Ufology Is Dead (Important read)

Originally posted by Solarskye

Just wanted to add that ufology became dead when people started making money off of it.

[edit on 11/5/2007 by Solarskye]

I think both this and the original post are bang on. I'd further add that as well as money, some people have sought to boost their own personal profile out of UFOlogy - on these boards as much as anywhere else.

The existence or otherwise of ET craft does not change the enormous amount we don't know about what is literally in our faces in the sky. When I look up, I'm looking for UFOs, sure, but even if they aren't there's enough mystery up there to keep me looking. It's not the same on a computer screen. In that way it's just like Internet Porn.

LW

Originally posted by arit_
Uhmm, You are so 90ies. Nowadays we automate it. I personally have a skywatching station that will look everynight all night and tell me if something moves. Welcome to the new millenium, my friend.

Best regards,


arit

That is extremely interesting. Can you tell us more about the actual setup you use? I am still in the dark ages it seems.

I 've always been facinated the the UFO phonomenon, especially its relationship modern culture. My grandmother was an ardent believer in UFO's and she always hoped one would show up to whisk her away from her mundane life.

My mother had a couple of strange experiences...although I have the deep suspicion that martinis & wine coolers might have played a role in her recollection of events.

I only had one experience that I cannot explain. I am confident that there is a terrestrial explanation for it....I just haven't figured it out yet.

I do however think that modern technology has made it impossible to believe any picture or video that has been offered as evidence or proof.
Eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. I won't believe it until one lands in my backyard and I see it with my own eyes.

reply to post by Disgustipated


For you to say that it's completely dead is untrue. Please don't speak on behalf of me because I am out there with my telescope and camera on any given clear night.

There is also nothing wrong with using Google Earth with a slim chance of finding a UFO, but I would not rely on it as a main tool.

I think with Video Cameras and Digital Photography that are in the mainstream today, we are actually seeing more and more UFO than ever, and people are posting their pictures on the net as well.

Originally posted by Osiris1953
reply to post by Ride The Spiral

 

On a side note, Disgustipated has a quote from a APC song, you have a quote from Tool, and here I am in between posts working on an Anime Music Video using Schism as the song. Anyone see a connection?

Heh. I really would like to hear Maynard's opinion on the Aliens & UFOs topic.

Tool - Rosetta Stoned
Tool - Faaip de Oiad
And now his other side-project's new album: Puscifer - Indigo Children

He definitely finds some inspiration in this.

Whether it's an embrace or a mockery of this on his part, I'm not sure.


[edit on 5-11-2007 by Comatose]

My thing has been to start a ufo website/blog, lindahoweishly, except to refuse all offers of visual evidence. No visuals at all, if you're a reader, good for you, This One Is All Words. Even if this person, Martin Heth, has been offered sensational proof of extra-terrestrial visitation, it will have been refused.
Inter-text correlations are far superior and massively more convincing - here's a point no-one has made - Jacqueline Susann wrote a book, published in the 1950s, called Yargo and she appears to be abducted by aliens.....who inform her our sun is a "seifert sun", and we will not be around for as long as we think we're going to be, for reasons of astronomical upheaval.
The sun visible every day as a difficult to look at object is maybe not a seifert sun, but the black hole nearest to us has recently been called a seifert sun.....anybody want to work on that one?
Yours, Martin Heth
writer of www.phonedupnshutup.com & surf.to/dangerousdave

This is my favorite topic because it modern ufology is critically wounded or a myriad of reasons. However, I am of the opinion that a large, organized effort in ufology is not impossible or even an impractical goal. However, there are problems with the movement that have impeded its growth and destroyed its credibility.

My solution to the problem is twofold: first is to insist on a self-imposed system of peer-review so that we can create a legitimate body of agreed-upon knowledge. The contention that there is little physical evidence is true, but there is a large body of credible, eyewitness testimony that needs to be cataloged. Furthermore, conclusions drawn by others must be based on factual bases. Too often we spend time talking about motivations when we still can't say that there is anything there yet. Further, we need to move away from the quasi-religious element that has sneaked into the community. Such claims are fundamentally unprovable and, if the goal is to prove something to an object observer, useless and unworkable.

Second, the community, as a whole, needs to be move savvy than it has been. We need to be working together with government and private entities on constructive partnerships. We spend most of our time antagonizing those groups. There is nothing that is more time wasting and fruitless.

This is naturally the beginning of a discussion on this. I am interested to hear what other people have to say.

I agree to a point, Disgustipated, and it's a sad state of affairs. But how are we defining "ufology" exactly, because I don't think it's completely dead.

Is ufology defined and populated by those who regularly take a little time out to look up, camera in hand and full of hopeful expectation, or by those who seek to make money out of UFOs and, ultimately, their believers? I ask because to me, based on all the wild, regurgitated stories and outlandish claims littering the net, we simply can't and shouldn't include your average, staunch and level headed UFO believer in the term ufology because the study of the phenomena has been overrun and tainted by new age claptrap, those after a quick buck, and the mentally derranged. I don't want to be included as a proponent of the study of this phenomena if it's irretrevably lost to that kind of supporter.

Personally, I take the time to watch the skies and I have done ever since I discovered my first UFO book. I accept the reality of unknown things in our atmosphere, yet have never seen anything anomalous, but that doesn't stop me believing those sane, normal folk who have. I've never seen Niagra Falls in the flesh (so to speak), but I think it's a pretty safe bet it's there. Every time I look up I know there's things moving above that we, being the man/woman in the street, have little to no idea about. Maybe, hopefully, somebody somewhere does.

Whenever the situation allows, I will introduce the subject of UFOs into everyday conversation. Doing this has lead to a revelation; it's surprising just how many people accept the existence of UFOs. Unfortunately, most asume that UFOs mean alien and not unknown ariel objects. Light in the sky equates to lil green, bug eyed monster.

Also, though a large proportion class UFOs as being the territory of the more recklessly enthusiastic, desperately needy members of society, thankfully many more are willing to allow the concept into their lives, and don't find it awkward or embarrasing. I've spoken to friends and acquaintances who are, amongst others, taxi drivers, builders, writers and ex military, and whilst I acknowledge those proffesions don't preclude the dillusional, I can assure you they are all, very down to earth guys. Each and every one didn't have a problem with the subject and found it fascinating. It's these folks, and the millions like them, who are keeping what used to be ufology afloat in it's purest form; simple, uncomplicated and unshakeable interest in a subject that affects us all.
They give me hope.

Not so the so-called "whistleblowers" who are seemingly more concerned with the percentages they're going to recieve from their latest book. Or DVD. Or tour.
Logically, if you are the bearer of smoking gun evidence, why not just do the right thing and go public with it? The money'll come afterwards, for goodness sake. There won't be enough hours in the day for all the speeches and appearances you'll be asked to do, and you'll go down in history as the person who revealed to the world that we do have neighbours.
But that'd be logical, wouldn't it?

Ufology is also struggling to survive the insiduous onslaught of self proclaimed mystics who are supposedly in contact with alien entities etc. Whilst I do not, and never would, deny the possibility of contact in this form, it just seems odd to me that intelligent alien life chooses to relay its messages through such odd channels. If Nelson Mandela or Steven Hawking said he had recieved a message, I'd be more inclined to believe...

Despite this, ufology, in its original form, is not entirely dead.

It has changed. And, I hope, for the better.

No multimillion bestselling ex rocket scientist author, or purple haired pendulmn wearing contactee will make me walk away from a subject I know to be truly important to us as a race. However I will walk away from them gladly, distancing myself as far as I can from their misguided, money driven circus, and remember what is driving us onward in the quest to solve what could be man's greatest question: are we alone?
And as I walk away I'll be looking up, camera in hand, knowing that there are countless other, normal folk doing the same.

Together, hopefully, we will one day see and capture that single, defining moment that'll justify our steadfastness and tenacity to maintain a community that refused to allow itself to disappear into a quagmire of commercialism and desperation.

This thread brings up a couple of conflicting thoughts for me.

First, to address the commercial aspect of Ufology, I don't see why people get so upset about it. Musicians make money off their music, painters off their paintings, physicists with their research and books - in fact, I can't think of a single discipline where the participants don't make money. It's how our economy is set up. If you want to get your message out to as many people as possible, it's going to cost money. If you want to dedicate your life fully to studying ufo's or the paranormal or whatever field you want to embrace, you'd better figure out a way to make a living.

That said, I do understand that there are folks out there taking advantage of earnest consumers eager to find answers by insisting on outrageous claims that they have no substantial evidence for; but that's the case in every and any field of research.

As for the sadness expressed by the OP, I don't think that people have stopped looking at the skies, I don't think that they've stopped filming them either, I just think that since the advent of digital media, it's way too easy for people to claim they've faked any footage that they get, so when they post images on websites like ATS, they're thrown to the CGI or Photoshop wolves.

After having participated in a few of the "is the truck blue or red" discussions on this site, I've come to a realization; I don't need proof, nor do I need to believe in UFOs or aliens. But it's fun to speculate and it's fun to look up and hope. And sometimes it's fun to try to debunk too. But the fact remains that I don't NEED to believe, I just like to (does this make sense to folks?).

So maybe ufology is dead, but who cares? It's kind of like the way religion should be - if it enriches your life and delights your soul, then it's good and true for you and that's special. But it doesn't mean that that truth is the same for everyone, and so maybe it should be kept privately, shared when asked for and never shoved down anyone's throat.

Smokers are the future of ufology.

The rest of us are inside.

To be honest, we are at a bump in the road that is disconcerting. We are:

1) Increasingly a sedentary indoor populous
2) Inundated with the new information pipelines coming into our homes

Right now, we are all becoming a new type of mass consumer, and not producing.

But all of that could change quickly in another 10 years.

For example, there is a future in which, conceivably, we could have COMPLETE sky coverage looking up over the United States, Great Britain, Europe, and other 'free' countries.

If digital camera tech continues to get cheaper, we might be able to drop the price on those full sky meteorite detector cameras down to the level of a simple science holiday gift. If that happened, we would have
1) A monitoring technology
2) Linked to our information grid

which combined would put UFOLOGY and observation of the sky in a whole new perspective.

So while we fight the entropy of human fabrications, perhaps there are things that can be done as we move from being consumers back to being its producers, with the right tech.

We need to shape the direction of collection. That is my projection.

[edit on 5-11-2007 by Ectoterrestrial]

Times change, and evolve.

I'm certain there are plenty of reasons "ufology" has somewhat dimmed from the spotlight...here's a couple of reason why I think this is the case.

1. Less "experts"
   
   In the 60's through the 80's there were people who's actual full-time job was the stufy of ufo's. I understand that today people still make money with it, but mostly through the amazon book store. In addition, some world-famous experts, for example, the famous Jaques Vallee, now even suggest alternative explanations for Ufo's: (I quote here from wikipedia):
   
   "Scientific opinion has generally followed public opinion in the belief that unidentified flying objects either do not exist (the "natural phenomena hypothesis") or, if they do, must represent evidence of a visitation by some advanced race of space travellers (the extraterrestrial hypothesis or "ETH"). It is the view of the author that research on UFOs need not be restricted to these two alternatives. On the contrary, the accumulated data base exhibits several patterns tending to indicate that UFOs are real, represent a previously unrecognized phenomenon, and that the facts do not support the common concept of "space visitors." Five specific arguments articulated here contradict the ETH:
   
   1- unexplained close encounters are far more numerous than required for any physical survey of the earth;
   2- the humanoid body structure of the alleged "aliens" is not likely to have originated on another planet and is not biologically adapted to space travel;
   3- the reported behavior in thousands of abduction reports contradicts the hypothesis of genetic or scientific experimentation on humans by an advanced race;
   4- the extension of the phenomenon throughout recorded human history demonstrates that UFOs are not a contemporary phenomenon; and
   5- the apparent ability of UFOs to manipulate space and time suggests radically different and richer alternatives."
   
   
2. SETI still unsuccessfull
   
   It's been on-going since the 60's and we haven't hit upon anything definitive...
   
   
3. US Military (F-117)
   
   Remember the first time you saw a F-117? You thought to yourself, aaah, yup I'm sure that accounted for a ufo report or two! Well, imagine those who saw it in the 80's...
   
   Here again I quote from wikipedia:
   
   The first flight of the F-117 was in 1979, only 31 months after the full-scale development decision. The first F-117A was delivered in 1982, operational capability was achieved in October 1983, and the last of 59 airplanes was delivered in the summer of 1990.[12] The Air Force denied the existence of the aircraft until 1988, when a grainy photograph was released to the public. In April 1990 two were flown into Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada arriving during the day and visible to a crowd of tens of thousands of spectators.
   
   

Consider the saturation of science and fiction - and science fiction together.

Generally today everyone believes something is hidden or covered up.

So you post a smoking gun photo - its not a smoking gun now is it? As most people say yeah so what - theres UFOs going around all the time, we have all seen the movies n read the books.

Also if the gun is smoking then who is in control of its manufacture, production, research and development?

Is it not that we are all truly now prepared, primed and spoon fed ready to be able to accept the biggest event FOX Live BReaking News will ever show.

With thousands yelling we told ya so - and thousands yelling back yeah we knew anyways

How many then will still question...... why are they here and now and who put them there !

Are we or have we been fed the hook and the line ?

How long till the sinker lands before our eyes live on TV ?

I would like to thank you for this thread.I used to sky watch,especially when I was camping.I'd be up until 4 a.m. sipping my beer and imagining what's out there.
One year I got a telescope as a present but it didn't have the proper tripod but I got good at finding Saturn,Jupiter and the Orion Nebula.
I recently was given a basic Celestron 4 1/2" telescope and I came across an old Canon T70.All I need now is a coupling device.I used to practice free hand with my digital camera and binoculars or telescope.Sounds silly but it worked for moon shots.
I'm interested in what's out there and Canadian winters are fantastic (but cold) for sky watching.
I may not find anything, yet I might. I'm drawn more to UFO's that could be farther out of eye's reach.
Once again,thanks for the reminder.

the only reason that you say ufology is dead is because what ive come to call the '' Trendy Conspiritorial '' folks are onto something not real , being a truther . But ufology i alive and well . if you know where to look

reply to post by Sparky63



Hey Sparky,

You can read all the details about my (modest) skywatching station and the reason for it's birth in here:

uplink.space.com...


Best rgeards,

arit

Here's a thought.

What if practically all UFOs (meaning alien crafts) in the sky today cloak themselves in the shape of a civilian aircraft, complete with blinking lights and whirring noises. They are however, non radar-reflective so as to not stir up trouble with air traffic controllers or provoking a military response.

They could do this to go wherever they want without anyone thinking twice.

Possibly?

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa

Moreover, the mainstream has long categorized "UFO research" as fringe science and will remain so.

I don't believe in spacecraft from other planets and I don't believe in Bigfoot and his relatives.

I will say this about those who research these matters.

There is no fringe science, except sloppy science and sloppy science isn't science.

If the people who study UFOs or Bigfeet do good quality, bias controlled research, then it's science.

I do believe that in the absence of evidence the field may be becoming dogmatic, but that's not science.

Science is science, regardless of the field of study and everyone, especially scientists and academics should understand and respect that.


[edit on 2007/11/5 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by Comatose


No I don't think it is a mockery. Whether he often contemplates it all and puts it in his songs, or actually believes it 100%, I have no idea. I have heard, however, that he has said that they won't be making music after 2012 because he thinks a comet is going to destroy civilization as we know it.

Anyhow, I'll have to read the posts I missed, and get back on topic in here shortly. Hopefully shortly anyhow.

I agree that it's over. As a teen in the 90s, with an interest in UFOs/Aliens, i caught the end of the whole thing. Just watching the sky normally observing the cosmos for life-even in the day scanning the skies- a few times it happened without a camera... thus I missed a few UFOs in question. Happened only when the cam wasn't working right or non present.

I think the larger problem is that any video or photo these days can be faked to look just as good as the real thing. Look at the effects we can do in cgi and holographics. Anyone with a computer and a little knowhow can fake a photo.

So all submissions can be seen with great doubt because of this fact.

The only burden of proof remains is physical evidence, a piece of alien tech or an alien themselves.

I still watch the skies, always with my camera ready.

I have only caught a few maybes in the years i have been trying, with no real UFO sightings, but at least it's a start.

The vast majority of people i know 'watch the skies', not particularly looking for UFO's, but even just to stargaze. In the winter months here in Australia, the night sky is that vivid it takes your breath away.