The US imprisons more of its population than any other country on the planet

The United States is home to almost 5 percent of the world's population, yet it holds 22 percent of the entire planets number of prisoners.

The latest official statistics available show that as of the middle of 2003, federal, state, and local facilities in America were holding 2,078,570 people.

If we add those on parole or probation, the figure jumps to 6.9 million.

For the last 30 years, the number of prisoners has increased annually. The incarcerated population in mid-2003 is a 2.9 percent rise over the prior year. Currently, one of every 75 men is in the clink.

Not only are the absolute numbers sky-high and ever-increasing, but the rate of imprisonment keeps climbing into higher nosebleed territory, too. In mid-2003, the US imprisoned 709 people out of every 100,000. A year and a half earlier, that figure was 686.

In its mammoth survey of imprisonment from 1974 to 2001, the Bureau of Justice Statistics concluded: "At yearend 2001, over 5.6 million U.S. adults had ever served time in State or Federal prison. If incarceration rates remain unchanged, 6.6 percent of U.S. residents born in 2001 will go to prison at some time during their lifetime."

These numbers are not only the highest among industrialized nations, they're the highest in the world. The British government's definitive study "World Prison Population List" (fourth edition, 2003) gives the following top five prison nations as of the start of 2002:
(I use these dates for apparent reasons)

- US: 686 inmates per 100,000 people
- Caymen Islands: 664 per...
- Russia: 638
- Belarus: 554
- Kazakhstan: 522

In Cuba, the rate is approx. 297. Meanwhile, in lovely Iran, the incarceration rate is 229. The US's northern neighbor has a rate of 102, while South of the border, it's 156. England andWales combined have a rate of 139. The figures are even lower in Scotland (126) and Northern Ireland (62). The rates for other nations that are interesting for comparison purposes:

Ukraine: 406
South Africa: 404
Israel: 153
Spain: 126
Australia: 116
China: 111
Soudi Arabia: 110
Germany: 96
Italy: 95
Uganda: 91
France: 85
Vietnam: 71
Japan: 48
Nigeria:34
India:28

So why does the US keep record numbers of its people in cages??? The field of criminal justice is wrestling with that question, and its answers are complicated, but among the biggest factors are an ever-increasing number of laws, mandatory sentancing, and the so-called War on Drugs (drug offenders make up around half the federal prison population.) Do I need to repeat that?

Who benefits financially in the US from having people in jail? Im sure the answer probably lies therein somehow.

Here is one article I found:

The private contracting of prisoners for work fosters incentives to lock people up. Prisons depend on this income. Corporate stockholders who make money off prisoners’ work lobby for longer sentences, in order to expand their workforce. The system feeds itself," says a study by the Progressive Labor Party, which accuses the prison industry of being "an imitation of Nazi Germany with respect to forced slave labor and concentration camps.

According to the Left Business Observer, the federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.

Source



[edit on 4-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Currently it's around 7m incarcerated according to the latest figures.

I've said this time and time again...to no avail. This time will be no different...if you want to cut down on your prison population..legalize pot. It sounds dumb, stupid, crazy, hippieish...any sort of negative connotation you want to stick me with, but it is the undebatable truth.

There comes a point where a nation has to look at it's policies..and ask "are these laws working?". I have calculated the math from them as well as from normls estimates that 60% of the people incarcerated are incarcerated for weed. Long story short after figuring out a solid ratio of who is locked up for pot...my math states that if weed were legalized tommorow..over 600,000 would be released from jail immediately. Add in probation..it comes close to 1.5 million that would be clear of any criminal background (if that was their ownly charge).

People are stupid so they will do what they want..but belive me..legalizeing pot tommorow will reduce our prison percent by 20% in the next few years...and it will keep it reduced.

Legal Weed = Permanent solution to prison overcrowding.

reply to post by Spawwwn


That is if they want to cut down on prison population. If you read the article I found, it seems quite the contrary. I mean, you have to start looking behind the official picture of things.

The official picture: "We want to protect the public".
The shady picture: "We make tons of cash from these people working for free".

Finding the truth about something is easy. Just ask: Who benefits financially?


[edit on 4-11-2007 by Copernicus]

Here's an article I found on USA Today website:

Malcolm Young, executive director of the Sentencing Project, which promotes alternatives to prison, said, "We're working under the burden of laws and practices that have developed over 30 years that have focused on punishment and prison as our primary response to crime."

He said many of those incarcerated are not serious or violent offenders, but are low-level drug offenders. Young said the prison population could be lowered by introducing drug treatment programs that offer effective ways of changing behavior and by providing appropriate assistance for the mentally ill.

Source: www.usatoday.com...

So why do we have so many low-level drug offenders in this country? Coud it be less than ideal public education? Fewer jobs? Higher rates of medical problems? People usually turn to drugs for a serious reason.

I think part of it has to do with the dumbing down of America. What people see on TV seems to exacerbate the problem. It's interesting how there are so many crime dramas and reality shows centered around crime and prison such as COPS, MSNBC's "Lockup" and there are many new ones that I can't remember the names of.

It's almost like our society is being conditioned to the prison mentality.

I would say there are multiple reasons for this.
First off, since this is a more financially diverse country, there are many who turn to crime to afford things that are otherwise outside their reach. The majority of the population here lives well outside their financial means.

Secondly, the punishment for these crimes is much less serious here in the US, and so more folks are willing to risk that punishment. Here, you have to commit a crime multiple times to end up doing any time, while in other countries you can lose a limb on the first offence.

Third, there is no real correction done in a correctional facility, folks put in them are more likely to learn new criminal skills, and get a worse attitude toward following laws, by the time they are released. It’s a proven fact that doing time will increase the chances of re-offending once someone is released.

fourth, and perhaps most significantly, there are more stupid and useless laws in this country that have been put in place by interest groups (a prime example being seatbelt laws pushed by the insurance industry), and voted into existence by local governments that want to justify large budgets for those in law enforcement, and the judicial system (Almost all politicians come from sheriffs, DA’s, Judges, Lawyers, and the like). So basically, putting people in prison is an industry, it generates money for Judges, Police Officers, Lawyers, Corrections Officers, and thousands of others. You can guarantee a large budget or profit for that group by arresting a lot of folks on trumped up charges. This is one reason that officers stack unnecessary charges.

I would seriously doubt any number China or Russia provides for this type of statistic. Many other countries have people just disappear and these numbers are never know for public consumption.

The USA has a relative free printed media and crime reporting and punishment are done in an open system.

Did you guys ever think that we have more people in prison because we have a much larger population so duh of course we have more people in prison.

Higher Population = Higher Crime = Higher Incarceration Rate.

And no, its not all due to MJ. In my local county jail (daily average of 2,000 inmates) the vast majority are actually in there for violent crime and DWI related reasons.

DUH!
What else would you expect from a country that has become so politically correct we are not supposed to punish wrong doers because it hurts their feelings. Instead we choose to let them get away with things and continue to reward bad behavior until eventually the only thing left is prison.
ACLU at its best.

Well, as a Criminal Justice major....I for one believe our CJ system needs an overhaul. It doesnt work.

But until that happens....people have a choice to not break the laws. Dont break them....you dont get in trouble.

In the meantime, people should be trying to change laws, not break them. I have no compassion for criminals. Id rather them be off the streat then on the streat a threat to me and the rest of society.

As far as drugs go. Well, even if drugs were legal. Not everyone would be able to aford them. So there would still be crime associated with drugs. On top of that, some people become horrible people while on drugs. Same as alcohol. I think anything that changes a person's behavior should be regulated...and they should be held accountable if they do harm to someone else while under the influence.

I would like to see manditory counseling for any drug related crimes though. I do understand those peopel who are addicted - they need help, and just sitting in a cell wont help their problem.

I also would like to see prostitution made legal and regulated. Makes it safer for all parties involved. If someone wants to pay for or get money for sex....let them....but give them a safe environment to do so.

I actually think the CJ systems is too easy on criminals. I think it needs to be much harder. I also think all the luxuries of prison need to be completely eliminated. No TV. No magazines. No porn. No shopping in the prison commissary. That stuff drives me nuts!

Anyways, bottom line. An overhaul is needed. But I dont forsee it happening unfortunately


[edit on 4-11-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Currently it's around 7m incarcerated according to the latest figures.

That is not the number of people incarcerated. That includes the total number of people in jail, prison, parole, probation, and detention-diversion programs (e.g. court-ordered substance-abuse rehab, boot-camps, etc.)

You can take little NORML says with full faith, they have always been known for their half-truths and deception. Also, you need to note that nobody is going to prison for simple possession of marijuana. Maybe jail if they've got a list of priors, but not prison, and even jail is unlikely for simple possession.

I remember a few years ago there was talk about fast-tracking executions in the federal system by eliminating frivolous appeals and various other tweaks so that the amount of time between sentencing and final justice would be two years, instead of the current 20-30 years. This would thin out the numbers at least a bit.

Bottom line is that people know they are committing a crime when they do so, and it's harder than ever to even get sentenced to incarceration. If you don't like a policy (drugs, whatever) there are legal ways to work towards changing it. Skinning up outside of town hall may sound like a good idea to a stoner, but it's not legitimate act of political protest. Some people are just determined to up their street cred by serving time it would seem.

There was a study in Boston (if I recall correctly, it was one of the larger cities in New England, I remember that much) a number of years ago that found even locking up petty criminals (car/bicycle thieves, shoplifters, etc.) resulted in a smaller net dollar cost to society than letting them out on the streets. That is, it was cheaper dollar for dollar for society to keep them behind bars than to pay to clean up the messes they averaged out on the streets.

Many people are appalled at how short sentences are for criminals, not the other way around. Did you know the average stay in prison for somebody who kills their spouse (with no priors) is eight (8) years?! Heck, depending on your spouse and how much money you're worth... well, we won't go there...

posted on 11/6/07 at 15:38


Lets break this down a bit.
Things we know:

1 The system is based on money. Like anything else here in the states money talks the loudest. To clarify, cash gets you out on bond, the best defense and a different set of rules in some cases (white collar crimes).

2 The punishment does not fit the crime. Where else in the world can you find a murderer get the same amount of time as a low level drug dealer (second or third offense).

3 The amount of loopholes in the system is rediculous . Laws are passed that make little sense or are written too broad.


Things not well known:

1 You are innocent until proven guilty! If this were so why would you be locked up until a trial takes place. Once again this falls under the rich. Unless a judge refuses bond the rich are not held.

2 Time spent locked up before trial is not automatically applied to your sentence. It's up to your lawyer and the judge to have that time applied to your sentence if found guilty.

3 Two words, concurrent and consecutive. A person can be found guilty of 5 charges totaling 50 years but if these charges are run as concurrent that person can do as little as 12 years or less. Example, a person is found guilty on five charges, the person is given 12 years for the worst crime and the four other charges add up to 38 years a total of 50 years. If run concurrent the 5 charges are run side by side and the person does a total of 12 years and is freed. If sentenced to consecutive years then the 50 years are done.
The judge has the ultimate say here.

4 Sentence modification. After doing the majority of time a inmate will go to a sentence modification herring. Things like past history while locked up, prison over crowding and others are taking into account and this same person that received 50 years but is doing 12 total can now possibly be out even earlier.

Some years back a ex U.S. Marine had been arrested in Japan trying to bring drugs back to the states. He was locked up there for some time before activist groups here got wind of it. They called the prison system there inhumane. Caining and other methods are still used for discipline. Other topics were also brought up but in the end Japan made a statement and close its doors.

"We have the population denseness of your New York city and one tenth your crime"
There's something to think on.

The way our system stands now there is no deterrent from committing a crime. It is solely based on the individuals murals. The evidence speaks for its self.

there is an amazing video on this exact topic called "American Drug War: the Last White Hope."

I believe if you serve life sentences you should be killed... Why should you be able to rot away in prison and take up room?

A total of 127,677 inmates in 2002/2003 were in prison for life, up from fewer than 70,000 in 1992.

www.worldrevolution.org...

Here is the bottom line: The people that make long term decidions that impact society in real ways: In the laws and customs of the people, are not about to let things progres by themselves, willy nilly and unaffected by them. No way. Here are the facts:

The real rulers decided long ago that a certain system would work, and it does. They create a PERMENENT UNDERCLASS of millions of people. In the old days of welfare, many gross injustices were done and many outrages reported in abuses of the system, prompting outrage from the politicians and then onto the peoples radar. There was a vast reliance on inner city dwellers for food stamps and cash welfare payments, which often were mismanaged or used for purposes other than intended. This was not lack of foresight by any means, this was all planned.

Then, in a few years, the laws changed to ' Workfare ' type schemes that were supposed to dramitcally reduce the welfare rolls and discourage the ' Cadillac Mom's ' with food stamps from being an innue any more. But, there are no new jobs to replace the welfare checks that stopped, so poverty was assured and a newly expanded class of people were created that were without means of support and nop jobs to go to..no transportation outside of major cities, manufacturing jobs goping where?

To Mexico and Idnia and China, anywhere but here. This is all planned, of course. Nafta, and cafta, and the rest all planned out and passed no matter who was President or what party leaders said..as usual. So, no jobs and no checks equals what? CRIME!! thats what. Despondent people will consume more and heavier substances to try and alleviate stress and trauma and hopelessness, as humans will do. Kids become drug dealers and lookouts because it is an available and lucrative income, if one frought with risks, for sure.

So, we have a destitute and hopeless population with inadequate services and health care, no support other than charities, massive hoomelessness and inadequate housing, schools bursting at the seams..all a riope situation for CONTROL. All that crime must be dealt with, and that costs a lot and employs many millions of people. Drugs will ALWAYS be sought after, as long as the human condition remains a miserable and meager existence for many..also many people enjoy the recreational use of substances and if used in moderation by adults, there can be NO LOGICAL argument made against legalizing and controlling the market, like with tobacco and alcohol.

Prohibition is ALWAYS doomed to fail, and for good reasons: Crimes are events that cause harm or other negative impact on someone else and are undeserev and unjustified by any means. We all know what is repugnant to the average mind and conscience, we all know when we have been harmed..but in the world of drugs, we tend to abandon all logic and rationality and instead keep repeating the old mantra: Just say no, just say no..ad nauseum. It has never worked and will never work. Where there is a desire, there will be a market. Where there is a market, there are either controls that insure compliance with sensible parameters, such as age and ability to manage and sobriety, etc.

Right now the dealers are not asking for ID and they are not obliged to sell a clean and real product. It is a system fraught with dangers of every kind, and makes no sense. We do not see the liquor store owners shooting it out for street corners, do we? If drugs were taken away from the cops and courts and instead placed in the medical lexicon again and made a medical issue, we would see crime drop drmaticaly all over the world. The market could make a profit, a great profit, and charge only a fraction of what is being gotten now. If someone had to have some drug or commit a crime to get the money for it, in a real system he could go to a clinic and under supervised conditions get his fix and go on his way not bothering anyone.

That approach is being used in Europe to a degree and the initial results are all positive: A somewhat older chronic junkie population committs most of the offenses reported related to drug crime, such as burglaries, etc.If a person does not have to steal to get his medicine, then that makes sense, yes? A cheap dose saves a lot of hassles for all concerned, and saves BILLIONS in tax dollars now wasted on chasing people and arresting and jailing them only to have them get out and go right back to their previous conduct unchanged. 80-90 % of all substance users have NO PROBLEM with their drug use: it is always the 1-5 % of hardcore users and addicts that make a bad name for substance use, just like an obnoxious drunk makes drinkers look bad..if one judges by example, that is.

But the people in power have built vast industries in prisons all over the nation that make profits: The inmates are paid almost nothing and the profits are great for the owners and bosses. They need a steady and ASSURED stream of inmates to work in their mills and factories on the prison grounds. If they were to legalize and REGULATE all drugs, starting first with the most logical, cannabis, followed by others in order with their potential for abuse, until finally a system exists that allows adults who wish to alter their realities privately and without bothering anyone else to obtain virtually any substance available and cost effective.

But that would mean so many less cops needed, and guards at prisons, and all the food suppliers and associated industries, not to mention the big corporations that have placed vast resources into these prison work places that the entire system would have to change. You can imaghine how thrilled all the cops and guards unions would be..what a laugh. The money that is generated from the most petty bust is staggering: For one joint today it could cost you for " Bail, attorney, transportation, document preps, court costs, fines, and possibly jail time as well. They are profiting from this madness and that means you cannot touch it!!

They KNOW it makes no sense. They KNOW that it contravenes all Constitutional intent. They KNOW that the system is corrupt and degrades the justice system with inequity and waste. But it makes them MONEY and that is enough.Rather than change the profits to the sellers and manufacturers of the newly legalized and regulated markets and its associated necessities, they are content to keep the money where it is, thats the bottom line. Why upset the money flow and change the whole thing when they have a neat and tidy operation goping now? Social justice..doing the right thing.? Please!! Thats in the old way of thinking, the reality based crowd believes that stuff!! Amazing, isn't it?

Anyway,as long as prison industries makes money for the players at the top, they must have repressive and stupid laws to keep the cells full and the line moving! What makes sense to us does not make sense to someone making money off of the system, and they are in charge, so we lose for now.More and more laws, more and mnore bodies for the prison industries, more and more profits for the few..thats our future here in the goold old USA. Prisons are the newest growth industry!! For real!! What does that tell us? That we are allosing ourselves to be rounded up and herded into cells because we choose to think and act in ways that the bosses forbid without reason or logic or scientific merit, all to fill the cells.

Of course the decriminalization of all drugs over a period of time and in highly structured ways will both solve the crime problems associated with PROHIBITION and the issue of freedom for citizens: Any adult American ought to be able to self medicate and use anything he or she desires to, as long as they affect no one else negatively. There are ways to help those who end up having a problem with drugs, and that is medical treatment ONLY: Arresting and jailing addicts and people with problems is barbaric and stupid and totally NOT justifiable at all.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Did you guys ever think that we have more people in prison because we have a much larger population so duh of course we have more people in prison.

Higher Population = Higher Crime = Higher Incarceration Rate.

DUH! Maybe you should reread the OP to better comprehend it. You can start with the title "The US imprisons more of its population". He is not saying we have the most people in prison, we have a larger prisoner to population ratio.

Next you might want to check on populations of some of the lower countries. India and China both have way bigger populations than we do yet they are locking up way less people.

So to answer your question, no I haven't thought "we have more people in prison because we have a much larger population" because I know some basics in geography, DUH!

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Did you guys ever think that we have more people in prison because we have a much larger population so duh of course we have more people in prison.

Higher Population = Higher Crime = Higher Incarceration Rate.




DUH! Maybe you should reread the OP to better comprehend it. You can start with the title "The US imprisons more of its population". He is not saying we have the most people in prison, we have a larger prisoner to population ratio.


This is exactly what im saying.

I wonder why this is? Any suggestions? Other countries have larger drug use ratios. SOme have more weapons to population ratios...

nobody in this thread really cares, this is just old fashioned USA bashing

deny ignorance indeed