The fool says in his heart "there is no God"

Put yourself in the situation... as a picture in the eye, the sun would seemingly stop.

I will count flowing water in the air as a canopy of water. A few particles? Look online for fast motion video of clouds moving, from above... it is whitewater, massive rivers in the air. There is truly a canopy of water above us. Watch the film, koyaanisqatsi for evidence if you cannot find any. It's at movie rental places.

I have consulted a jewish friend, there is no seperate word for sphere in hebrew. They use the same word to denote a 2-d form as they do a 3-d form.

I meant I'm going to study the original hebrew scripture concerning celestial matters.

reply to post by depth om


but the bible isn't supposed to be the word of an observer, is it? i thought it's the inerrant word of god...

alright on the hebrew... still, doesn't seem like they had any indication that the earth is anything but flat in the bible...

and a canopy... it's not a canopy. it's like saying "here's an umbrella" and handing a frame of an umbrella with a little bit of cloth strapped over it.

Truths instilled in men by God, thus of God, word of God, I believe it is the word of God.

Water still stretches over the earth, to me, I know what is being spoken of.

One idea of mine is a super-atmosphere in the early days before the flood, existed and protected, prolonged mans life by shielding harmful rays, caused things to grow by mist as is said in the Bible... I believe there was a fuller canopy above us. Then perhaps, it fell..

Originally posted by depth om
One idea of mine is a super-atmosphere in the early days before the flood, existed and protected, prolonged mans life by shielding harmful rays, caused things to grow by mist as is said in the Bible... I believe there was a fuller canopy above us. Then perhaps, it fell..

yeah, that's complete speculation. you have nothing to back it up...
and "pre-flood" doesn't exist, as there was no "flood"
if there was, there would be evidence for it.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul



LoL! Thank you once again madness for being the epitome of my arguments. And for the billionth (boy once you get an idea in that little head you just DON'T let go do you, I don't think I need to expand upon this thought further though you can guess where it is going) as I was say billionth TIME, I am not a christian, just because I disagree with you don't mean I agree with them. Sorry the world isn't black and white, and your just as delusional as you scream they are if you pretend it is so. Your just as bad as the whole democrat (liberal) versus republican (conservative) BS.

reply to post by WraothAscendant


i never called you a christian.. however, we were talking an an issue of the bible. so i told you to read your bible, as in a copy that you might own or find online.

anyway, the bible is riddled with factual inaccuracies, that was what we were discussing.

What do I see. People jumping off both sides of the fence with their eyes closed. Why do I see that. Because no matter which side of the fence you decide to jump over to, you still are just assuming its right.

The mere fact you say "There is evidence to support..." shows that you are assuming more than most. Those who say "there is no evidence to support god" are showing an equal assumption. They assume if there is no evidence, it isn't there.

People are in such a hurry to decide which side of the fence to be on. Why is that?

Edit: I should include this. If you jumped off the fence, to any side, you are a fool. A fool for assuming.

[edit on 25-11-2007 by grimreaper797]

reply to post by grimreaper797


reaper... no atheist says that a god isn't there... we say that there's no reason to acknowledge that said being exists.

no evidence to believe, so we don't believe
we're not making a statement on whether or not the thing exists.

there's a scale from 1-7, 1 being "i know there is a god" 7 being 'i know there isn't a god"

most atheists are 5s and 6s, saying "i don't think there's a reason to believe there's a god"

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by grimreaper797

 

reaper... no atheist says that a god isn't there... we say that there's no reason to acknowledge that said being exists.

no evidence to believe, so we don't believe
we're not making a statement on whether or not the thing exists.

there's a scale from 1-7, 1 being "i know there is a god" 7 being 'i know there isn't a god"

most atheists are 5s and 6s, saying "i don't think there's a reason to believe there's a god"

then you aren't an athiest, you are more of an agnostic. To be athiest is to say there is no god. I don't believe in religions, but as far as I can see, religion and god don't go hand in hand.

God can exist without religion, but religion can't exist without god. If I believed in god, I wouldn't be agnostic, now would I? If I didn't believe in god, I wouldn't be agnostic, would I?

saying there is no reason to believe in god, but I don't know, is the same as saying "well I don't know" and you are labeled agnostic, not athiest. I say logic does not permit a god or afterlife, but just the same, logic and reason is not infallible and I have no other proof of non existance, so I don't really know. Therefore, I am an agnostic.

I believe an athiest is jumping the gun when they say there is no god, and a person who believes in god is jumping the gun when they say there is a god.

As an agnostic, I don't know what god would want, if there was one, so I cannot live my life according to a god. So if there is no god, or if there is a god, my life goes unaffected. If you follow those same general lines, you aren't really an athiest.

Agnostic, which literally translates to "without knowledge" is where we stand on the issue of god, is it not? We agree we don't have solid evidence either way, correct?

reply to post by grimreaper797


there is no such thing as an "agnostic"
agnostic ____

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
there is no such thing as an "agnostic"
agnostic ____

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Keyword here madness YOUR bible. Considering I don't own one. Nor do I base my belief system ANYWHERE near what is in that atrousious (yep misspelled its late so shoot me) book.

Or I could have been taking your words literally. And by the way I have asked those that do read the bible alot and they say nuh uh on the Earth being flat thing.

Though once again hate to point this out (not). The idea that the Earth was flat predates christianity.

reply to post by grimreaper797


Grim trust me on this your wasting your time debating this one, unless your like me and find such annoying persuits perversely amusing that is.

But good point all the same.

in reply to post by grimreaper797

-there are atheist based religions, religion can exist without god.
-your claim that "to be a atheist is to say there is no god" is incorrect. scientists know that it is impossible to prove that god doesn't exist, this is well established, just like its impossible to know if there is a undetectable flying saucer out there window, yet they cant deny the possibility. these same scientists will claim to be atheist (some being as prominent as the godfathers of atheism) yet still acknowledging that god could exists. from your statement its saying that no scientists are really atheists?

[edit on 26/11/07 by cheeser]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Keyword here madness YOUR bible. Considering I don't own one. Nor do I base my belief system ANYWHERE near what is in that atrousious (yep misspelled its late so shoot me) book.

...wow, you're really looking into things. i would've also said "your koran" if we were talking on islam, regardless of your religion. anyone with an internet connection has access to both a bible and koran which means they do in a way own a copy of it.

Or I could have been taking your words literally. And by the way I have asked those that do read the bible alot and they say nuh uh on the Earth being flat thing.

then read it yourself... there's nothing showing that the bronze/iron age people that wrote it thought differently.

Though once again hate to point this out (not). The idea that the Earth was flat predates christianity.

obviously...
as does the idea that the world is round, oddly enough.
i'm just saying that the bible is contradictory to reality.

[edit on 11/26/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by blueIII
The fool says in his heart, “there is no God.” (David in Psalms (ch53))

Madnessinmysoul knows we have been here before...

A fool is in the context in the meaning " lack of understanding ".

As a son of a man, and a man of God, I testify that as a man, I have been spoken to by God.

I was a man who lacked understanding. Looking for that which I knew not.

I was approached by that which searches the hearts and minds of all mankind...

And I can tell you, that when it happens you will know it. Indeed like a thief in the night. With no announcement he comes...

Ever have a dream...and you know what you saw, but somehow you cant describe it? Its all right there in your minds eye...yet you lack the vocabulary to convey...

He comes...

In Voice...
In Visions...
In Dreams...

I started here..

Look and you shall see, seek and you shall find...knock and it shall be open....

Start by random acts of kindness, wherever you can. Wonder what good is? Practice Love one Another to its fullest extent without bias. Love meaning serving your fellow man whenever you can...When its not convenient. When it means you yourself may go without something you really didnt need anyway. Its looking at other people and putting yourself in their shoes.

The Drunk homeless guy. Sometimes that beer is their only comfort.
The guy that hits you up for gas money. The guy flying the sign at he exit. The homeless woman pushing the cart. Someone asking for bus money. The guy sleeping on the bench who you know isnt rolling in money. Open your eyes is all...see the world as one seeking to alleviate burden for those who need help.

Try to dematerialize yourself. The Lord is my shepard, I shall not want.

Walk alone. Speak aloud. Like your talking to the invisible man. Talk as though he walking with you...

He wont come to you with careful observation. When you least expect it..it happens. Could be in your sleep, could be while your awake.

When it happens to you, you will be disturbed...you wont know what to think. You will question your own sanity. You will wonder what just happened and question yourself. Just as though when you you drive away from your home, when you wonder if youve locked the front door.

What was that? Did I really hear that? What the heck? Whoa!! Youll be second guessing yourself for a long time. Believe in yourself.

Then you will understand. Your confidence will build. You move from Belief and Faith, to knowing that which you previousl had faith and belief in.

You will be happy. There will be relief. There will be frustration.

Your frustration will be in the excitement of conveying the revelation of your own experience when it does happen...and then realizing that people who have not experienced it, including fellow Christians, cannot grasp it.
There is no timeline. There will be no proof, other then your words.

To think of it another way, if Jesus Christ himself came and talked to you in your living room...who would you tell and expect them to believe you?
Would you even believe yourself?

You will pick up scripture, and you will study. Christ and the lord God will no longer be Faith. You realize that Christ is the only way. His way is truth, and his way is life. You read his teachings knowing that he is real. Knowing that this isnt a myth or a joke. Its for healing mankind. Its for mending. Its for Peace on Earth, Good will toward men.
Its how were supposed to be as people. Good people. Gods people.

You move from the sons and daughters of man, to the Sons and Daughters of God.

The writing of David isnt entirely accurate. For even he, that knows there is a God, lacks understanding. Its in thinking we understand everything about God, the we show we are fools...

Peace


[edit on 26-11-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
I was Christian at 13. So christian I carved crosses in my skateboard grip tape... The whole time, I just had this feeling of it being wrong, or unsubstantial enough for me to believe, but I kept on trucking... Finally at 14, I just couldn't take it anymore. As soon as I stopped pretending and went with what feeled right, it was like a weight lifting off my shoulder. It was amazing. That has to tell you something, when your intuition is pushing you out, and your family and some friends are the only ones saying "no, no, it's true, you'll see." To each their own. There's no swaying me. I know exactly where I stand and who I am. Sorry.

Right, when you were young, your rebellion was being christian and showing it since most kids think that is lame, dont do it, and thus you made yourself known to be different and also you were noticed.

I did the opposite, when I was young I saw all the good kids that dressed in the latest fads, all prepped out as if they were at a private school w/a dress code or something, and so I spiked my hair, bleached it, wore clothing that would contradict the preppy clothing. I didn't really believe in much, I was agnostic teetering on atheist for most of my teenage years. But religion never seemed like something to be rebellious with. But I can totally see how the young christian could have motives of trying to be different and special in the eyes of others etc. since all young people usually try to be different or "cool" , I know I tried to lol.

And despite my beliefs, any Cardinal in the Vatican, if they saw my daily life and the things that I do, the things I say, and all that goes with it, they'd consider me to be a hopelesly lost soul with a completely warped, infectious, and evil version of the Gospel that I was infecting others with it. Basically they'd see me as a tool of Satan. But isn't that how I see them? Isn't that how it always is ..

Originally posted by cheeser
in reply to post by grimreaper797

-there are atheist based religions, religion can exist without god.

What I mean is, you can still have god and not be a christian, but can you be a christian if there is no god? No. In order for those religions to exist, they need a god to exist. On the other side, do you need a religion to believe in god? No. God, as I see it, is apart from religion in this way.

-your claim that "to be a atheist is to say there is no god" is incorrect. scientists know that it is impossible to prove that god doesn't exist, this is well established, just like its impossible to know if there is a undetectable flying saucer out there window, yet they cant deny the possibility. these same scientists will claim to be atheist (some being as prominent as the godfathers of atheism) yet still acknowledging that god could exists. from your statement its saying that no scientists are really atheists?

atheist (someone who denies the existence of god)
wordnet.princeton.edu...

According to princeton, if they deny the existance of a god, they are atheist. If they say "It is impossibly to know" then they are agnostic. Just because people can't figure out the difference and don't know the definition of the word does not mean it changes the fact.

When I was uneducated I was accidently calling myself gnostic. Realized what that was, and quickly changed my mistake. There is no such thing as an atheist who acknowledges a god could exist.

Its like saying "Im a christian, but I believe in the possibility that a god might not exist." In which case, they really aren't a christian. They say they are, but if they were, they wouldn't be adding that "but" on the end.

When it comes to those scientists, saying "well there is no proof, but we can't say for sure either way because we don't know" is pretty much exactly what an agnostic is. If that is what they are saying, then no, they aren't an atheist.

Its like saying "Im a christian, but I believe in the possibility that a god might not exist." In which case, they really aren't a christian.

Okay, try this one. Im a christian, but I believe it is impossible to know if god exists.

You can have FAITH that God exists, but even I know its impossible to prove the existence in any reasonable way that would be acceptable to the masses as "fact". Except maybe until the last days.

Therefore I can still believe, while admitting that it is impossible to KNOW.

I can claim I know, but ultimately, it is my opinion no matter how much I hype my religious opinions up. It was never scientifically proven to me, but I believe any way. This is the way it has to be. You must be able to choose one or the other, the wide or the narrow, belief or non, freewill of choice.

God coming down to Earth and saying Hello in the physical form would remove the freewill from us, because how can I say "there is no God" when there IS a God, and he touched down in some weird place, and its on the news right now. And im watching him spontaneously create stuff out of thin air and cure cripples, live on MSNBC. I can still SAY theres no God, but that right there would be the scientific proof everyone always wants. So then, everyone deep down inside would know God exists, and the freewill to choose would be gone. Everyone would do the right thing, and the entire creation of the human being and the human race was one big pointless waste of time, the souls of which did not reach any significant enlightenment. shows over pull the plugs. since God is real, so is his fire and brimstone!

Humanity =

[edit on 11/27/2007 by runetang]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


excuse me... i'd like to know how you know what fool in this context means. are you getting it from your own understanding or the original word used?

...and how does one have a lack of understanding by saying there is no god?
i think one has plenty of understanding with that sentiment.

the fool hath said in his heart "i know this statement that has no evidence to support it is true" (this is using your definition of "fool")