Remember, remember the 5th of November.

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot...

In 1605, when Guy Fawkes attempted to blow up the houses of parliment, and assassinate the king, he did more then just carry barrels of gunpowder into the cellar. He carried ideas.

The idea that things like control are just words. That words like Liberty, Justice, Equality aren't just ideas, They are horizons. The idea that anyone has the ability to change something they don't agree with, and that anyone can make a difference.

Sadly, November 5th is no longer remembered. When someone mentions the same kind of concept that I mentioned earlier, they will be shrugged off as some kind of lunatic. Why? Because the human civilization has been put under so many different layers of control, that they no longer have the ability to think for themselves. We do whatever THEY tell us to. We think what they want us to think.




We have lost our freedoms.

Now, you may be saying to yourself, "I can still think for myself! I am an individual human being!", but sadly, you aren't. We, as citizens of either America, or Canada, (Wherever you may reside), are afraid of our government. We won't stand up against government, or systems of authority, even when we see something wrong. "But Masked, there isn't anything wrong with our government, They are here to help us."

Wrong. There is something terribly wrong with our government. Unless of course, you think them taking away our freedom of speech, religion and press is alright. The constitution is slowing be deteriorated, because THEY don't want you to have those freedoms. They want you to live in their world. To do as they say.

But what if, we didn't do as they say?

What if we said no?

If we stood up and fought, we could bring down their system of control. No, not fight with guns or cannons, but with words, just as I am doing right now.

Idea's are bulletproof. Speak your mind.

[edit on (11/11/0707 by Hexidecimal]

Rebelling would cause havoc, think of the world without a government. There would be no one to say, "Hey, don't steal that!". We need a government to keep society in place. Guy Fawkes was a criminal, thats what your people who try to control themselves do what they do. They kill people, They steal things & most of all, they cause havoc to the world. relive 9-11 for a sec. 9-11 was something that the GOVERNMENT of the US could not control. If your so called "Perfect" world existed, there would be no world. We need a government to keep ourselves in order.

Osama Bin Laden is a good example, he is a mass killer/maniac guy. He is constantly rebelling against government. Is this the kind of "Perfect" world you would like?

reply to post by Nyte Angel


The government kills people, steals things and causes havoc.

I didn't say lose the government, I said lose the system of control. I agree we need government, but not the control they are using.

[edit on (11/11/0707 by Hexidecimal]

Originally posted by Hexidecimal
reply to post by Nyte Angel

 

The government kills people, steals things and causes havoc.

Well the "government" is made up of people. Now some people in government kill people, but that does not mean all of them do.


Or something like that lol

How would you like a world overrun by Osama Bin Ladens? I wouldn't, thats why we have a government to keep the world from becoming a mass chaotic bomb. Government are here to help us from becoming corrupt, and destroying our world. If we had no government, how would the world run? IMO I don't think it would run period. We need a government to keep us on track.

Now, if Osama was high up in the government, being the way he is today. We would all being doing slave work, thats if we were still alive. Saying we don't need a government is like saying we don't need food and water, both playing a big tole in our lives.

Government is just there to help protect us. Sure they hurt us sometimes, but you cant expect them to be completely perfect. It's better then having 1000's of people die a day from murders.

I think I have the solution right here, we don't use violence at all, we simply do not let those who show they are corrupt or dishonest have any power anymore

www.abovetopsecret.com...
(one of my threads)

reply to post by Hexidecimal


Then what would be the point of having a government then? If they didn't have power over us, there would be absolutely no point at all. Like I've said before, we need a government to keep our world on the right track.

Then what would be the point of having a government then? If they didn't have power over us, there would be absolutely no point at all. Like I've said before, we need a government to keep our world on the right track.

FASCIST!

just kidding, I have just always wanted to call someone that.

I don't think it's time to rebel yet. Just wait until they ban guns in the US, then its green light.

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
I don't think it's time to rebel yet. Just wait until they ban guns in the US, then its green light.

Why would that mean a good to go? Even then, your going to have people with guns. The government is obviously still going to use firepower as a political defense. All I have to say about this is that were in an age where no matter what we try and do, you cant find a way to beat the government.

The response of "no government = chaos" or "no government = stealing" is really just an example of people being under layers of control, referred to in the OP. Why do you immediately think, " No government .... No one to say "Don't steal?" Is this an indication of what you would do? The government doesn't make you a thief or an honest person. So why equate the two? This mindset relies on the government to tell you what is right and wrong. I believe this is an example of conditioning. Conditioning portrayed massively in the media for the people to fear each other. Then we rely on the government to protect us from ourselves. This destroys our idea of community, which would be essiential without government.

People do actually take care of each other from time to time, too. Remember after 9/11, we all came together. After Katrina, we again came together to take care of each other. People don't declare war on each other, governments do. But it's the people who kill each other is response. We're not all savages, and I'm sure the human race could exist without the government as we know it.

reply to post by BPI

Yes, but why did it take something so globally epic, just to have people come together for a short period of time? Its not worth the loss of a government. And all I'm saying is that if we had no government, who would be there to say something like " don't rape my ..." or " please don't hurt me!!". We need a government for these kinds of reasons.

Its not that we have to protect ourselves from each other, we have to protect ourselves from the people who do try to rebel. This is why we have a government so that we can send these kind of people to Prison. Without a government, there wont be anyone being sent to jail, which would end with them causing complete havoc to our world.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Nyte Angel]

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Nyte Angel]

reply to post by Nyte Angel


Wrong. Saying that there is no way to beat the government is just another example of their control.

The government doesn't make the decisions, the people make the decisions. The government just influences their choices. You are told that the Iraq war is for your best interest, so you support the war. You're told not to contradict the government, not to fight, or go against them, so you choose not to.

But even the government lies. There is no silver lining.

You've seen it happen. You see it happen everyday. In elections, during presidential addresses. They lie to you to gain your trust, gaining control. It wants to be your friend, so when it asks you to do something, you will.

What your suggesting is that the government would kill everyone in its nation that rebelled. If it did, it would cause more anarchy then the actual rebellion. They would be forced to comply to what the rebels said, thus, gaining a responsible government. Though of course, the rebels demands would be influenced by the government. Letting them have their control again.

Remember the last sentence of my first post...

Ideas are bulletproof.

[edit on (11/12/0707 by Hexidecimal]

What make you think I believe in a government? Hell, if it was my choice I would let everyone run free, considering everyone turned to saints and all sins were dismissed. Thats the thing, your always going to have just the one person out there trying to make a difference, aka being an attention wh*re (like kelsey lol). Guy Fawkes was just like that, he tried to make him self noticed by making a difference. Fawkes was a criminal, is all I have to say.

Once agan, the response is so negative. Rape. Remember these thoughts are in your head. They are your responses to no government. Immediately without government people are raping, stealing, hurting and chaos. Seriously, is this really what society would be without government? Or is it possible this is what we have been programmed to believe? Without government, it would be the local 6 o'clock news all day everyday. And since we need the government to protect us from all the international enemies, then without government we would have the 6:30 World news all day everyday.

I have no intention of raping, stealing or hurting anyone. A government didnt make that decision, I did. I dont need a government to tell me what's right and wrong. I dont need to be protected from these things, and no one needs to be protected against me. Am I rare? No. I believe most people wouldn't all the sudden change who they are and what they are because there were no government. Laws are enforced within communities by people in their communities. Stronger communities reduces these crimes and eliminates the need for a government to protect us from each other.

We are contiously bombarded with images of people robbing, raping, killing, ... each other. Work place violence, school shootings, drunk driving, ID theft, ... This is the news. This is what's going on. People against people. In actuality, this represent a small percentage of human beings.

reply to post by Nyte Angel

Your posts up to know have made it quite obvious you believe in a government.
You are contradicting yourself.

This is why we have a government

The government is obviously still going to use firepower as a political defense. All I have to say about this is that were in an age where no matter what we try and do, you cant find a way to beat the government.

Like I've said before, we need a government to keep our world on the right track.

9-11 was something that the GOVERNMENT of the US could not control. If your so called "Perfect" world existed, there would be no world. We need a government to keep ourselves in order.

I believe you have completely missed the point of this topic. The point of this topic isn't about losing government. It is about changing the control they are using. Its not about someone, (Such as Guy Fawkes), Sticking out in a crowd, trying to get attention. It's about the idea that he brought. I think you need to re-read my first post.

So now, I'd like to hear everyones thoughts on their control.

Your opinions on it, what you think could be done about it, what you think should be said.

And what November 5th, 1605, and the attempted bombing of the houses of parliament means to you.

Originally posted by BPI
I have no intention of raping, stealing or hurting anyone. A government didnt make that decision, I did. I dont need a government to tell me what's right and wrong. I dont need to be protected from these things, and no one needs to be protected against me.

You may not be, but do you expect everyone to be the same as you? If you do, man you better climb out of you hole cause your missing a lot. And what makes you so sure that if we didn't have a government, the world would run so smoothly?

And also, why are you so fast on answering that if we had no government, world would be at complete peace? There is always going to have to be someone who is always trying to be noticed, be different. Just like hmm who I wonder... O ya, Guy Fawkes.

[edit on 12-11-2007 by Nyte Angel]

I didnt realize believing people could coexist put me in hole but okay. My point wasnt to say that no government equals smooth and complete peace. My point was to challenge the idea that we "need" government because somehow we are helpless without it. I think we are being programmed to believe this and this is one form of control the government uses on us. Somehow some people equate no government = people acting in the worst possible way imaginable against each other.

Government needs to know its place and its limits. Its the idea that "We need the government or else it would be unimaginable" to me represents a problem. I think real change in this country has to start with a mindset change. Too many people just accept "Thats just the way it is." I think Guy Fawkes represents someone who didnt accept that notion, and took it to the extreme. Had he suceeded, I'm pretty sure people wouldn't have celebrated by raping and stealing from each other. But who knows, I could be wrong.

reply to post by BPI


What I said, I didn't mean as a threat or put down or anything, I meant it as... I don't know how I meant it. But I do have to agree with you on what your saying, Guy Fawkes did try to make a difference. Maybe if more people did try to do the same, just at not such drastic measures, it could be quite plausible.

Now I'm not suddenly agreeing with you, we still need a government. But it would be nice if they just cut us some slack. Right now I'm happy how I am right here, sitting at my laptop not having a care in the world. I just don't see why some people have to make it so much harder by being ignorant.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
Osama Bin Laden is a good example, he is a mass killer/maniac guy. He is constantly rebelling against government. Is this the kind of "Perfect" world you would like?

So the options are: A world full of government or a world full of Bin Ladens. You really believe this crap? "If you do, man you better climb out of you hole cause your missing a lot."

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
There would be no one to say, "Hey, don't steal that!".

Yes there would. I would say it. The Police/Government has NEVER stopped anyone from stealing anything of mine, nor has it ever caught anyone after the fact.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
How would you like a world overrun by Osama Bin Ladens?

Wake up my friend. If the government disappeared the world would not suddenly be "overrun by Bin Ladens". In fact, some people believe that the government breeds terrorism. Expand your horizons.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
Saying we don't need a government is like saying we don't need food and water, both playing a big tole in our lives.

Now the government is on par with food and water? It's really sad to see that people rely on the government so much. You need to learn how to rely on yourself more, not think of the government as your parent/guardian.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
....who would be there to say something like " don't rape my ..." or " please don't hurt me!!".

Once again I will be!! I don't need nor want the government to protect me. I can do that perfectly fine myself. It is unlikely they would stop a rape/hurting anyway, but they may find out who did it afterwards.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
why are you so fast on answering that if we had no government, world would be at complete peace?

Complete peace is a bit much to ask isn't it? Do we have complete peace now? No? Then why would you expect it if we were to rid the world of the governments? Isn't any improvement on now worth it? Does it really take complete peace to be worth it?

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
your always going to have just the one person out there trying to make a difference

That should be revered, not discouraged. Is is individual people who make differences that are beneficial to the many, at the expense of the few. Not the opposite of that, as the system seems today.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
Right now I'm happy how I am right here, sitting at my laptop not having a care in the world.

No care in the world? Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?! Say that to the people dying in wars now by the hands of the same people whose crimes you are quite happy to turn a blind eye to because it suits.

Originally posted by Nyte Angel
I just don't see why some people have to make it so much harder by being ignorant.

Perhaps you are the ignorant one, blissfully ignorant as the case may be.


And finally, your signature....

Nyte Angels Signature
The powerful prevail, while the weak hide in grimy corners...

I don't intend this to be a personal attack but do you realise that with your attitude you would be one of the grimy ones.....?

reply to post by GobbledokTChipeater


Yes I do find my self as one the the weak grimy ones. But that is only because I live in hte time I do now. And you to are one of those grimy ones in the corner, just like everyone else in this damned world. The only ones that are powerful are the ones dont believe in technology. The powerful ones are DEAD.