Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America

Many thinkers believe that because American culture is so fragmented and diverse, and so often hostile to others who share the title of american citizen but have different roots, That is will simply disintegrate itself because of internal disagreements. It could possibly end up like some of the South american cultures that flourished and rose to dominance rapidly, then just as quickly faded to third world status.

Some keep mentioning the UN will intervene ....... I dont see how.

Most UN Missions are made up of western nations, ie NATO countries. True there are a few other nations that contribute forces to UN missions.

If you take the US out of the equation, there is really no-one left that has a large enough military to form a UN Force. If you think that European nations would intervene, then you really are in a world of fantasy.

Some may argue that Russia and China have the size of forces that could be appropriate for the mission. The trouble here is, that historically, they do not participate in UN missions.

For the UN to send in troops BTW the US has to invite them in.

reply to post by Northern Raider



Interesting. Sounds like the anthropological mosaic theory (often applied to countries such as Lebanon).

I suspect that all this talk of states re-affirming their 10th Amendment rights will ultimately end in just that... talk.

It's not even as if this re-affirmation carries any ultimatum. It'll stir up an odd handful trigger-happy patriots who'll get a slap-down from the authorities quicker than you can say Paul Revere.

The rest of the populace will have a look to see what else is on TV...

The UN have absolutely no interest in a nation that is totally bankrupt , has mega crime problems and a violent beligerant populace andf no one single dominant culture. through out the wonderful Americans brief history when ever there are major domestic problem they always seeks out a foreign body to blaim for the nations problems, Chinese, Koreans, Ruskies, Reds under the bed, hispanics, blacks ,immigrants, Brits, French etc etc ad infinitum. They use foreign conflicts to divert attention away from problems at home. But those excuses are now wearing very thin on the educated American people.
The US is like a Neutron star, massively powerful, super brilliant, has explosive growth but a very short life. where as the UK is more like a red giant sun just bubbling away quietly for epochs. I think the US will survive but definately not in its present form.

The muppets advocating seccession will lose and lose badly. The entire south tried to leave the union in a lawful and democratic way, but the wealthy powerful industrial north showed the world that the American manta of Freedom, Liberty, Democracy and Justice is a load of bollocks at best. Long term forcasts show Alaska becomning a very rich independant nation with its oil and environment keeeping it rich, Hawaii will probably go its own way. But the 48 lower states will slowly decline just like the russian states are doing.

Americans are truly great people but they are stuck in the " Traditional American Way" and dont want to change or adapt from the principles laid down by the chaps in 1776. The proplem is like all living entities you either evolve, adapt, change or become extinct. Good example is American cars and motorcycles, primative, under developed, huge great greedy dinosaurs, and look what happened to the dinosaurs.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Northern Raider]

I just don't think americans are that crazy.

Although. Is the U.S. on the Brink of Fascism?

Hold on. America Is Not on the Brink of Fascism, It’s at the Dawn of a Progressive Era

But wait a minute. I'm 99% sure America is being set up to look like Nazi Germany

We have the biggest debt
We have a hunger for war
We are the people that torture
We are the people that want to spread (fake)democracy
We are the people that are going to get 100% of the blame when 9-11 is exposed.

And most importantly... We are the country that is the most violent & most divided because of this media propaganda that wants to paint everything Right & Left and Black & White.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Has anyone read this book? Its written by Thomas W Chittum. Its a great read and highly informational but somewhat dated (written in 1997 with a revised edition in 2006).

It does go a bit into survival and ways to deal with a large scale armed conflict on American soil.

[edit on 6-11-2007 by ChrisF231]

It is so close right now that just about anything is going to set it off...

so i got the shelter stocked and gear cached all over this part of the state... and we can G.O.O.D. (Get Out Of Dodge) very quickly....

What a fascinating discussion!
This topic has interested me for a long while.

I have read so much about how the civil war will be fought and how to survive, but very little on what happens afterwards.

So similar to how we got into Iraq in the first place. A lot of discussion on the "war" part, but not enough discussion on what to do afterwards or even IF war is even a necessity. Everyone just assumes the civil war is coming.
What if the breakup happens peacefully?
We are mostly civilized people, anyway, capable of reasoned thought, right?
don't just assume people will just lapse into anarchy.
Even the old Soviet republics found a way to peacefully detach without rampant violence. don't tell me Soviets are way superior human beings to Americans.

those who assume all Americans would just grab their arms and start shooting each other have a rather poor, negative and dim view their fellow citizens (and themselves).


So my angle is not necessarily that civil war might happen. What might happen may be something like what happened with India and Pakistan.
Those who are clueless about what I am about to discuss are exactly the same uneducated louts who rattle the saber the most.
"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent".

India and Pakistan.
When they chose to divide India into two, the Hindu population started to migrate towards India and the Muslims moved into what would be known as Pakistan. Those who don't want to read can learn this bit of fascinating history by watching "Ghandi".

What may involve bloodshed is disputing HOW to divide the country AND the weapons around the country.

Any nation seceding from the United States certainly would be viewed as a newly formed government which the UN and especially NATO would almost certainly not allow to adopt or take existing weapons of the US such as, oh.... the nuclear missiles.

This is the point where there may be conflict in my eyes.

But a peaceful transition may be possible. Look at how the Soviet Union finally broke up. There was violence in small pockets, but not total civil war.
Russia kept ALL the nukes. So anyone wanting to secede from the United States better build their own nukes. And guess what will happen? The UN and NATO would certainly treat that new country like Iran or North Korea.

So say a new country was established.
We'll call the new country the Confederate states of America. Oh come on, you know that's exactly WHO wants to secede so let's be honest.
People still fly that flag, right?

The only question is: who will join this new regime?
And...
What is the platform of the new country?

If the platform is based on the Old Southern way, then you will see blacks, latinos and other ethnic minorities vanish from the Confederacy.
Sure, they'll have rules for admitting minorities in the interest of not looking racist, but they will definitely have rules about controlling the numbers who do get in.

so... a new country with a libertarian/right wing conservative mindset... christian... mostly white... (to preserve the culture, "heritage" or whatever convenient politically correct term there is). They will accept minorities only in small numbers...

So you got... Apartheid South Africa.

So you have the original US who accepts everyone (and by the soviet precedent, will keep the nukes), and the new confederate states who are majority right wing conservative Christian (and white, although they won't admit that).

So really, the choice is up to the people now.
Which one will you join?

reply to post by SaHasani1990


i was enjoying your post til you started talking about the sides.... :/ im white im christian and im from the south but i would not let them get rid off our minorities because we are all equal. anyways i think the sides will be maybe democrats vs republicans and the neither (like me) will have to choose or just pick up the pieces afterwards again thats a maybe

Maybe it's because I'm in Canada, and I haven't read the book, but it seems a civil war BASED ON RACE is utter BS.

I know the hispanic extremists LA RAZA and the Atzlan groups are there, the drug cartels too... and they are armed and crazy...

But come on now.

Americans as a whole wouldn't start a war based on race IMO.

A civil war between those who support government will vs those who support the constitution/no tyrannical government... that I can believe.

Anyone knows if an audiobook of this book exists? Thanks.

If there is another civil war/revolution, it will be fought out like Iraq.

Common men and women, even boys and girls taking up arms literally to defend their own back yards and immediate family.

Guerrilla warfare will have to be taken to a new level to avoid satellite, night-vision and thermal ground imagery. Rugged terrain and densely structured and populated areas will have to be employed to avoid rebels being detected, and they will have to fight in extremely small units or even as unorganized individuals for the same reason. They will have to blend in with everyday people.

Counter-propaganda should be heavily employed, and people made to remember what their forefathers had to go through to keep their country already.


Over-all it will be very messy and very devastating. But I believe it will come because "they" keep pushing us and don't know how to stop taking advantage of us and abusing us as a society. Until all of mankind is sovereign, every last man woman and child, we will not stop.

Originally posted by SaHasani1990
So say a new country was established.
We'll call the new country the Confederate states of America. Oh come on, you know that's exactly WHO wants to secede so let's be honest.
People still fly that flag, right?

The only question is: who will join this new regime?
And...
What is the platform of the new country?

The old Confederate states just have a history of being rebellious already, especially the ones that also participated in the first revolution. Today the atmosphere is different and citizens of most states that could manage it at all would probably favor sovereignty. Californians talk about it all the time, Vermont has had a strong secessionist presence for years, so have even Hawaii and Alaska. Colorado and Montana have passed laws that fly in the face of federal laws. Definitely not your traditional Southern rebel states.

And it would not be a "new regimes," it would be "new regimes" if you must use the word "regime" at all. State sovereignty means the State of Virginia is a country, like it used to be, an all the other original 13 colonies and Texas. They had a "confederation" which was a very loose bond for trading and economic purposes and all of that, but the states (countries) regulated it between themselves with each other.

Today it's more the "little men" standing up in state and local govs all across the nation trying to fend off the fed's influence with increasing public support. Only large urban areas with strong federal influence still embrace them politically, like New York or any large metropolitan area really. Those are the ones who are dependent on the system anyway, and need its infrastructure to survive.

If the platform is based on the Old Southern way, then you will see blacks, latinos and other ethnic minorities vanish from the Confederacy.
Sure, they'll have rules for admitting minorities in the interest of not looking racist, but they will definitely have rules about controlling the numbers who do get in.

You've got to be joking. More blacks live in the South than anywhere else in this country. They are just as big of an influence (if not a bigger influence) on Southern tradition as/than whites are. Even if Southern states did secede again (I don't think this would particularly help the average man today, though) you would definitely NOT have ANYTHING like this in the South today.

so... a new country with a libertarian/right wing conservative mindset... christian... mostly white... (to preserve the culture, "heritage" or whatever convenient politically correct term there is). They will accept minorities only in small numbers...

So you got... Apartheid South Africa.

Or the exact opposite. Check this out:

List of U.S. states by African-American population

1 Mississippi 1,092,588 37.18%
2 Louisiana 1,410,557 31.98%
3 Georgia 2,907,944 30.02%
4 Maryland 1,658,422 29.44%
5 South Carolina 1,275,815 28.48%
6 Alabama 1,229,787 26.38%
7 North Carolina 1,991,654 21.60%
8 Delaware 182,890 20.95%
9 Virginia 1,546,444 19.91%
10 New York 3,362,736 17.25%
11 Tennessee 1,042,811 16.78%
12 Florida 2,916,174 15.91%
13 Arkansas 450,037 15.76%
14 Illinois 1,919,701 14.88%
15 New Jersey 1,255,868 14.46%

en.wikipedia.org...

The worst of racism has came and went, and we're all still down here living together, so what does that tell you?


Ah and I bolded Maryland because they contributed full Confederate brigades during the war, and might've went rebel too if Lincoln hadn't cracked down on them with martial law. If Maryland had seceded too, Washington DC would have been completely surrounded by rebel territory and they couldn't have that.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by VirginiaRisesYetAgain]

I don't much like the idea of a civil war here very much but there are alot of signs that say it will happen.
The OP mentions large scale conflict, these are best avoided unless you have an overwhelming element of surprise, or much greater number of trained troops.
Otherwise bug out until you can pick 1 or 2 at a time.
And then only by surprise.
It is not fair but neither is war.