Magma pushing up ground in Yellowstone

Would Forida be wiped out if Yellowstone erupts?

I seen a documentary on the Discovery Channel that didn't give a clear explaination as to whether Florida would be wiped out.

reply to post by MagicaRose


The only areas to be "wiped out" would be immediately around Yellowstone. Say within a couple hundred miles. However it would affect the whole world over time, and a large portion of the US would be affected within days of the eruption. Weather patterns would plot out which areas would get hit first.

Originally posted by Oldnslo

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV


My only quibble is the idea that the world relies on the Amercian plains for food. Most of the prairie is, as far as I know, pastural, not agricultural, land. South East Asia produces more rice than it needs. Australia produces more wheat than it needs. When it comes to production, the US is actully one of the least efficient, turning land and resources over to intensive "feed lot" practices which create large amounts of product for a singular customer, fast food, but at a higher input to output than "free-ranging". Healthy for neither people nor the environment.

As croplands go, the prairies are not the world's breadbasket.

Pardon me, but you do not have a clue.

You're excused.

The U.S. is a net exporter of corn, soybeans, and wheat, to the world,

Yes. We've already examined all of that.

We are currently producing ethanol from corn grown in the mid-west, and 3rd world countries are already whining that we will not be exporting as much corn as their increasing populations will need.

Sorry, no. The debate is about the fact that the "green" and "renewable" lobby is selling a bill of goods to the third world by encouraging them to plant rape seed etc instead of crops. Brazil gets a chunk of its bio fuel from the bottom of France's wine barrels.

They say that we are selfish by ignoring the staving people of the world, by using our corn to run our automobiles.

No. They say you are selfish by forcing the 3rd world to remove agricultural subsidies and tarrifs while maintaining yours. Then, if they take you up on this rape seed and palm oil idea, they will be forced to purchase food from you, instead of growing it themselves.

So maybe the best thing we can do is to stop exporting all food staples, and keep it all for ourselves.

Well, you could do better than using USAID money to buy US-grown rice. How about using that foreign aid money to support foreign subsistence farmers in need of aid?

We're so darn inefficient, anyways.

Pretty much, yes. Massive waster of resources.

The world doesn't need us.

It doesn't need your consumption.

We should be ashamed of what our farmers are doing to, and for, this country.

Yes. You should be.

Heck, if the Yellowstone caldera blows, we can just move our lil ole farming operation up to Canada. What difference does it make, prairie is prairie isn't it?

Really, I thought it was sometimes called steppe, oh well, looks like you learn something new and different everyday. Might want to check with the Canucks first, before you move in.

Only one very small problem to overcome. The 70-90 day growing season is such that no corn or soy beans can be grown. Their only crops are small grains and their total production is insignificant compared to the world demand.

Yes. So?

The effects of a large explosion of the Yellowstone caldera would most likely cause a world wide decrease in food production leading to mass starvation to much of the population of this planet.

Yes. But not because the Amercian prairie stopped producing. Which was my original point: See bold, then read my posts again. The effects would be felt worldwide because ALL productive agricultural land worldwide would suffer from temperature drops due to the ash cloud. If the US' farmers stopped planting tomorrow, the US would starve to death. The rest of the world could still eat. Europe's protected overproduction could fill any foreign gap (maybe you should check out French agricultural policy)and combined with Australian production and SEAsian rice could even feed some of you, too. However, trade doesn't work that way.

Your comments about the prairie, American farmers, and their methods, has no basis in reality. Utter nonsense.

Except that we've already looked at the crops. Enjoy your hay, do you? How about some figures to prove your "nonsense"?...

Originally posted by esecallum
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

 

I never said simultaneously drill 200.

No. I did.

You can drill one at a time.

Obviously urgency isn't a factor, then.

the bean can analogy is accurate.

No. It isn't. A bean can is a regular shape.

Even if the can is at high pressure then drilling very small smooth edged holes will start to relieve the pressure.The holes must be very small in relation to the can size to prevent rupture.

Yes. But as we've seen, a bean can is a regular, known shape and size. Vulcanololgy is not an exact science.

Yellowstone ALREADY has numerous natural leaks.

Really, got photos of hot lava flows?

a oil pipeline hole will be very very small in relation to the Yellowstone caldera size.

Yes. Very small. The analogy that jumps to mind involves camels and needles.

Yellowstone already has numerous small leaks

Again, no, it does not. If it did, you would have photos or video of hot lava flows in Yellowstone.

which are NOT sufficient to stabilize the pressure

Because they are NOT VOLCANIC LEAKS. Just so we're on the same page here, you do know that there is a huge difference between geysers and volcanic vents, don't you?

WE SIMPLY NEED TO AUGMENT THESE BY DRILLING 100 TO 200 holes.

No. You have to drill 100 to 200 vent holes which currently don't exist.

Try this analogy: The magma chamber is the firebox of the stove, the geysers (Old Faithful and co) are the steam valves on the pressure cooker sitting on top of that stove. What you are proposing is to put a chimney in to the fire-box to allow the gas to escape. So...

do you understand now?

And where the hell did I say anything about 4 decades?

I dare say you have said in 1965 Hey! if we could have landed on the Moon we would have done it 40 years ago.

I daresay you know nothing abut me. If it can be assumed I would have the same personality growing up post-WW2 that I do now, then I would have been cheering NASA on. Because I would have knowledge of the V2 and the Bell X1 and I would know that (here it comes, finally) it took only 4 decades to get from Wilbur and Orville to Yeager.

lava flows

In many different ways and many different forms.

and it is quite simple to direct into molds

Ever seen the protective gear vulcanologists who work on hot lava flow wear?

as it cools very slowly....

So, how much room are your moulds going to take up if we have to sit around for days waiting for the houses to cool before we can ship them to the world's homeless?

The Icelanders when their volcano erupted simply sprayed cold sea water to form channels MILES long to direct the lave into the sea.

Yes. Tommy Lee Jones used the LAFD...

so you can actually easily steer it to form troughs,self made rivers..environmental shaping...possibilitie are endless.

Say, Does Yellowstone happen to have a nearby supply of sub-Arctic seawater?

ALSO THE LAVA IS MIXED WITH HOT GAS so flowing lava is not a problem.

Hot, TOXIC gasses. So, no problem if your employment practices come from the Canadian Pacific Railway's construction.

I think you are simply jealous of the idea because you lacked the audacity to put it forward yourself

Audacity, yes, that's one word you could use. You see, audacity, like Aloha, has more than one meaning.

or maybe you want the USA to be destroyed so that you can start from year zero like in the Mad Max movies.

I love how posters here are able to extrapolate whole personalities and intentions from just a few words. But, seeing as I used to live even further north than where Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome was filmed, I personally wouldn't have that much of an issue with being forced to endure there. Except for the Ventolin supply.

The world has advanced by bold people with big ideas.Not by old farts sitting on committee meetings saying it can't be done.

Yes and some of those bold people jumped of the Eifell Tower wearing Bat-wings.

On February 4 in 1912 a Austrian tailor Franz Reichelt jumped of 60 meters from the first deck of Eiffel tower with is own made parachute. Reinchelt fell to his death.

en.wikipedia.org...

In the words of a great American philospher "Stupid is as Stupid does."

A few deluded people have the notion that if we start again from year zero it will be a better world .It won't.

Yes. You see, even if you only go by trial and error, then we already have all the evidence we need.

en.wikipedia.org...

And seeing as I am currently living there and reporting on the arrests and soon to be trial of Duch, Nuon Chea, Khieu Samphan, Ieng Sary and Khieu Thirith, I know just a little more about it than you do.

Now, ignoring your mind-reading and other fantasies, the fact is that you don't know how a geyser works and if you did you would stop accusing others of ignorance.

Geysers do not release pressure from magma chambers.
There are no "leaks" in Yellowstone.

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
would'nt there be SOME WAY to drill into this mess and let it do some seeping to the surface?

[edit on 9-11-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

You see I read that and I get a mental picture of someone deciding to move a reservoir in to another valley - this person scratches his head wondering how such a feat could be accomplished.... Bingo!!, 5 minutes later he returns with a drinking straw - armed with a gob full of water he proudly marches of to deposit the first instalment of his magnificent project

I'm thinking you guys had better start revering sizemologists as gods - personally I'm safe from the immediate eruptions (of which I consider to be a when and not an If) cos of the Atlantic. But if it goes tomorrow you can probably kiss goodbye to many overseas operations cos it's gonna be all hands to the pumps.

The real death toll is likely to be the ash I think -

1stly that's basically cement... and your lungs have more than enough moisture to turn people into walking cement mixers,

2ndly same goes for engines - car, aircraft any thing that doesn't have the air intake properly modified, and even then your engine has to breath, all your filters will be constantly clogging and require maintaining.

3rdly - Thinking about waiting it out indoors?? Think you got your survival rations?? Well how strong is your roof? You see buildings collapse in snow storms cos of the weight of snow (bit less than a metric tonne for every cubic metre - compacted snow)... Okay well that's just water, this light fluffy ash all over the place is fine ROCK!! chances are pumas mostly - depending on how compacted this becomes on your roof (but of rain should help) you could be looking at anything from 2 - 5 tonnes per cubic meter

And what about the clean up?? this stuff is gonna be in waterways changing the courses ruining drainage for years.

It would be a night mare with out end for many - even say 100 miles away.

Really hope this one doesn't play out in any of your life times.

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Howelrunner again your objections are fatuous and spurious without real substance.

I never said anything about jumping from the Eiffel tower wearing batwings.
I think you are using this to boost your own ego by quoting irrelevant events.

You objection about ROOM needed to cool the moulded houses is absurd.

You just leave them OUT in the open air to cool down and rock is a good insulator with 2 or 3 feet thick walls as houses to live in.Most houses are made from bricks which is similar to rock.

Your ignorance is astonishing.Do you live in a tent?

Your objection about toxic gases is a joke.Have you heard about chemical industries where they have to deal with and process vast amounts of hot, toxic gases everyday?

Your objection about dealing with hot lava shows your ignorance again.

Heard of the metal industry or the steel industry which processes vast amounts of very hot liquid metal every day?

You seem to be ignorant of existing engineering processes and self limited by your lack of imagination.

Yellowstone is leaking hot gases through porous rocks as already measured by vulcanologists and micro fissures augmenting this to reduce the pressure as explained above using oil pipeline holes can be done as long as we don't have nay sayers like you to coming up with spurious and made up objections as you have done above.

You admitted the geysers are steam valves.I say the oil pipeline holes are additional steam valves to relieve the pressure.

To me it seems the real reason is you are just jealous of my idea and if you want me to say in public I got the idea from you then that is fine by me.

I don't care about getting the credit for the idea.

You can have it all.

I don't want to go back to the bad old days like some delusional fools thinking it was better.

With a world covered in ash and the sunlight blocked out,people starving,and I hate neds,mad max types,meatheads,savagery,junkies,criminals,lowlifes and all the other trash that is generated from dystopia.

As I answered every objection in my original thread I think YOU secretly want the USA to be destroyed.You admitted as much in your post how it won't make much difference to YOU.

I can only wonder what homeland security will think of you.


[edit on 11-1-2008 by esecallum]

[edit on 11-1-2008 by esecallum]

Originally posted by esecallum
You objection about ROOM needed to cool the moulded houses is absurd.

You already stated, I think, that Lava takes a long time to cool down. Or is it that once they are in your moulds (which somehow are going to deal with many cubic miles of lava) they will cool that significantly quicker?

You just leave them OUT in the open air to cool down and rock is a good insulator with 2 or 3 feet thick walls as houses to live in.Most houses are made from bricks which is similar to rock.

And other, more insulating materials as well. However, just bricks on their own aren't as good. Also, if rock was as good as you are saying it is, why don't we all live in rock houses now in the way you suggest?

Your objection about toxic gases is a joke.Have you heard about chemical industries where they have to deal with and process vast amounts of hot, toxic gases everyday?
Heard of the metal industry or the steel industry which processes vast amounts of very hot liquid metal every day?

And how many of those industries do both at the same time, not to mention in the steel industry they can easily control how much steel is molten at any one time.

Yellowstone is leaking hot gases through porous rocks as already measured by vulcanologists and micro fissures augmenting this to reduce the pressure as explained above using oil pipeline holes can be done as long as we don't have nay sayers like you to coming up with spurious and made up objections as you have done above.

And they don't reduce the pressure anywhere near enough, if they did there would be no possibility of eruption.

You admitted the geysers are steam valves.I say the oil pipeline holes are additional steam valves to relieve the pressure.

Geysers don't release pressure, they are simply put superheated steam that erupts every now and then, they aren't releasing any pressure in the volcano.

As the geyser fills, the water at the top of the column cools off, but because of the narrowness of the channel, convective cooling of the water in the reservoir is impossible. The cooler water above presses down on the hotter water beneath, not unlike the lid of a pressure cooker, allowing the water in the reservoir to become superheated, i.e. to remain liquid at temperatures well above the boiling point.

Ultimately, the temperatures near the bottom of the geyser rise to a point where boiling begins; steam bubbles rise to the top of the column. As they burst through the geyser's vent, some water overflows or splashes out, reducing the weight of the column and thus the pressure on the water underneath. With this release of pressure, the superheated water flashes into steam, boiling violently throughout the column. The resulting froth of expanding steam and hot water then sprays out of the geyser hole.
WIKI

To me it seems the real reason is you are just jealous of my idea and if you want me to say in public I got the idea from you then that is fine by me.

Yes, you'd like to see someone else ridiculed for it. Why don't you send your idea to the YVO and see what can be done?

Conveniently, they already have:

Can you release some of the pressure at Yellowstone by drilling into the volcano?

Scientists agree that drilling into a volcano would be of questionable usefulness. Notwithstanding the enormous expense and technological difficulties in drilling through hot, mushy rock, drilling is unlikely to have much effect. At near magmatic temperatures and pressures, any hole would rapidly become sealed by minerals crystallizing from the natural fluids that are present at those depths.
YVO

With a world covered in ash and the sunlight blocked out,people starving,and I hate neds,mad max types, meatheads, savagery, junkies, criminals, lowlifes and all the other trash that is generated from dystopia.

As I answered every objection in my original thread I think YOU secretly want the USA to be destroyed.

Seriously, it's nature, and it's cruel. If you don't like the idea that the earth can kill you in thousands of different ways, get off it.

Oh and if you don't believe the YVO, who could you possibly believe.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by apex]

It's a two for one deal! See, now it's my turn to shoot your ideas down in flames.

Originally posted by esecallum
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

 

Howelrunner again your objections are fatuous and spurious without real substance.

Really? Well let's see then...

I never said anything about jumping from the Eiffel tower wearing batwings.
I think you are using this to boost your own ego by quoting irrelevant events.

No, just showing what some of those bold men you were talking about do...

You objection about ROOM needed to cool the moulded houses is absurd.

Uh huh. How much lava are you intending to deal with? Tried crunching any numbers on these ideas of yours? ANY numbers?

You just leave them OUT in the open air to cool down and rock is a good insulator with 2 or 3 feet thick walls as houses to live in.Most houses are made from bricks which is similar to rock.

Hey, hey, hey. Numbers at last. Let's examine them. 2 or 3 feet. So, 60 - 90cm. So each wall will be between 0.5 and 1.0 metres thick. How much floorspace were you thinking of putting in your Lavahouse? How were planning on transporting these Lavahouses with walls a metre thick? How high would these houses be? Are you planning on moulding them whole or pre-fabbing? Do you know the difference?

If you are pre-fabbing then you need to decide if your moulds will be vertical or horizontal. For ease of manufacture allow me to suggest horizontal. Now, if your pre-fab walls are 2m by 6m by 0.6m then you need a 1m space all around it for your workers to safely move. So, that's a minimum of 3m by 7m for each single wall panel. How many wall panels for a house? How many houses are you moulding? How much space will that require? Starting to get a clue here?

Your ignorance is astonishing.Do you live in a tent?

You've never actually built a house, have you? Or had a job that required calculations?

Your objection about toxic gases is a joke.

Do you know anything about Occupational Health and Safety? How about Workcover laws? No joke there.

Have you heard about chemical industries where they have to deal with and process vast amounts of hot, toxic gases everyday?

Yes. Have you ever examined the legislation that governs that industry? Ever seen the safety precautions? The safety training? The insurance premiums? Ever asked how much the workers are paid? No joke there, either.

Your objection about dealing with hot lava shows your ignorance again.

Do tell. As yet you have provided no proof of your own observations, let alone experience.

Heard of the metal industry or the steel industry which processes vast amounts of very hot liquid metal every day?

Vast amounts of hot, liquid metal in very limited supply and very small forms. The hot, liquid metal isn't boiling out of the ground in a continuous stream 24 hours a day and being poured into forms that are several metres in area and up to a metre thick and all of it being done out in the open.

Which doesn't change the fact that foundry workers don't wear full-body heatsuits. Vulcanologists often do. So, you were planning on cooling the lava, somehow, were you? BEFORE you started pouring it into those moulds...

You seem to be ignorant of existing engineering processes and self limited by your lack of imagination.

See, I've built houses. Poured concrete. Welded and cut steel and even spent some time assisting in a forge, thanks to a childhood in the country. I know whereof I speak. I've built brick, wood and mudbrick houses. I've repaired windmills and water pumps, worked with alternative technologies. What have you done?

Yellowstone is leaking hot gases through porous rocks as already measured by vulcanologists and micro fissures augmenting this to reduce the pressure as explained above using oil pipeline holes can be done as long as we don't have nay sayers like you to coming up with spurious and made up objections as you have done above.

Really? The ONLY thing preventing the USGS or National Parks Service from drilling these holes is naysayers like me with spurious objections? What's your doctoral thesis on?

You admitted the geysers are steam valves.I say the oil pipeline holes are additional steam valves to relieve the pressure.

I didn't admit anything. I was attempting to educate you, because you were wrong. Now you are being deliberately ignorant. That steam is NOT coming from the magma chamber. It is GROUND WATER. Idiot. There is no connection between the magma chamber and the water. Your oil pipeline holes are not in addition to those steam vents, because THER ARE NO STEAM VENTS FROM THE MAGMA CHAMBER

And you say my objections are spurious. Your knowledge of geysers is not only spurious, it's nonexistant.

Getting a clue about how this stuff works, yet?

To me it seems the real reason is you are just jealous of my idea and if you want me to say in public I got the idea from you then that is fine by me.

Jealous? Where, oh, where did you get the idea that I would be in any way jealous of your intellectual capabilities?

I don't care about getting the credit for the idea.

If it was my idea I'd be real happy about credit going elsewhere, too.

You can have it all.

Pass. No, really, PASS!

I don't want to go back to the bad old days like some delusional fools thinking it was better.

Now who's delusional. Where did you get this idea that I am anti-progress? I mean, I'm communicating (or attempting to) over the internet, for cryin' out loud.

With a world covered in ash and the sunlight blocked out,people starving,and I hate neds,mad max types,meatheads,savagery,junkies,criminals,lowlifes and all the other trash that is generated from dystopia.

That's okay, maybe Bert Gummer will have a spare mattress for you at his place. It's in Perfection, NV.

As I answered every objection in my original thread I think YOU secretly want the USA to be destroyed.You admitted as much in your post how it won't make much difference to YOU.

If this is how you answered them then that explains a lot. Such as why a poster would use the word "shredded" in relation to your every idea.

I can only wonder what homeland security will think of you.

I really couldn't give a flying firetruck what Homeland Security think of me. I'm not a US citizen and I have no desire to live in the US. Between that and the fact that I have never threatened the US, Homeland Security can kiss my hairy Aussie arse.

You have no clue about geysers and how they work. You have no clue about lava and its properties. You have no clue about rock and it's properties. You have no clue about how houses are insulated. You have no clue about the chemical industry. You have no clue about the steel industry.

To properly insulate a brick house you need three things: 1. Brick wall. 2. tin foil. 3. Insulation bats. Bricks are perfect heat conductors. They pass the heat of the sun straight into the house (Wonderful in Summer) and the heat from the fireplace straight out of the house (Comfortable in Winter).

To properly insulate a brick wall you need two brick walls with a cavity in between them and exterior ground floor and roof-level vents (this allows for convection flow, look that word up). Then inside the second brick wall you need to place your tin foil and then your insulation bats AND THEN your gyprock plasterboard wall. NOW your house is insulated and will keep the heat out in Summer and the heat in in Winter.

I'd say the flow of that caldera will be thought of as only moderate compared to the ever flowing, devastating outbursts of EartWatcher

reply to post by HowlrunnerIV


Again both of you are wrong.

Houses are made from rock known as bricks and have low conductivity.

What is rock anyway? look it up.

You don't need 2 walls if the walls are 3 feet thick.

Insulation is not an issue in 3 feet thick wall.What about all the existing houses without gaps in the walls?


See? you have been found out again.

Your assertion that the steel industry deals in small limited amounts of molten steel is false.

How do they make those giant skyscrapers with steel girders and what about all those gigantic ships and cruise liners and giant oil sea rigs made from vast amounts of steel?

You seem to suffer from small town thinking.

If lava is coming from the ground 24/7 you use VALVES to control the flow...Have you heard of valves?

You claim you need a doctoral thesis to put forward new idea.This is another falsehood.Very few inventors had a doctoral thesis.You are being elitest and narrow minded again.

Do you really think a bunch of old "it can't be done" type farts on a committee were responsible for the great advances?Look at Nasa,run by committee they are actually going backwards by replacing the shuttle with old Saturn type rockets now!


America was built by free thinkers and people with bold vision and purpose.

In 300 years America came from zero to super power by hard work and bold driving vision.

We turned an empty wasteland to a super power in only 300 years!

Nothing can stop an American.


The industry already molds very complex shapes,so why can't they mold houses which are a lot less complex shapewise.

Heard of computers and C.A.D?

You seem to come with spurious objections indicating some kind of mental brakes which cannot be released.

I dare say you would have made similar objections when the first wheel was invented.

By drilling holes about 1 to 1.5 miles deep a mixture of hot gas and liquid rock can be released slowly from Yellowstone and carefully under full control.By doing this 100 to 200 times we can control volcano's.

The energy from the liquid rock via heat exchanger can generate electricity.
They already do this in geothermal stations which pump water/liquid deep which turns to super hot steam to drive turbines.

I think you are simply anti-American as I can remember you Aussie's denying refueling to our bombers flying to bomb irak during the gulf war.

We were safeguarding oil and stopping terrorists for you folk and you denied us refueling permission.

Do you realize you Aussies's will be starving too as the ash clouds spreads and that Australia is largely desert and that America feeds you by exporting grain to you?

America is the leader of the free world and protects freedom,democracy and liberty.

Our navy has 15 aircraft carriers battlegroups and 3 protect your area for free.

A little gratitude is due from you I think.

Without America to protect you,you will be invaded by your communist enemies China,Japan, and Russia.Even the Filipines could invade you.Remember that.







[edit on 13-1-2008 by esecallum]

Originally posted by esecallum
reply to post by HowlrunnerIV

 

Again both of you are wrong.

Really. Do tell...

Houses are made from rock known as bricks and have low conductivity.

Wrong. Houses are mde from 3-dimensional fired clay oblongs known as bricks. Strike One. Houses have high conductivity. Strike Two.

What is rock anyway? look it up.

Well sedimentary rock is mud that has been crushed by millions of years of weight sitting on it and compacted into a solid mass.

You don't need 2 walls if the walls are 3 feet thick.

Not for strength, no. We're talking about heat-keeping properties.

Insulation is not an issue in 3 feet thick wall.What about all the existing houses without gaps in the walls?

After three days in the sun they become like ovens because tose three-foot thick walls are radiating the heat they have soaked up over the last three days. Ever lived in a house with metre-thick brick or rock walls? I have.

See? you have been found out again.

Strike three and you're out. See? That's three times you've been wrong because you haven't been there and done it and I have.

Your assertion that the steel industry deals in small limited amounts of molten steel is false.

Once again, do tell. Your "assertions" are absolutely fascinating, if not downright stupefying.

How do they make those giant skyscrapers with steel girders and what about all those gigantic ships and cruise liners and giant oil sea rigs made from vast amounts of steel?

They weld small pieces of steel together. In the old days, such as the Empire State, they used hot rivets. There's a documentary. You should watch it.

You seem to suffer from small town thinking.

Better than either ignorance or stupidity. Both of which, on your behalf, are deliberate. How many times can you be proven wrong before you admit your ideas and theories are erroneous?

If lava is coming from the ground 24/7 you use VALVES to control the flow...Have you heard of valves?

Of what will they be constructed, genius, these valves that must regulate the flow of magma? Which materials will withstand the temperature and pressure of the magma?

You claim you need a doctoral thesis to put forward new idea.This is another falsehood.Very few inventors had a doctoral thesis.You are being elitest and narrow minded again.

1) I did nothing of the kind. 2) Exactly (ref: 1). 3) Once upon a time. 4) Says you. My comment was to your experience, training/study or knowledge. You have consistently proven you have none of all three.

Do you really think a bunch of old "it can't be done" type farts on a committee were responsible for the great advances?

Quick, time to obfuscate again. "I don't actually know anything, so I'll cover by hurling accusations at others."

Look at Nasa,run by committee they are actually going backwards by replacing the shuttle with old Saturn type rockets now!

Know anything about the shuttle? W says NASA should head for Mars. The best thinking at the moment is a two-stage trip. Stage One: fly me to the moon. Stage Two: Destination Mars. You do know that the shuttle is incapable of reaching the moon, right? Using its current technology, the National Aeronautic and Space Administration cannot recreate the events of Apollo 11.

America was built by free thinkers and people with bold vision and purpose.

The modern world was invented by a bunch of Scotsmen working with English funds. Do learn something about the Industrial Revolution before you spray your ignorance around.

In 300 years America came from zero to super power by hard work and bold driving vision.

Americaa became a superpower in 10 years by virtue of never being bombed in WW2. America (that is, the bit that is now the US) was begun by a bunch of religious zealots. If Texas had not had oil, how powerful do you think the US would be now?

We turned an empty wasteland to a super power in only 300 years!

Really? Wasteland, huh? I'm sure the Sioux, Cheyanne, Pawnee, Ute and co would be interested to hear your description. What, exactly, was it before its previous owners "wasted" it? And, please enlighten us as to the massive cataclysm that turned it into an empty wasteland...

Nothing can stop an American.

(No, not even reality, it would seem.)

Pure drivel. I don't think I'll be replying to you again. This last statement proves you are a wilfully ignorant 12 year old.

The industry already molds very complex shapes,so why can't they mold houses which are a lot less complex shapewise.

Which industry, genius?

Heard of computers and C.A.D?

No, you see I dictate my posts by tin can and fishing line to a mate in the states. He then types them up for me...

CAD, you mean Computer Aided Design? Wow, what's that? How, exactly is that going to assist me in dealing with intensely hot magma?

You seem to come with spurious objections indicating some kind of mental brakes which cannot be released.

As opposed to pure flights of fantasy that are based on a solid bedrock of misunderstanding? It isn't ideas your lacking, it's a basic grasp of physics. But don't worry, when you get to high school you'll have classes in it.

I dare say you would have made similar objections when the first wheel was invented.

More of what you'd daresay. We all thought you would be smart enough to give the daring a rest after your last attempt was held up so you could examine it in close-up detail. I daresay you'd better stop trying to hide behind pathetic insults and actually do a little research into vulcanology (not to mention all the other "industries" you keep talking about) before you do yourself irreparable self-embarrassment.

Drilling holes about 1 to 1.5 miles deep a mixture of hot gas and liquid rock can be released slowly from Yellowstone and carefully under full control.By doing this 100 to 200 times we can control volcano's.

You say. Again and again, without bothering to examine any of the science underlying your "bold solution".

The energy from the liquid rock via heat exchanger can generate electricity.

Know how that process works, do you? Or is it just something you heard your dad talking about once?

They already do this in geothermal stations which pump water/liquid deep which turns to super hot steam to drive turbines.

No? Really? Well, maybe you should research it a little more closely and find out what the heat source is...

I think you are simply anti-American as I can remember you Aussie's denying refueling to our bombers flying to bomb irak during the gulf war.

A pity, then, that our troops were driving into the Iraqi desert in their Land Rovers. A pity that the RAN clearance divers were making the Al Faw watrway and Um Qasr port safe for traffic. A pity that HMAS ANZAC was giving NGS to the Brits.

For your information Australian deployment to Iraq in 2003 was as follows

22 ASAS, supported by
4RAR (Cmdo)
RAN - 3 ships inc. HMAS ANZAC, HMAS Kanimbla (RAN senior officer commanded Multinational Interdiction Force in Persian Gulf) + CDs.
75 Sqn RAAF (F/A-18) + 2 P3 Orions and 3 C130 Hercules

We were safeguarding oil and stopping terrorists for you folk and you denied us refueling permission.

We were preventing the smuggling of oil from Iraq and you were under our command.

Do you realize you Aussies's will be starving too as the ash clouds spreads and that Australia is largely desert and that America feeds you by exporting grain to you?

Oh. My. God. You've finally gotten around to the actual realities of the situation. Australia is largely desert, you say? I didn't know that. I mean, I only lived there for four years (that would be the bit where I was referring to Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, remember that?) You feed us? Um, no. No, you don't. Australia is a wheat exporter.

America is the leader of the free world and protects freedom,democracy and liberty.

Right. How much protecting are you doing in Timor Leste or the Solomon Islands at the moment?

Our navy has 15 aircraft carriers battlegroups and 3 protect your area for free.

Free? FREE? You really don't know squat about how the world works, do you? We have to BUY our aircraft off you. Buy our tanks off you. If we terminate your lease on Pine Gap, how will your CBGs talk to each other?

A little gratitude is due from you I think.

We went and bled in Vietnam for you. We gave you a base to operate against the Japanse from. We stopped them in New Guinea for you when Macarthur lost the Philippines. We stopped the Chinese at Kapyong. Time you learned your history.

Without America to protect you,you will be invaded by your communist enemies China,Japan, and Russia.Even the Filipines could invade you.Remember that.

Now I'm going to quote my Dad. "And how will they get here? In their rice paper boats?"

The Philippines? Ooh, I'm shaking in my boots, I am. What is their naval strength? What is their air force? What is their amphibious capability when operating outside their own national borders?

Japan? Sorry, wrong. We stopped them before you did. Kokoda, google it. We gave Japan their first defeat in battle on land in WW2. Milne Bay, google that. We also, just for good measure, gave the Germans their first defeat in battle on land as well. Tobruk, google that one. And that one was against Rommel.

When you reach high school, let us know

Posts like the one above are one of the few things that keep me coming back to this place.

Hi There,

For the sake of possibly repeating what may already have been stated, the real issue with the caldera at Yellowstone is not whether it will erupt, for someday it will, but for how long it will continue to erupt and eject material into the atmosphere. It is the length of the eruption and the amount of material ejected that determines the global effects.

The idea of drilling bore holes down through the earth to alleviate pressure in some way, is not very practical or workable, and certainly not safe. The immense pressures are simply too colossal, and would overwhelm any such undertaking. The pressures far exceed anything encountered during oil-exploration, and so, although the idea may seem enterprising, it is in reality, way beyond our ability to implement...the scale is just too large.

OT...

Why is so often that "debaters" think they need to disprove the opponents views rather than proving their own? Should be clear who I am adressing here...

reply to post by elysiumfire


Now that apex and Howlrunner have both been defeated I urge you to visit this url.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This explains slowly and carefully how we can stop Yellowstone from exploding.

Every single question is answered.

I urge all patriotic Americans to UNITE and start this project to save America.

I want you to contact Bush/Blair and the CIA and NSA and Homeland Security and Bill Gates and other billionaires as they have the most to lose if Yellowstone explodes.

I want you to contact FoxNews and get them to back you as Foxnews is the most patriotic and loyal channel.


Don't believe the naysayers,remember they secretly want America to be destroyed due to the delusion,so they can come to power.

Remember if Yellowstone explodes the terrorists will have won as we will be unable to respond.

Living in caves for the rest of eternity is a terrible thing.



[edit on 15-1-2008 by esecallum]

reply to post by flice


Now, I said I wasn't replying to ese any more and I'm not.

I'm replying to you instead and by doing so proving how mature I am by indulging in a little, "well you can tell him that..."

Perhaps the above post explains to you why I have gone point by point. Yes, I'll admit that it does appear that I am staking my reputation/life/eternal soul on this issue and therefore HAVE to be right and he HAS to be wrong. The only reason I brought my personal experience into this was that despite repeatedly being proven incorrect, ese continued to propound untruths and falsehoods. I thought, obviously rather foolishly, that the weight of experience might convince him to reconsider. I was wrong.

As we see here:

Now that apex and Howlrunner have both been defeated...

Where, I ask anyone not ese, were apex or I "defeated"?

As for this:

I urge all patriotic Americans to UNITE and start this project to save America.

I quote myself again: pure drivel.

I want you to contact Bush/Blair

Why? Will Blair unlock some JP Morgan money for this scheme? Why would patriotic Americans appeal to the former PM of the UK?

and the CIA

Limited by law to operating OUTSIDE the US.

NSA

I guess they could listen really hard to the eruption.

and Homeland Security

They could do with a win, after Katrina

and Bill Gates and other billionaires as they have the most to lose if Yellowstone explodes.

Why? They're big into agriculture, are they?

I want you to contact FoxNews and get them to back you as Foxnews is the most patriotic and loyal channel.

I change my profile estimate.

esecallum isn't a harmless 12 years old boy. Nor is he a crank.

He's a troll.

Originally posted by esecallum
Now that apex and Howlrunner have both been defeated I urge you to visit this url.

Yes, defeated. In what way exactly? You haven't posted anything that hasn't been throughly debunked.

This explains slowly and carefully how we can stop Yellowstone from exploding.
Every single question is answered.

Answered by a nonsense answer yes. Answered by a thorough consideration of actual science no.

I want you to contact Bush/Blair and the CIA and NSA and Homeland Security and Bill Gates and other billionaires as they have the most to lose if Yellowstone explodes.

In case you haven't noticed, Blair stopped being PM some time ago. And they don't have the most to lose. The people near it have the most to lose, they'll be the ones killed.

Remember if Yellowstone explodes the terrorists will have won as we will be unable to respond.

Hereby Nature is also a terrorist, and must be ruthlessly hunted down and killed.

Living in caves for the rest of eternity is a terrible thing.

Humanity survived one Super Eruption already, and that was before we had much technology. Just think how well we should be able to do it this time.

Originally posted by flice
OT...

Why is so often that "debaters" think they need to disprove the opponents views rather than proving their own? Should be clear who I am adressing here...

You are right Howlrunner/apex seems to be obsessed with finding spurious excuses.

Look they claimed you cannot have a high temperature valve...which is total baloney...how do they manage to control the flow of liquid iron in foundrys?

or coolant in nuclear fission reactors....or gas flow in space shuttle engines?

More small town thinking.

A high temperature valve can easily be made simply by letting the pipeline stick out of the ground and with the top end sealed and a hole in the side which will have a cone shaped steel rod partially inserted...the amount of insertion controlling the flow rate of the molten rock.....the cone shaped insert rod operated by hydraulics or electric motors...

trivial engineering issues....


Here is an another example of their attempts to sabotage the taming of Yellowstone...

When I mentioned Bill Gates or billionaires supporting the defusing of Yellowstone they say Bill Gates don't have agricultural land...when any half wit knows that the money markets and stock markets will crash and burn if Yellowstone erupts and even billionaires don't want to breath ash filled air and live in a dump with all the infrastructure in ruins.


Once again I urge all Americans to UNITE and start the process of defusing Yellowstone.

Don't let the luddites stop us.



[edit on 15-1-2008 by esecallum]

Originally posted by esecallum
Look they claimed you cannot have a high temperature valve...which is total baloney...how do they manage to control the flow of liquid iron in foundrys?

or coolant in nuclear fission reactors..

No idea, but normally It tends to be something like pouring it, rather than having a pipe with the iron always in it, than using a valve.

Now coolant in a nuclear reactor. I think some use molten sodium, but IIRC thats about 500 degrees C cooler than most lava, and considerably less viscous than it too. Not to mention, if the valves etc fail in a reactor, the control rods can be used to shut it down. Whereas if the valves in your system fail, there is no second line of system to hold the lava back.

..or gas flow in space shuttle engines?

The gas is ignited after the valves, since they do it when the fuels are separate rather than when they are together, since normally when they are together they tend to explode somewhat.

A high temperature valve can easily be made simply by letting the pipeline stick out of the ground and with the top end sealed and a hole in the side which will have a cone shaped steel rod partially inserted...the amount of insertion controlling the flow rate of the molten rock.....the cone shaped insert rod operated by hydraulics or electric motors...

Ignoring however, the large pressures of the erupting lava. Even if we assume you're dealing with a volcano in Iceland, lava can be fountained there into the region of hundreds of metres, do you really think your valve could withstand that.

When I mentioned Bill Gates or billionaires supporting the defusing of Yellowstone they say Bill Gates don't have agricultural land...when any half wit knows that the money markets and stock markets will crash and burn if Yellowstone erupts and even billionaires don't want to breath ash filled air and live in a dump with all the infrastructure in ruins.

Awww, poor billionaires, they'll lose their money. While the millions who would be affected by the eruption who presumably won't be evacuated, because your plan is so great, will die if anything goes wrong.

trivial engineering issues....

So, whats your engineering/volcanology degree then, if it's so trivial?


[edit on 15-1-2008 by apex]

reply to post by apex


I think the word you were looking for is "ladle", you know, like what you use for serving soup...

In a foundry, molten metal is poured into molds. Pouring can be accomplished with gravity, or it may be assisted with a vacuum or pressurized gas. Many modern foundries use robots or automatic pouring machines for pouring molten metal. Traditionally, molds were poured by hand using ladles.

en.wikipedia.org...

The real point is that foundries produce only the steel/copper/zinc/alloy they need for a job, ie a very limited amount, and it is not self-pressurised. Nor is it itself a heat source.

What ese keeps trying to tell us is that Yellowstone's unlimited magma supply which will rise to the surface under its own pressure is the same as a carefully calculated volume of hot metal that is poured through gravity-feed. The exact opposite of the Yellowstone situation.