of things, so in a sense..........the long time members who research things are the draw to bring in new members. The new members EXPECT to be able to make little minimalistic posts and EXPECT the older members to take the time to walk them through it.........for this is pretty much what is being promised on Coast to Coast.
Come to ATS....ask anything you want, and the Great THINKING members of the world will tell you whatever you want to know blah blah blah.........

I LIKE that ATS is becoming MORE well known............I think the new members will be brought in to the way things work here, or they will just get board and move along. I like that more thinking folks are being brought to ATS because of the advertisements.......but I also realize that many of the new folks will not care for the way ATS works and may not want to participate after a few vague trys..........so in the interim we are going to SEE all these fits and starts of the new people attempting to blend in on the boards, which of course can't help but look like a flood of frivolous postings (which they are).............I do not think this can be avoided.

HOWEVER............we are getting some fantastic new members that add so much to the quality of ATS!
But in order to bring in these awesome folks we also have to deal with the 'not so awesome'...............and I have faith that the non quality folks will get board and go away, leaving us with the actual thinkers and researchers and the people WILLING to have the civil discussions that us 'old school' members are so used to...

Thats what I think is happening.
Thats MY take on it.
I could be wrong though..................I have been wrong before.
I am after all a natural blond.




[edit on 12-11-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

This sounds a lot like my thread from a few months ago, the title is even the same...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by theRiverGoddess



I completely agree.


I think you did hit the nail on the head when you mentioned concern over going 'mainstream'.

I don't want it to sound like we aren't getting ANY good member intake.
I'm pretty sure Anhinga wouldn't mind a mention in providing tons of fresh news posts.

I'm thinking along the lines of clever clogs like Chissler,Gemwolf and Valhall to name but very few quality contributors.

They are the kind that would scare the living heck out of anyone that really didn't want a particular topic to see the light of day.

I'm just concerned that any 'lurkers' like I was would be reluctant to join now that it seems more like a 'join and attack the management' site.

reply to post by Vipassana


Wow! talk about close

Maybe I'm sikik lol.

I think I'm addressing a slightly different issue though.
About members trying to 'distract' from quality topics as opposed to posting 'disinfo'
Good link though. I'm gonna have a read through.

Originally posted by quintar
No offense, but opinion doesn't belong here.

Hi there Quintar, I would like to respectfully disagree with this statement. This site has alot of "Alternative topics" and many are unfortunatly un-prooven. Any thread started about aliens, ufos, big foots, are going to be lacking solid 100% proof. But without ATS people wouldn't have such a great site to discuss there opinions on things they believe exist in there opinion, but lack proof of. Again this disagreement is meant to be humble and respectful. Another thing that comes to mind is the Big Bang, isn't the Big Bang just an educated opinion of one possible explaination to the origin of the universe? but in the end it's just an opinion

reply to post by quintar


Opinion is one of the cornerstones of ATS.
Proof is subjective and often open to interpretation.

One of the things that has always attracted me to ATS is the fact that you are allowed to have an opinion on just about any topic - and many of the topics are pretty much impossible to "prove" and rely on various opinions to make a case.

The day everything becomes black and white and opinion counts for nothing, si the day ATS is no longer interesting.

How To Spot A Disruptor

I know for a fact that there are individuals and groups who make it their business to deliberately disrupt discussion on ATS. I see it all the time.

They range from your basic Internet trolls and troll gangs (typically bored, mischievous kids) to ideological extremists trying to push their agendas (racist groups being a classic example) to hucksters trying to make a fast buck by inappropriately using the site for advertising and promotion of some product or another -- and a small percentage whose motives may well be more sinister.

What makes them all stand out aren't their opinions but the tactics they use: personal attacks, off-topic posts, thread derailment, spamming, baiting, hit-and-run, etc.

They are easy to spot because they clearly aren't here to discuss the issues, but rather to try to control the discussions with their antics or, failing that, sabotage the ability of other members to discuss the issues themselves.

They know what they're doing, and for anyone who's familiar with the tricks of their trade, they stand out like sore thumbs.

Rules Of Thumb

Such behavior also happens to run afoul of the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use, which is one reason why enforcing them is so important.

Please note that no member is a "disruptor" simply because they may have differing views on an issue. If that were the case, we'd all be disruptors.

Rather, bona fide disruption consists of nothing more nor less than behavior which directly interferes with civil, candid topical discussion.

Lately there does seem to be an increase in this, and it needs to stop.

Disrupting The Disruptors

Members can help by alerting us to T&C violations when they occur, and (of course) by not violating the rules themselves.

Meanwhile, though we always endeavor to give all members the benefit of the doubt, I'm actively encouraging my fellow moderators to take decisive action against disruptors once identified.

Members who honor the T&C and respect the concept of common courtesy have nothing to worry about.

Those who do not, however, will eventually end up somewhere else, one way or another.

reply to post by cynical572


While I agree,there's a world of difference between..

'I think reptillians exist for real. What do you think?'... and

'My theory for the existence of reptillians' followed by at least a few reasons/links etc.

Everyones opinions ARE valid of course but seemingly deliberately turning round a conversation into baiting and personal attacks has got to be classed as sabotage surely?

Some threads are started with quite an transparent agenda behind them.

reply to post by AGENT_T


As more and more, we people considered on the fringe are taken seriously, the more we need to be marginalized, in the eyes of those with a vested interest in the status quo. Sure, we are taking the heat. It may likely get worse.

How many people see the thread on CNN having a discussion on UFOs and tie it to the 5th of November Revolution? As the snowball of awareness of us leading a revolution grows, so will the varied forms of attack.

We are challenging the cemented version of "how things are done", and not everyone is happy. It's not some grand conspiracy to silence us, it's the Neanderthals trying to stem the tide of the Cro Magnons, and dig in their heels at a brave new world that is overtaking them. It is individuals that all at once are aware that we are a danger to what has "always" been.

We are the focal point, the ones to draw fire. We are forefront in the assault on the fortress of silence that has too long stood front and center as THE Guardian of Society. We have been, since that day, the subject of phone calls and cocktail party gossip. To them we are the boogyman.

Gird your loins, tuck up your skirts, pass the ammunition to the front, and load the rifles as they come back with hot barrels, and jammed receivers. We have found the enemy, and he is ignorance. Hold fast the line, for the defenders of the old way are desperate, feeling as they do the very ground give way under their feet.

This will scarce be the last wave we shall see of their kind.

Originally posted by Majic
How To Spot A Disruptor

1,I know for a fact that there are individuals and groups ...

2...hucksters trying to make a fast buck by inappropriately using the site for advertising....

3..and a small percentage whose motives may well be more sinister.

1 and 2 you get everywhere and you're right. It's easy to respond by simply not responding

3 is exactly that..sinister.
Why is it valid to constantly bombard the board with complaints almost to the point of defamation of character when it is so easy to say to yourself.

''Hey it's not my house..I don't like it..I'm leaving''

People must know when they join there are rules involved and no amount of bitchin is going to change that.

Why do they want threads re-instated that have degenerated to dross??
How is that beneficial??

I started a tounge in cheek version of this point a week ago that was removed.. I u2u'd the person that removed it.. they explained the reason behind it and I accepted it.

SO WHAT??
What would be the point of crying about it?
What would I have achieved in protesting or starting another thread on why it was removed and cause a drama?
At the risk of overshadowing a thread that deserved more attention too.

From now on,when I see one of these type of threads I'm going to search the rest of the board and see if someone's thread is deliberately being pushed off the 'recent posts' board.

It really sickens me to think that this could be a deliberate tactic.

I've been here long enough and seen plenty of inflitrations..

one isn't going on now, you would know if there was.
I've had plenty of chats to SkepticOverlord about COINTELPRO, but I don't think nothing is going on at the moment.

Just afew bad apples trying to get attention

[edit on 12-11-2007 by infinite]

reply to post by infinite


I hope not.


Maybe it could simply be people acting a little spoilt.

Instead of a 'sinister' CIA type infiltration it could be industrial.
eg A rival company jealous at the success of the advertising campaign trying to dilute the content posted here.

reply to post by AGENT_T


I'm not certain that the effort you envision is activity in motion here on your website. But I can say with certainty that such actions have been, and are indeed operational across the web.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
eg A rival company jealous at the success of the advertising campaign trying to dilute the content posted here.

Thats happened before with THAT other board (which is now closed)

may I ask which section of ATS has this been occuring? (or is it right across the board)

reply to post by stcola_guy


And how do you come by this information? Details are most needed. Please, do expound on this, and name names if you have them.

reply to post by stcola_guy


That goes without saying.
When you think of a forum getting off the ground relying on maintaining a 'family friendly' atmosphere for business that doesn't have the level of modding as ATS..

How easy would it be to take it down to a scummy level keeping it off 'pg' rated search engines.

I swear like a trooper in the 'right company' but there a time and a place.
I get furious at places like utube when intellectually devoid subhumans TXTSPK irrelevant insults at each other and advertise cheesy cam sites and such.