Intelligence deputy to America: Rethink privacy

Ive got my gun and knives--lets see them take those away from me without hurting themselves.

You know, such things make me wonder sometimes. I live in Russia and I'm very happy with what I have and what my country can do for me. I have noticed that it has become quite popular in the West to blame Russia for the lack of democracy and for taking legal rights here from the people, but I can tell you these assumptions are very far from being truth. I just can't name any right I have been taken away since my childhood or comparing me to an average American I just don't see any large difference. Everyone lives as he likes and nobody cares about what you say over the phone line, what financial operations you perform (except large sums of course) or what your lifestyle is. There is an absolutely free way of life and there are no attempts from the media to brainwash and thus nobody is addicted to one opinion. Most of the time the objective point of view is given, and things like fear mongering, neurolinguistic programming are absent (what I can't really tell about western media). I may agree that very little time is devoted to the opposition of today's government but I can assure you there is no real opposition here except people who were very busy robbing the country through the 90's and leading it to financial collapse of August, 1998. These people are criminals and there is no way they can obtain another possibility to rule the country because that would be a whole disaster. Just think about it. Now they are saying that when they get elected they can create a better life in Russia. But when asked a question like: "Why haven't you done this before, when you were the government ?" - they are keeping silence. Well, no surprise here.

Being on ATS for a quite a long time already I have noticed a lot of information about steps of the American government towards taking away liberty from its people. At least that is the way I see it. The holy grail of the world's democracy just can't be like that.. I hope that next elections will bring you a better man to be the president and all this loose-your-privacy stuff won't be brought to life. After all, if you feel unhappy there any time soon you're very welcome to Russia. I'm sure you will like it here.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Leevi]

reply to post by Leevi


Look I really hope that your not from the UK because it is sooo much worse over there at least right now. I think the UK will be a test bed for the US. And that line about trust us were the government made me laugh. I think most people know the government is up to something just not as drastic as we know it to be.

i posted this link and article first before you and in a polite way i must say it rude to repost. at least i take time to skim the threads before i post so i dont repost someone elses thread.

Wow, it's as if the book "1984" is becoming reality \o/

"Privacy can no longer mean anonymity."

?!

I'm calling DOUBLESPEAK on that one.

"War is peace, Freedom is slavery, Ignorance is strength."

DARPA, TIA, Genoa II, WAE, Rapid Analytical Wargaming, FutureMAP, EARS, TIDES, GALE, Babylonoperations, Syphony, Gensys, EELD, SSNA, MInDet, Bio-ALIRT, HumanID, ARM, NGFR, Eschelon, Combat Zones That See, Echelon, Carnivore, Intellipedia, LifeLog, Magic Lantern... Virtual Reality.

They know chip number 123998, chip number 2449, and chip number xl;kjs4335 have been traveling together since 1997. They have a record of the typical patterns of travel for those chips. For the most part they stay around cincinatti, ohio... but take annual visits to vermont via route 80. That combination of chips becomes a group of databases; that pinging group signature, is you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are chipped. They are listening. Watch your mouth.

Sri Oracle

Has anyone taken the time to read the post by togetic? If you haven't read it, I suggest you take a few minutes and do so. It is the most well-reasoned post written here.

What I see here is paranoia and sensationalism at it's best. Police states, losing our freedoms, move to Russia (ha! that was a good one!) , etc., etc.

Take the time and read that post instead of jumping to conclusions and giving in to fear. A reasoned discussion on the definition of privacy is a good idea, not a bad one.

There is a big difference in gathering all the information you can, and then use it as you see fit... or to gather information you believe will be valueable in a case of crime/crimesolving.

Definition of privacy: the quality of being secluded from the presence or view of others.
... Anyones right, as long as you follow the law if you ask me

The american government needs to rely on the people, more than the people should be forced to rely on the government.

Afterall aren't the government selected by the people to serve the people???

besides why would you want to gather all the information you can for a case, instead of going for the info you need for the specific case?, this would only leed to a huge pile of work trying to find the material you need for the case.

So i believe there is a hidden agenda with this, whatever it may be...

Taken on its own, any invasion of privacy would be bad news but understandable (to some degree) if it really meant potentially saving lives. However, putting it together with all the other assaults on the constitution since 9/11, it's really quite scary. Even more scary is that it's happening right under people's noses and they don't seem to realize...or care "oh, that could never happen here..." is something I've heard frequently when talking about this with friends and family. Well it is happening here. The constitution is being seriously undermined by this administration and people need to wake up. It's not paranoia!

reply to post by jsobecky


So you don't believe that the government is taking away our rights? I read his post, and I can see where he makes a very good point. We shouldn't rush to premature judgments about something that we only have preliminary evidence for. However, in this case, we have a 6+ year history of usurpations of our rights, all following what appears to have been a staged attack on our nation.

Do I know this to be true? Nope. Am I a sensationalist for thinking so though? That's not for me to decide. What I do know is that I will try to remain open-minded when it comes to seeing things like this on the news.

I don't know though how anyone can mistake this for anything BUT the desire of the government to poke their nose where it doesn't belong:

Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people's private communications and financial information.

Why should anyone be in charge of safeguarding my stuff but ME? Since when does someone else decide what of mine needs to be safeguarded? I find that at least moderately offensive, don't you?

TheBorg

POLICE STATE = AMERIKKKA


cereal doesn't mean golden grahams anymore, it means eating rotton meat covered in sour anteater milk.

The governments definition of privacy. Repeat this mantra atleast three times a day. Anyone who values their privacy, do so because they have something to hide. If they have something to hide, then they are obviously up no good and therefore a criminal.





[edit on 13-11-2007 by kindred]

the old frog in a breaker story, slowly add heat, and it will slowly cook without knowing

give the populous freedom of speech, slowly tighten the privacy laws and they will not notice..... till its too late

reply to post by TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
I don't know though how anyone can mistake this for anything BUT the desire of the government to poke their nose where it doesn't belong:

Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people's private communications and financial information.

Why should anyone be in charge of safeguarding my stuff but ME? Since when does someone else decide what of mine needs to be safeguarded? I find that at least moderately offensive, don't you?

TheBorg

Well, let's see. What about financial records? Is a transaction fully protected from the instant you swipe your credit card until the bill is paid and the debt recorded as satisfied? We have SSL, S-HTTP, etc.

But what if a hacker manages to compromise your server?

What recourse do you have, except to wage a techno-war against the hackers? Can you afford it? Are you that tech-savvy? Not everyone is.

Aha! we have consequences and penalties! Fines and jail terms. Nobody has the right to levy those penalties except the gov't.

That's why they need to be nvolved.

Take a minute to look at this video. This is how much control and regulation we need. Everthing over and above this is robbery in disguise.

Google Video Link

We lost OUR "freedom" a long time ago. What is going on now is a long successful war on the part of the oligarchical class to regain the freedom IT lost as a result of the Industrial Revolution.

The oligarchical class wants to go back to being like medieval lords, having ALL the money and being treated like God's anointed, demi-gods on earth, able to treat ordinary people as their whims dictate.

[edit on 13-11-2007 by ipsedixit]

While I find it disagreeable that the government should seek to increase the information it collects about private citizens, what I find especially disturbing about the article is the idea that Americans will need to "change their definition of privacy." I don't think it's the government's role to define for us what our language means.

I get a sinking feeling every time I hear the word "conservative" used to describe the radical policies of the right wing, or I hear about "conservative" judges overturning well-established legal precedent (as in the recent Meredith v. Jefferson County Board of Education Supreme Court Ruling).

I think the government is becoming too accustomed to the ability to influence language, an ability facilitated by a broad media presence. "Privacy" means what the English-speaking population says it means, not what some bureaucrats would like it to mean.

I also dislike the government's desire to monopolize privacy. Citizens are not given information about many things the govenment does, but the government can know anything about citizens. Some may call this hypocritical or a double-standard, but in the context of a state-controlled information-based economy, I think this represents an exploitation of monopoly power.

For those of you who might disagree with my characterization of the US economy as state-controlled, ask yourselves what free market forces led the US government to bail out private airlines after 911, or banks in the ongoing subprime lending crisis, or what open market forces compelled the FCC to require that television broadcasters switch to digital transmissions. Consider what open market forces forbid Medicare providers from obtaining bulk discounts in drug purchases from pharmaceutical companies, or inhibit commerce in marijuana products, or manipulate the price of farming commodities.

We are told this is an information economy. In an information economy, consumers become commodities. Your actions are bought and sold, your preferences become a marketing strategy, and your privacy is the government's property.

As people become accustomed to their language being readily manipulated - that is, as people become accustomed to the commodification of language - control over language itself becomes an economic incentive.

So if Americans change their definition of privacy, they have nothing to complain about when they pay their Internet service providers to spy on them for the government. Invasion of privacy can be marketed as a feature. Think about spam filters. Would you tolerate the Post Office reading all your mail? Create an annoyance that makes privacy invasion desirable; change the definition of privacy and you're left with a feature. Buy the feature and you consolidate their monopoly, and you yourself become somebody else's cash cow.

This site cracks me up. That snippet is taken completely out of context. The way that official meant that was to say that due to technology there really isn't "privacy" in communications and that the government needs to figure out HOW to protect privacy of individuals.

I have finally figured out the conspiracy type of mentality. It is basically this, "if I don't understand something, then it is a threat!"

Thankyou ATS for allowing me to see this clearly.

I will see the rest of you on the other side of 2012.

complacancy and resignation are the watch words
of the sheeple "what are you going to do?" their motto
they don't care as long as they get their latte's
they will continue to shove their heads further and further
into the sand. and why not it's easier


reply to post by tyranny22

Sheeple is quite overused these days. I think it is embarrassing for anyone when they refer to other human beings as sheeple.

I suppose you and your kind are the only ones intelligent enough to know the TRUTH!?

I think the reality here is that you are confused and afraid because the modern world is too complicated for you and so you resort to conspiracy logic to make sense of the world around you.


Much like people did many centuries ago when they created religions. They couldn't understand a hurricane or an earthquake so they just assigned it's damage to something metaphysical and called it the TRUTH!

Most of you here are doing a very similar thing whether you realize it or not.