When was he last time the government helped you?

Yesterday I heard Michael Savage talk about this, he said that the government never helped anyone at any given times. Does everyone agree with him to some extent? I thought his classification of conservatives was right:"Blue panty money whores". Right now the rich officials just sit there and enjoy their lives, and doesn't give a damn about how to run the country. For all I can remember the government has never helped us, atleast not from request.

I dunno, I got a lot of low-interest student loans. Pretty nice. What about the Interstate Highway System?

Room and board for a few days..................................

Are we classing Police Officers, Fire Fighters, Paramedics, Coast Guard, Search & Rescue, the Military etc etc etc as part of the Government for this post?

I get my SSDI check like clockwork monthly, plus I have health insurance I couldn't get privately.

So I think the government helps me. At least as to income and insurance.

Where to start?

Went to school via gov loans, grants, etc.
Bought my first house via a gov approved low intrest loan.
Travel to various other countries with my gov passport.
Set my alarm clock via the NIST.
It runs off of a gov subsidized rural electric company.
It wakes me up to a radio station that the gov licensed to use those airwaves.
Get dressed in clothes from another country that the gov allowed the import of.
Drink coffee from another country the gov allowed to be imported.
Eat breakfast the FDA verified to be safe (sort of).
Shower in water the gov set standards for.
Drive to work in a car the gov set safety standards for.
Drive on roads the gov created.
Put gas in the car safely due to gov regs.
Paid for it with money the gov printed.
Make it thru intersections safely because of gov standardized regulations.
Drop the kids off at a school the gov regulates.
Stop for fast food thats relatively safe due to gov regs.
Chat with the Chief of Police about yesterdays arrest of a wife beater while I'm there.
Work at a building thats heated powered and build with gov standards for safety.
Get paid regularly due to gov regulations.
Bank at an FDIC guaranteed bank.
Picked up the wife, who I married within gov regulations.
Picked up the kids and went to a national forest to look at the fall foliage.
On the internet that the gov created.
Surf ATS from my ez chair on my laptop via wireless that the gov regulates, over broadband that the gov approved and subsidized.

Hum, Nope, guess your right.

The gov never did anything for me or anyone.

Yeah, I know.
There are problems with all of the above, (including the wife and kids part ), but my point is, the gov helps your life in a lot of different ways everyday. We just tend to overlook all those things, and focus on the bad parts.

Part of being human I guess.



[edit on 11/3/07 by makeitso]

Its very in vogue for people to think the government doesn't help anybody. it just isn't true. Don't get me wrong the government is selfish arrogant with a lot of hidden agendas, but it doesn't change the fact that not every thing they do is bad.

I could list every thing they have done for me including helping get back on my feet after I almost died when I wrecked my jeep. I was off work for 8 months and allowed only part time for another 4 months after that. My tax dollars came back to me to help me pay my bills.

Thats just the tip of the ice berg all the other post above this have done a fine job of documenting all the stuff So I wont go over that ground again.

Michael Savage and his opinions really don't do any thing to help bad situations, he is about as useful as that drug head rush llimbaugh. Neither see the truth they see only what they want to see twist it even more and open there mouths. they never do one ting to actually help anything except there own pockets.

Well thats my opinion any way.

I used the Small Business Administration to set up my business with capital and information from Government sponsored entity's.

The Army Corps of Engineers maintains the river where I conduct my business.

Once when I was down and out, I got food Stamps.

However I think what your are referencing is that ultimately it is the US taxpayers that are doing the actual "helping" and the govt. is just the redistribution tool. Somebody's got to do it.

Sort of like when you see an recuriting ad for the military. "Paid for by the US Army"

Actually paid for by the US taxpayer.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by whaaa]

Originally posted by whaaa
However I think what your are referencing is that ultimately it is the US taxpayers that are doing the actual "helping" and the govt. is just the redistribution tool. Somebody's got to do it.

Taxation, at least in the modern era, is actually referred to as "wealth redistribution", so your right on the money there. the Government just takes charge in order to maintain the health of the nation. But without Government, there'd be no tax, so they go hand in hand.

LOL!......This topic reminds me of Monty Pythons Life of Brian, where the PLFJ (or is it the PFJ?) sit around in a room discussing "What have the Romans ever done for us!"

well, the last time the government helped me was when it paid for my healthcare, but that's the great thing about malta, socialized medicine

i was sick, they covered the costs

When we first moved to the US, we had to live off of food stamps for a year.

Currently, police officers are keeping my neighborhood safe and my sisters are getting HOPE Scholarship.

ooo, i remember something. shortly before i left america a police officer stopped a drunk driver on the road. that really kept me safe

and that was just one instance of that happening in front of me...

I'm going to see a doctor Monday to get rid of this cold, all my medical is free thanks to the gov't.

I go to school for free as long as I get a "C" or better. I will take advantage of this next year.

I get lots of tax free benefits from the gov't for housing.

I think those 3 are pretty important to me at this point in time.

The government in the UK as far as im concerned will never help anyone except themselves. I have noticed this with many corporations as well; very quick to take your money but very slow to provide you an adequate service. This also applies to customer service as well.

I have in the past six or so months written a fair few complaint letters to companies such as Vodafone and BSM, even Hackney council due to their extremely poor services, continuous lies to get me off the phone (fobbing me off) and im sure they just see us as (numbers) money in the system to leach off of.

Thats my one pence

EDIT:
PS. to me nothing is free in the west (as far as ive seen). People say schooling and health services are free. Well i pay quite a lot for PAYE and NI, NI goes towards the health services does it not? So going to see a doc or going to hospital isnt 'free'. Not sure exactly how my PAYE tax is spent but im sure council tax goes towards school in that area. We pay 17.5% tax on nearly everything in the UK. You even get taxed on inheritance money. For me to go to uni i have to take out a loan, due to circumstances, i cant further my education and also another thing that irritates me, i went to school in east london, my parents took both my sister and myself out of school for 6 months and moved areas as the education was so bad. I was held back in high school with "learning difficulties". Wasnt until i got out in the big wide world that i actually improved everything from spelling to maths & geography =] end of rant lol

[edit on 4-11-2007 by rapturas]

Originally posted by rapturas
The government in the UK as far as im concerned will never help anyone except themselves.

The UK Government does an awful lot to help you. Unless of course you've never been to school, relied on the police, used the roads or other transport links, used any electricity or gas, used a phone, or been ill?

To say they do nothing is just plain ignorant.

Originally posted by rapturas
I have in the past six or so months written a fair few complaint letters to companies such as Vodafone and BSM, even Hackney council due to their extremely poor services, continuous lies to get me off the phone (fobbing me off) and im sure they just see us as (numbers) money in the system to leach off of.

Personally, I've never experienced a perfect service off anyone. To expect that is a bit naive.

Originally posted by rapturas
EDIT:
PS. to me nothing is free in the west (as far as ive seen). People say schooling and health services are free.

At point of service, they are. Your quite welcome to send your kids private, but you'd be looking at £1500/term (I've looked into it for my own daughter) minimum.

Originally posted by rapturas
Well i pay quite a lot for PAYE and NI, NI goes towards the health services does it not?

Partly, yes.

Originally posted by rapturas
So going to see a doc or going to hospital isnt 'free'.

Anyone who knows the actual arrangement never says it is. It is a simplification to say it is free. Is it not better than forking out even more money on insurance? At least with NI, you are charged according to your ability to pay. Rich people pay more, poor people pay less. Everyone gets the same service.

Personally, I pay £266.57 on average per month for NI. I also get Private health from my employer.

Originally posted by rapturas
Not sure exactly how my PAYE tax is spent but im sure council tax goes towards school in that area.

Income tax (what you erroneously call PAYE) is spent on almost everything else the Government does. I currently pay £458.69 per month in income tax.

You also seem to operate under the misguided notion that council tax pay's for Education, Police etc. it goes partly towards that, but local authorities get significant lump sums from central Government to subsidise services which comes from general taxation.

Originally posted by rapturas
We pay 17.5% tax on nearly everything in the UK.

Sales tax is not a UK thing as almost everywhere has it, in fact, 17.5% is quite low compared to some countries.

Read this

Originally posted by rapturas
You even get taxed on inheritance money.

Ah, I suppose your likely to inherit an estate over £300,000 then? Only around 5% of people are ever affected by inheritance tax. It is a tabloid thing to hype up what is really a non-issue. It really only affects home owners in the SE badly, which is why there are moves to have the limits increased.

Originally posted by rapturas
For me to go to uni i have to take out a loan, due to circumstances, i cant further my education

Well, that is one thing that bugs me, but at least it is a low-cost loan available to almost everyone. Thank the Scottish for that one though.

Originally posted by rapturas
and also another thing that irritates me, i went to school in east london, my parents took both my sister and myself out of school for 6 months and moved areas as the education was so bad. I was held back in high school with "learning difficulties". Wasnt until i got out in the big wide world that i actually improved everything from spelling to maths & geography =] end of rant lol

Sounds like the blame rests with your parents then. To take you out of school for 6 months would be illegal, unless they could provide adequate home schooling, which they obviously didn't. If the schools were that bad, and I doubt they were that bad, then your parents should have made provisions. Sounds like, on this example, you trying to have your cake and eat it too.



[edit on 4/11/07 by stumason]

reply to post by stumason


Ok im not going to debate about this, we have two different views, that is clear. Ok, PAYE, thats what is deducted along with NI off my pay slip(and it isn’t just a few pounds either), how is that erroneous? As I stated, I pay NI so when I do fall seriously ill (which I tend to just get medicine from the chemist but anyway) I would say that I have already contributed enough to the government through all the taxes I have paid for any treatment I would receive and lets face it, the NHS isn’t great, if anything it is extremely poor from what I have seen and heard.

Yes I went to school, my parents paid taxes which subsequently went towards my extremely poor education! I don’t drive so I don’t use the road but, don’t you have to pay road tax? Tax, tax tax! That’s all im going to say because as far as im concerned, I pay through my nose to live in this country! Of course, its better than other countries don’t get me wrong however, I am beyond annoyed that so much money is wasted on the war machine, careless politicians wasting tax payers money etc etc.
Do you think the government would provide an accurate balance sheet to justify every penny spent? I think not =p

edit. just for the record, on my pay slip for may2006 (as i havent got any recent ones to hand as they are at work in my desk drawer) i had paid 398.76£ PAYE and 210.47£ NI for that month =p

pps. and for the record, i have no problem with a country defending itself but i am WAY against nuclear weapons, and how much of our tax money has been spent on nuclear weapons?
Also, arent 3/5 children in london living below the poverty line? that distgusts me, maybe im too emo
there was an article last year which im sure stated 3/52= children in london lived below the poverty line but heres some older articles
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.wsws.org...
Why isnt the government helping them i wonder? too busy wasting money elsewhere i presume

[edit on 4-11-2007 by rapturas]

I lived off the country for a year or two (yes, i was a dole rat), but i don't really see that as helping anyone in particular, and it certainly didn't help me insofar as my lifestyle was concerned.

Naturally, one cannot use this as an example, because if everyone did it the government wouldn't really be helping anyone, would it?

Originally posted by rapturas
Ok im not going to debate about this, we have two different views, that is clear.

Surely then, debate is required? Two people who agree are not likely to debate anything....

Originally posted by rapturas
Ok, PAYE, thats what is deducted along with NI off my pay slip(and it isn’t just a few pounds either), how is that erroneous?

PAYE is just a system to enable you to pay you annual income tax bill, monthly. It isn't a tax in itself, ergo, it was erroneous to describe it as such.

Originally posted by rapturas
As I stated, I pay NI so when I do fall seriously ill (which I tend to just get medicine from the chemist but anyway) I would say that I have already contributed enough to the government through all the taxes I have paid for any treatment I would receive and lets face it, the NHS isn’t great, if anything it is extremely poor from what I have seen and heard.

Dude, thats why you pay NI. For your health. I am going to hazard a guess and say your pretty young. Mid twenties? Your probably in good shape.

How will you feel about the NHS in 30 years time when you might have a heart condition? Or cancer? Or some other god forsaken disease?

Given the choice, would you prefer to have treatment limited due to cost because your insurance policy doesn't cover it, or would you rather just go to hospital and get fixed?

As for your comment on the NHS being poor, for someone who doesn;t use it ( your words), can I ask how the bloody hell you can come to that assessment?

My brother had kidney failure from birth. He went to THE BEST Kidney hospital in the WORLD for treatment. Do you know what hospital that was? Guys & St. Thomas in London.

Many more family members have been treated by the NHS very well. I myself have had a couple of hospital visits and aside from the food, the treatment was fast and effective.

An A&E visit took me 2 hours in total from the time I arrived to being discharged for a head wound.

For someone who admits they don't use a service, you seem to have some misguided opinions on it.

Originally posted by rapturas
Yes I went to school, my parents paid taxes which subsequently went towards my extremely poor education!

And my parents paid their taxes and I got a brilliant education. What's your point? Just because you came out of school unable to read, that's the Government's fault? From what you said, your parents are to blame for removing you from the system for 6 months!

Originally posted by rapturas
I don’t drive so I don’t use the road but, don’t you have to pay road tax? Tax, tax tax!

A tax which goes towards the (very expensive) upkeep of the highly developed transport system in this country. At least our Government invests. Many Americans complain that their roads and bridges are in a poor state.

Originally posted by rapturas
That’s all im going to say because as far as im concerned, I pay through my nose to live in this country! Of course, its better than other countries don’t get me wrong however, I am beyond annoyed that so much money is wasted on the war machine, careless politicians wasting tax payers money etc etc.
Do you think the government would provide an accurate balance sheet to justify every penny spent? I think not =p

granted, there is wastage, but your assessment that it's the military is wayyyy off the mark. The MoD consumes less than 3% (£30 odd Billion) of the budget. Social Security consumes almost 1/3rd (£300 Billion) and the NHS 1/10th (£110 Billion). One of the biggest wastes of money is in fact the Civil Service, but I won't go into that here, otherwise I'll rant.

Originally posted by rapturas
edit. just for the record, on my pay slip i have paid 398.76£ PAYE and 210.47£ NI pcm =p

Not doing to badly then? I'd say around £30k? You can thank the Government for the stable economy which allows you to have a job....

Thanks for trying to prove your point it is appreciated but the fact of the matter is i consider that our government hasnt done as much as it can and should to help out lower income people. higher income people dont need help. check out the articles i added to my above post. i will try and locate a more recent one which i saw last year but it really upsets me seeing people suffer and i have seen it in london as i spent a good 12 years living in manor park/forest gate.
And yes, im 26. I worked my little butt off from the age of 17 to present, was working two jobs (70+ hours a week) and tried doing 3 A level courses. Fortunately for me i was determined enough to not be stuck in poverty and to be honest burnt myself out trying to work.


[edit on 4-11-2007 by rapturas]