The pyramid pump.

Scott, I was wondering if you have read anything by Richard Noone? Spesificly "5/5/2000 ICE: the ultimate disaster". Personaly I think the book is grossly misnamed. At first I read it for a laugh. After the first 20 pages I was enthraled. Noone highlights much of the masonic world in relation to acient civilizations and in particular the great pyramid.

Just like the who geologists noticed the long term water erosion on the Sphinx and forced egyptolgists to admit that the Sphinx is older then originaly postulated, a man named Edward Kunkle, a hydraulic enginer by trade, noticed the inside structure of the great pyramid and saw a hydrualic ram pump of a superior design. Of course he could not get anyone to listin to him but he did build a few pumps based on the design of the inner structure of the great pyramid.

Perhaps you know a hydraulic engineer yourself that you could show the inner workings of the great pyramid to (With out the out line of the pyramid of course, lest you color his opinon).

It is an aspect of the pyramid mystery that I do not think should ignored. I mean what is more logical, 10 slaves building canals to float massive granite rocks into percision placment or 10,000 slaves useing ramps and logs to drag massive granite blocks? Archimedias was smart enough to figure out water displacement and rome was a very water based civilization. Ancient egypt may of had an even better understanding of the mechanics of water, air pressure, and gravity. The great pyramid certainly suggests as much.

That boat they found at the base wasn't there to ferry anyone. It is placed there as a mason might place a square and compase in a corner stone.

What are your thoughts?

reply to post by titorite

Hello Titorite,

Interesting new thread – thanks.

Scott, I was wondering if you have read anything by Richard Noone? Spesificly "5/5/2000 ICE: the ultimate disaster". Personaly I think the book is grossly misnamed. At first I read it for a laugh. After the first 20 pages I was enthraled. Noone highlights much of the masonic world in relation to acient civilizations and in particular the great pyramid.

SC: I have not read Noone’s work but I certainly agree that the book you mention is unfortunately titled. Here we are – almost 2008 – no ultimate disaster. As for masonic symbolism – I am not surprised. I have myself discovered much masonic symbolism related to the pyramids but also to geodesy.

Just like the who geologists noticed the long term water erosion on the Sphinx and forced egyptolgists to admit that the Sphinx is older then originaly postulated

SC: I think you are referring to the Dr Robert M. Schoch and John Anthony West. Certainly they have made a claim that the Sphinx is much older than Egyptologists presently accept but they are having a difficult time proving their case as this small extract from John Anthony West’s site will testify:

I am still looking for funding for our Geologists Panel. It is imperative to carry out this survey. Without it, the Sphinx theory, however valid and scientifically demonstrated, is heading towards academic limbo, misrepresented and marginalized by its opponents. A report by an independent panel of geologists with expertise in the various specialties involved is absolutely essential to provide the publicity and press to keep the battle alive. Without that, it could get buried.

SC: This is not say that Schoch and West are wrong. It is one thing ‘believing’ something to be correct – it’s a whole different ballgame proving it. There are possibilities certainly – but conclusive proof has not yet been achieved.

It is an aspect of the pyramid mystery that I do not think should ignored. I mean what is more logical, 10 slaves building canals to float massive granite rocks into percision placment or 10,000 slaves useing ramps and logs to drag massive granite blocks?

SC: I haven’t read the book so it is difficult really for me to comment but it seems to me that building a canal to float the blocks into place would be every bit as big an undertaking as constructing the pyramid itself! And they did this for EVERY pyramid? The latest theory of pyramid construction presents evidence that the lower courses (at Giza) were quarried but that the upper courses were cast.

www.youtube.com...

That boat they found at the base wasn't there to ferry anyone. It is placed there as a mason might place a square and compase in a corner stone.

SC: I have my own ideas for the Khufu boats which I will be discussing in a later thread.

Very best wishes,

Scott Cregihton

reply to post by titorite

Hello Titorite,

Interesting new thread – thanks.

Scott, I was wondering if you have read anything by Richard Noone? Spesificly "5/5/2000 ICE: the ultimate disaster". Personaly I think the book is grossly misnamed. At first I read it for a laugh. After the first 20 pages I was enthraled. Noone highlights much of the masonic world in relation to acient civilizations and in particular the great pyramid.

SC: I have not read Noone’s work but I certainly agree that the book you mention is unfortunately titled. Here we are – almost 2008 – no ultimate disaster. As for masonic symbolism – I am not surprised. I have myself discovered much masonic symbolism related to the pyramids but also to geodesy.

Just like the who geologists noticed the long term water erosion on the Sphinx and forced egyptolgists to admit that the Sphinx is older then originaly postulated

SC: I think you are referring to the Dr Robert M. Schoch and John Anthony West. Certainly they have made a claim that the Sphinx is much older than Egyptologists presently accept but they are having a difficult time proving their case as this small extract from John Anthony West’s site will testify:

I am still looking for funding for our Geologists Panel. It is imperative to carry out this survey. Without it, the Sphinx theory, however valid and scientifically demonstrated, is heading towards academic limbo, misrepresented and marginalized by its opponents. A report by an independent panel of geologists with expertise in the various specialties involved is absolutely essential to provide the publicity and press to keep the battle alive. Without that, it could get buried.

SC: This is not say that Schoch and West are wrong. It is one thing ‘believing’ something to be correct – it’s a whole different ballgame proving it. There are possibilities certainly – but conclusive proof has not yet been achieved.

It is an aspect of the pyramid mystery that I do not think should ignored. I mean what is more logical, 10 slaves building canals to float massive granite rocks into percision placment or 10,000 slaves useing ramps and logs to drag massive granite blocks?

SC: I haven’t read the book so it is difficult really for me to comment but it seems to me that building a canal to float the blocks into place would be every bit as big an undertaking as constructing the pyramid itself! And they did this for EVERY pyramid? The latest theory of pyramid construction presents evidence that the lower courses (at Giza) were quarried but that the upper courses were cast.

www.youtube.com...

That boat they found at the base wasn't there to ferry anyone. It is placed there as a mason might place a square and compase in a corner stone.

SC: I have my own ideas for the Khufu boats which I will be discussing in a later thread.

Very best wishes,

Scott Cregihton

Thanks for the swift reply Scott. The canal theory is actualy broken down something like this. A water resivor is created under the location of the Sphinx. This resivor is tapped to level the foundation of the plain upon which the Great pyramid was built upon. After the plain was leveled the first outer ring was built to hold the water. From there blocks could of been floated in by boat Via wooden canals. Blocks could then be floated into postion by barage and then set into place by lowering the water level.

The grand galley is a vacum bottle. The air shafts are discharge tubes. The King and Queens chambers air pressure chambers. Left operational and unchecked the Pyramid could pump enough water to make an ocean out of the Sahara desert. Theroticly the whole region was flooded, hence the long term water erosion of the Sphinxs' body. Most likely this was why the Nilometer at Elephantine was needed.

Who ever built the great pyramid were masters of utilizing water. Most likely this same civilization was responsible for such anomialies such as the "Bagdad battery" ,"The pharos lightbulb "and "the glider" amongest many more chronological out of place ancient artifacts. A civilization capable of this should have no trouble aligning the Great pyramid with the stars. As for the Rhyme of the reason? Well, I think the question can only be answered when the historians and master masons stop blocking scientific appraochs to understand the matter.

I think it is interesting to note the civilization of the mayan pyramid builders was water based and that masonic symbols can be found through out the entire Chichen-Itza complex. It suggests to me that at one point in humanities history (eons pre-summerian) mankind was of one civilization that was technologicaly advanced spanning the entire world. This civilization not only liked to build grand stone monuments and pyramids but it also liked to carve masonic symbolism all over its empire.

reply to post by titorite

Hello titorite,

titorite: After the plain was leveled the first outer ring was built to hold the water.

SC: The logic of this would require a circular wall (dam?) around the pyramid and eventually built up to at least the height of the pyramid. This would then require a construction project infinitely larger than the construction of the pyarmid itself.

I find the logic of this theory somewhat difficult to grasp.

A simpler 'aternative' method would have been this 'anti-gravity' device:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkAL1jTojY[/url

Best,

SC

Hi, Titorite and Scott. I'm new a this and practically computer illiterate, but this topic caught my eye. I have read EVERYTHING I can on the Great Pyramid and am the daughter of an MIT//CalTech grad who was an engineer. I am a Registered and artist, so have NO skills in math and cannot PROVE anything. But I do SEE things. The overview I have derived from my readings about the Pyramid in one book it states that it is a huge battery, that shone in the landscape with a great inner light. The "Arc of the Covenant" in the Old Testament seems to have dimensions that would "fit" into the interior of the Pyramid. Could the two be connected AND now with the theory you describe of a great Hydraulic pump at its center, you would have a source of water to connect all the linens that form the walls of the workings of the Arc of the Covenant. They don't know what the holes at the base of the walls of the Grand Gallery are for, I offer that they were used to hold carved logs which held up great panels of linens. They found natron in the underground passage of the Great Pyramid. That could have been dissolved in the water that was pumped in and used to close the circuit. I don't think the idea that it was a real tomb and ONLY a tomb is the explanation for its purpose. Several books describe the mystery of the erosion being water erosion, not wind, at the interior of the pyramid.

Anyway. I am just beginning to connect the dots. i hope my ideas stimulate someone else to do further research.
Hope someone will connect with me on this. I am enjoying my own ideas, but would enjoy getting some feedback. My husband just says "HUH?" and doesn't "get" my interest. I found this website by "googling" egypt hydraulic pyramid.
Thanks!
Linden 53

Hi Titorite and Scott!
I already introduced myself on this topic. But I just want to add that what Titorite is saying about the construction around the pyramid and how it could fit with my vision of the interior of the pyramid. You would need a source of power to work the pump, and the pyramid, with the interior workings like that of the Arc of the Covenant which I have heard described as a huge battery, would have plenty of power. I think Titorite has described a machine of enormous power, and it fits the world view at that time. All the findings fit the view that the pyramid is water proof, so to speak - I got the National Geographic latest DVD for Christmas which covered the search in the shafts leading from the King's Chamber or Queens' chamber and they are closed off with slabs carefully constructed to be air and water tight.
Even the boats to which you have referred were found in hermetically sealed vaults - air and water tight.
Why bother with all that water tight construction if water weren't present at enormous pressures and volume? And why are the pyramids shown to be water eroded - not wind eroded - on their exterior? There is one scientist who says the larger blocks are poured concrete and he gives valid reasons for his theory, including hieroglyphs that show workers pouring liquid into large boulder shaped moulds.

I think it is high time the pyramid theorists look at this evidence with fresh perspective. The stories people throw out based on unsubstantiated theories are tiresome and boring and without validity. They do not encompass the full breadth of knowledge that has been bubbling through the minds of people like Jacob Davidovits and others. I am tired of the so called "egyptologists" and "experts" like the Head of antiquities in Egypt who are ignoring all the fun and intriguing observations to be had.
Well, that is my frustration being expressed.

Go for the gold, literally. I am sure there is a wonderful story to tell for all time of the building and purpose of the pyramids - and how their presence still impacts our environment to this day in northern Africa and beyond.
Thanks for being out there. I feel less alone in my wonderful thoughts about the possibilities of explanations for the presence of such incredible monuments to human achievement.
Linden53

reply to post by linden53

Hello Linden,

Many thanks for your post. First of all I hope you have a happy, healthy and peaceful 2008.

There are many many theories concerning the pyramids, especially the Great Pyramids at Giza. And this, I think, is actually quite an important point. Many theorists tend to forget that there are around 100 pyramids in Egypt (most no more than rubble piles) and focus their ideas entirely on the Giza Pyramids, particularly the Great Pyramid of Khufu. Are ALL these pyramids in Egypt water pumps? If not, why not - what is THEIR purpose? I do not think Giza can be considered in isolation from the rest of Egypt or indeed the Great Pyramid at Giza can be considered in isolation from the other Giza structures. As far as I am concerned for any alternative theory concerning the pyramids of Egypt, it must be able explain the purpose of ALL the structures. Failing to do that can be considered 'cherry-picking'.

Linden53:Thanks for being out there. I feel less alone in my wonderful thoughts about the possibilities of explanations for the presence of such incredible monuments to human achievement.

It's really good to know that there are so many people out there with such great, enquiring minds - this is the most important thing of all. Keep it up.

Very best wishes,

Scott Creighton

Hi Scott and Titorite.
I "googled' "hyraulic pump pyramid" and have found other message boards with a few people like Stephen Mehler, John Cadman, Christopher Dunn and others who are enjoying their forays into the workings of hydraulic pumps in relation to the Pyramids.
I am an artist, with an art degree and I was force fed the so called " FACT that the Great Pyramid is a "tomb". But I am also the daughter of an engineer from MIT and Caltech and I balk at that explanation. Where are the wonderful frescoes and hieroglyphs depicting the afterlife in the corridors of the passages of the Great Pyramid? Everything is water eroded inside the Great Pyramid. The walls of the passages are polished granite or concrete mixtures. I believe from what I have read that there is a progression of knowledge from the smaller pyramids to the Great Pyramid. I don't have a clue WHO built them really. The Egyptians are proud of them, but did they really build them? I like the idea that in Biblical terms, Joseph managed the Pharoahs' abundance and Moses was brought up in Pharoahs' household. I wonder what else really happened with the intelligance of the Hebrews in Egypt? Just a question. There has always been a question as to who Imhotep really was. And there has always been a real connection between Jews and Egypt. (Even Jesus was taken there for safe keeping when Herod went looking for him!) Alexandria was a thriving Jewish settlement and the land to the east of the Giza plateau in the reign of Ramses was cultivated by the Hebrews. WHY did Moses want to leave Egypt SO badly when he did? And how on EARTH did he accumulate such wealth that he could build the Tabernacle out of nothing in the desert on the way to Canaan land? I surmise he stole all the materials as part of a plan to sabotage Egypt's water power plant! But what do I know? It's just FUN to have these thoughts after being stifled by so called "egyptologists" and "experts' and scholarly learning. I cannot identify with the process of learning by which you are totally stuck to one way of looking at history and the history of human endeavor on this wonderful Earth. I just cannot stop the flow of ideas I have. The more I learn, the more ideas just come to me.

Anyway. I don't know about the progression of building of the other smaller pyramids, but knowledge as to how to build them seems to have culminated with the building of the GREAT Pyramid! Maybe they learned from each effort. At what cost, I couldn't guess, really.
Just some thoughts.

Have FUN reading my stuff! If it doesn't matter to you, chuck it all. But I am enjoying sharing it on these new found websites. ALL of them.
Mrs. Leslie Van de Ven, RN ,BA (Linden53)

reply to post by linden53
[more
what if the great pyramid was the first built by a civilization more advanced than the egyptians for something greater than we can fathom. The egyptians may or may not have been there to witness it. The kings chamber said to have been built with rose quartz could have been for something beyond our wildest imagination. If something was witnessed by the egyptians the king would want to go where the builders went. The rest of the pyramids seem to be cheap knock offs

I agree with Anon. I recently learned about phyzio effect(SP) and how the kings chamber is built with rose quartz granite. And if the insides were built to water you could create AMAZING amounts of pressure to generate the electric effect...

Of course how would they of harnessed it? Another riddle yet to be solved.

Personally, I still believe the Great pyramid is the seat of Atlantis. So much of the legend fits that spot when one accepts the Great pyramid as a machine and not a tomb.

Maybe all the other pyramids came after, built by a differnt civilization
trying to copy what was already there, thinking maybe something
will happen if they build one. When nothing happened, they said,
hey, bury me in that.

reply to post by blindsilly

Hello Blindsilly,

Thank you for your post.

Blindsilly: Maybe all the other pyramids came after, built by a differnt civilization trying to copy what was already there,...

SC: You might be interested in the "Giza Adoption Theory" proposed by writer/researcher, Allan Alford, here:

www.eridu.co.uk...

Kind regards,

Scott Creighton

Scott and Others

I was wondering (although realise this aspect does not seem your focus) if you could comment on John Cadman's theory model?

The Great Pyramid’s Subterranean Chamber Hydraulic Pulse Generator and Water Pump

Apart from John's theory, the erosion of the main step at the top of the Grand Gallery (now repaired) screams of water erosion?

Also the system of antechamber seems to me to be easily configured into a self regulating pressure valve?

The "incomplete/ unusual design " combined flow analysis within sub terranean chamber seems purpose built "design is a product of function"

There is no way in my mind that AE's built GP as a kings tomb!

The water level at high flood of Nile nearly reached the GP and the "bottomless pit" or "well" is not far above the then current water table

Thanks in anticipation
Has2b

fascinating, gotta love this stuff. i read that book 5/5/2000 too. quite a while back but well after 2000.

that water pump theory is pretty wild. there's also theories about it being a nuclear reactor of sorts. the only thing missing is that it can toast bread.

reply to post by Has2b

Hello Has2b,

Many thanks for your post.

John Cadman's work is intriguing and well researched - there's no doubt about it. I think perhaps the difficulty he has is in explaining the other 109 or so other pyramids in Egypt that do not exhibit such features. What are we to make of them?

My own view is that the AE constructed the Great Pyramid as part of a multi-generational plan; a plan handed down to them from remote antiquity. They tell us in their own words that the architectural plans for their "temples" were not their own designs but that the plans came to them from the "heavens" at Saqqara in the days of Imhotep (3rd Dynasty) - from an inscription in the colonnade of the Temple of Horus at Edfu.

It seems to me that these architectural plans - if they were to be durable - were perhaps in the form of a granite model of some kind; something very durable that could be passed down the ages.

Obviously in time this plan would be seen as a sacred object especially so as it was somehow connected with ensuring the 'Afterlife'. Is it any wonder then that the Pharaohs initiated a plan to actually build their sacred artefact on the ground at Giza and ensure their own Afterlife by appropriating it as a burial chamber? The mortar from the GP has been C-14 dated to circa 2500BCE.

So, the Pharaoh's may well have constrcuted the Gizamids for their own religious and cultural reasons but missed the bigger picture being handed down to them from the originial designers of the "sacred plan".

As for the intended function the original designers had for this 'sacred plan' - who knows? I have posted my own ideas on this in this Forum which you can look at. Seems to me we are looking at a clock of some kind (water clock?) that is linked to the precessional half-cycle of Orion's Belt.

Best wishes,

Scott Creighton

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Amazing find Ive only just heard of it. I think its spot on.

Subchamber design



Erosion inside shafts.



www.great-pyramid-giza-pulse-pump.com...



I have a book by Christopher Dunn. Giza Power Plant. But he explains it as an electrical component and in that language. The pit tunnel was like a grounding terminal or something. Cant remember much of it so I will look through it again and post something. Water and energy all makes sense so they can both be right.

Book link

www.amazon.co.uk...

[edit on 5-11-2008 by Observer_X]

reply to post by Observer_X


Thank you for acknowledging it!

Truely fascinating and when I found it , I was compelled to email John who I regard with high esteem as this absolute "proof" model makes sense.

The cavitation (resultant separation of Hydrogen from Oxygen) created from the head pressure of such a large pump ought not be underestimated.

Fascinating that the corner lines of the descending passage are so true and precise! Also the ~30" square 53' (so far) "output line" could not be created by man with copper or even iron chisel to that accuracy.

Enjoy.

Whoever they were?... they were able to do some amazing calculations and it screams to me that they knew natural resources can be employed to create free running power. It is very easy to divert some part of the output back into the feeder "moat" and also elevate usable to any level of GP , then the waste return back to a natural river system. Virtually minimal moving parts.

Why did the most well built Pyramid suffer the most raping of outside shell blocks? I think valable copper & possibly gold was alligned near the outside possibly under the first layer..... which would create a giant!!!!!!!!!!.....Electrical capacitor!


I disagree with Chris Dunn valuable theory of the other components, but even John Cadman seems to subscribe to some of those theories.

reply to post by Scott Creighton



Thank you for your reply

The carbon dating of mortar does not elimiminate the possibility that AE's were renovators.

There are elements of most of the pyramids which could be configured to rudimentary pumps except for that i suspect what is later additions ( renovations)

I acknowledge your focus on the almost indisputable star alignment particularly at Giza but it does not make sense that a "race" that can carry out the massive calculations did so in some religious fervour whitout practical value!

The magnetic pole orientation they symbolism of virtually every aspect ... speak to a chemist about the layer height and relevance to the "elements' suggest to me much much more superior purpose and intellect than merely the after life.

Maybe these creators could travel to the "heavens"

I emplore you to think more seriously about the practical aspects of GP

Design is a product of function....no race that capable that achieved so much.. still astounds the modern world, did so with out that function being achieved! Their precision even gives me doubt about whether they needed "test runs/fails" but that is possible?

I have done my best as an amateur /curious to find adequate factual basis for accurate dating of these amazing artifacts and conclude so far... it is a guess at best!!!... based on very very flimsy basis or theory!

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Hello.

I caught this thread and thought maybe I could toss you guys an Idea.

I posted this idea Here

To sum up my thread. I believe that the pyramids worldwide are Noah's Ark. I give my reasons and data for this in the thread but this is the main one.

Gopher wood
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gopher wood or gopherwood is a term used once in the Bible, for the substance whose identity is unknown from which Noah's ark was built.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Question over identity
* 2 Fictional references
* 3 External links
* 4 References

[edit] Question over identity

Gen 6:14 states that Noah built the Ark of גפר (gofer, more commonly gopher) wood, a word not otherwise known in the Bible or in Hebrew. The Jewish Encyclopedia believes it was most likely a translation of the Babylonian "gushure i÷ erini" (cedar-beams), or the Assyrian "giparu" (reed).[1] The Greek Septuagint (3rd–1st centuries BC) translated it as xylon tetragonon, "squared timber".[2] Similarly, the Latin Vulgate (5th century AD) rendered it as lignis levigatis, "smoothed (possibly planed) wood".

Older English translations, including the King James Version (17th century), simply leave it untranslated. Many modern translations tend to favour cypress (although the word for "cypress" in Biblical Hebrew is brosh), following Adam Clarke, a Methodist theologian famous for his commentary on the Bible: Clarke cited the resemblance between Greek word for cypress, kuparisson and the Hebrew word gophar, although Greek and Hebrew are not related languages and the linguistic resemblance is superficial. Other suggestions include pine, cedar, fir, ebony, wicker, juniper, acacia, boxwood, slimed bulrushes and resinous wood, and even American trees such as Cladrastis kentuckea, or American yellowwood, although this type of gopherwood has no known relation to the material of Noah's Ark. Others, noting the physical similarity between the Hebrew letters g and k, suggest that the word may actually be kopher, the Hebrew word meaning "pitch"; thus kopher wood would be pitched wood. Recent suggestions have included a lamination process (to strengthen the Ark), or a now-lost type of tree, but there is no consensus.[3]

en.wikipedia.org...

snipurl.com...

What better design could withstand water pressure? So the pump thing might not be to far off. Perhaps they knew water displacement would float the pyramids or they used the pump idea to extract the flood waters?

also

Kopher is similar to Kepher which means "stone". I believe the translators did this on purpose to hide our true past and protect the rulling families.

In my studies I have discovered that the pyramid is a Volcano representation or BAAL CAIN. This would explain the mayan side for sure....Lord Paschcal Shield....Volcano.

It should stand right out (thanks to the Doors..."and our love become a funeral pyre".

Pyre = Fire, Mid = Mountain....FIRE MOUNTAIN = Pyramid




Peace

[edit on 7-11-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

[edit on 7-11-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]