USS Enterprise the subject of a coming false flag?

As the author of the OP's quoted and linked source stated on the second page:

Most of us (are) aware that the US Special Forces and Israeli Mossad Units are some of the best in the world at infiltrating and commandeering enemy positions; Whereas the post in the US Navy Forum speculated the attack would be via Chinese made Silkworm missiles, the stakes have been raised much higher, and Iran has deployed the fearsome Russian made Sunburn Anti-ship Missile throughout the straights of Hormuz, and commandeering one of those positions and firing several of those at the USS Enterprise would be child’s-play for CIA, US Special Forces, or even the Mossad. I have never underestimated the capability of any of those agencies - and with our history of False-Flag attacks, this is a matter that we need to keep on eye on - whether it’s a probability, possibility, or in the alternative, pure poppycock.

I have no inside information that any of the above is true, and am merely posting this information because if the US was to sacrifice any of our Carriers to start a war with Iran - it would seem highly probable to me that we would sacrifice the USS Enterprise since it is due to be deactivated upon completion of the CVNX 1.

The point is, not the revolting "Hal Turner Show" nor the e-mail author, JP Liggett, but the author of the OpEdNews.com article, William Cormier, has sighted the original e-mail as the catalyst for his idea that this updated, and still quite possible, scenario may be valid.

Any "news" taken from an obviously contemptible source such as "The Hal Turner Show" needs to be taken with an un-healthy mega-dose of salt.

Just as it would be wise to consider the source and their hidden agendas, with perhaps a more measured dose of seasoning, of any "news" originating from the MSM.

The fact is, the "Sunburn" is one nasty weapon:

The Sunburn can deliver a 200-kiloton nuclear payload, or: a 750-pound conventional warhead, within a range of 100 miles, more than twice the range of the Exocet. The Sunburn combines a Mach 2.1 speed (two times the speed of sound) with a flight pattern that hugs the deck and includes "violent end maneuvers" to elude enemy defenses. The missile was specifically designed to defeat the US Aegis radar defense system. Should a US Navy Phalanx point defense somehow manage to detect an incoming Sunburn missile, the system has only seconds to calculate a fire solution not enough time to take out the intruding missile. The US Phalanx defense employs a six-barreled gun that fires 3,000 depleted-uranium rounds a minute, but the gun must have precise coordinates to destroy an intruder "just in time."

The Sunburn's combined supersonic speed and payload size produce tremendous kinetic energy on impact, with devastating consequences for ship and crew. A single one of these missiles can sink a large warship, yet costs considerably less than a fighter jet. Although the Navy has been phasing out the older Phalanx defense system, its replacement, known as the Rolling Action Missile (RAM) has never been tested against the weapon it seems destined to one day face in combat.

Source | Rense.com | The Sunburn - Iran's Awesome Nuclear Anti-Ship Missile

I propose, knowing what we know about the capabilities of these "Sunburn" cruise missiles, if we lose any ships in the Gulf before Cheney starts bombing Iran, it will have been "allowed" to happen.

I further propose, Iran will not take the first military action in this escalating confrontation, they have too much to lose.

If it appears they have, it will have been an orchestrated event, by those powers that have "everything" to gain.

Like Armageddon...

reply to post by Tinhatman


I find it amusing how Soviet era weapons sytems or say systems like the Bhramos attain near mytological status all the while basically saying the Aegis system cannot deal with them.

Even in the confines of the Persian Gulf, the Sunburn et al. will have to get past the CAP, the Aegis, ESSM, RAM, and CIWS. Can it get a hit possibly but just as likely would the defences of the carrier shield it? People forget that US carrier battle groups were designed to go up into the Berrings etc and play in the USSR's frontyard.

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that the United States has faked (and/or allowed) an attack to happen in order to start every military encounter they have ever embarked on. Heck, they even used 911 as an excuse to head to Iraq even though Saddam had nothing to do with it!

Iran knows this, and they have already made statements to the effect of "if there is an attack it was faked, we are not going to be so stupid as to start a war".

I thought the article I found was odder then some random anonymous email anyway. At least it was from a news source.

Originally posted by Anubis Kanubis
Is there a need for a pretext for war with Iran? It seems that diplomacy is on the table for everyone except the Bush administration. Would a false flag involving the sinking of one of our carriers bring the war to your homes?

From external source: www.opednews.com...

PREPARE FOR THE SINKING OF A U.S. AIRCRAFT CARRIER - The USS Enterprise CVN-65!

JP Liggett
Carmel, NY

Oct 8, 2006

“THOSE PLANNING THE ATTACK ARE INSIDE THE U.S. AND ISRAELI GOVERNMENTS and view the loss of the Enterprise crew as a necessary sacrifice to induce Americans to support war against Iran. Put bluntly, the ship and crew are to be cannon
fodder.”

IRAN WAR PLAN EXPOSED!
PREPARE FOR THE SINKING OF A U.S. AIRCRAFT CARRIER - The USS Enterprise CVN-65!
From: RBOW

The existence of a hideous plan to sacrifice a U.S. Aircraft Carrier as a
pretext for war with Iran is presently being uncovered!

The Hal Turner Show has been told that within the next five (5) weeks, the
United States will “suffer” a missile attack upon the aircraft carrier USS
Enterprise, presently on patrol near the Persian Gulf. This attack will appear
to be from numerous “Silkworm” and/or “Sunburn” missiles which will sink the
vessel and kill most of the 5,000 crew onboard.

The “attack” will be blamed on Iran and thus provide the Bush Administration
with an excuse to go to war with that nation.

The Hal Turner Show has learned that the missiles used to attack the USS
Enterprise will not be fired from or by Iran, but rather will be a “false flag
operation” made to LOOK as though Iran carried out the attack!!

I am not one to validate warnings and predictions like this. However, I saw it as a valuable piece to those that may have loved ones aboard.

This is an obvious hoax
HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX

Notice the letters date is OCTOBER 08, 2006 ???
and that the "sinking" would happen within 5 weeks???
That puts the sinking no later then November 15, 2006 which is approximately 1 year ago.

God I HATE HOAXERS !!!

reply to post by jfj123


You obviously didn't read the thread. I hate that.

Originally posted by Anubis Kanubis
reply to post by jfj123

 

You obviously didn't read the thread. I hate that.

I am responding to the first post which started the whole thread. That post stands on it's own. If it didn't, someone should have added to it. I hate when people open threads with info that are obviously not current.

Originally posted by Anubis Kanubis

Originally posted by Cuhail
I am under the impression that the PLANX defensive system onboard most carriers is designed to eliminate any such attack.
Am I wrong to think these two missiles would be destroyed before they'd hit any carrier?

Cuhail

These missiles in particular are extremely fast (mach 1+). They also travel very close to the surface of the ocean so they are undetectable by radar.

The standard US Navy anti-missile defense system is too slow to engage the Sunburn. This system, called the Phalanx, has only about 2.5 seconds to react to the Sunburn.

However, Raytheon has rolled out the SeaRAM ship missile defense system which can defeat the Sunburn anti-ship missile.

Originally posted by jfj123

This is an obvious hoax
HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX

Thanks for the post jfj. I don't think you are reading the thread.


But thanks for your input however uninformed.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by jfj123

This is an obvious hoax
HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX HOAX

Thanks for the post jfj. I don't think you are reading the thread.


But thanks for your input however uninformed.

Well, why don't you tell me what I missed? thanks

For what it's worth the Enterprise (CVN-65) was redeployed to the Persian Gulf as of August 12th. It is part of a larger force projection in the region. You can track United States Navy carrier movements at the link below.

Carrier tracking site

There is another article that should be taken into consideration when discussing the USS Enterprise and false-flag attacks. Yes, I'm the author of the above topic, and please note these words I included:

and with our history of False-Flag attacks, this is a matter that we need to keep on eye on - whether it’s a probability, possibility, or in the alternative, pure poppycock. (Emphasis added)

I do believe there is another article that was written by Michael Salla, Ph.D., that is germane to this discussion and in some ways, validates my point that we need to remain aware and vigilant when so many of America's military are in harms way.

The Neoconservative Agenda to Sacrifice the Fifth Fleet – The New Pearl Harbor

by Michael Salla, Ph.D. Page 1 of 2 page(s)


The Bush administation has covered up and ignored dissenting Pentagon war games analysis that suggests an attack on Iran’s nuclear or military facilities will lead directly to the annihilation of the Navy’s Fifth Fleet now stationed in the Persian Gulf. Lt. General Paul Van Riper led a hypothetical Persian Gulf state in the 2002 Millennium Challenge wargames that resulted in the destruction of the Fifth Fleet. His experience and conclusions regarding the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to an assymetrical military conflict and the implications for a war against Iran have been ignored. Neoconservatives within the Bush administration are currently aggressively promoting a range of military actions against Iran that will culminate in it attacking the US Navy’s Fifth Fleet with sophisticated cruise anti-ship missiles. They are ignoring Van Riper’s experiences in the Millennium Challenge and how it applies to the current nuclear conflict with Iran.

Iran has sufficient quantities of cruise missiles to destroy much or all of the Fifth Fleet which is within range of Iran’s mobile missile launchers strategically located along its mountainous terrain overlooking the Persian Gulf. The Bush administration is deliberately downplaying the vulnerability of the Fifth Fleet to Iran’s advanced missile technology which has been purchased from Russia and China since the late 1990’s. The most sophisticated of Iran’s cruise missiles are the ‘Sunburn’ and ‘Yakhonts’. These are missiles against which U.S. military experts conclude modern warships have no effective defense. By deliberately provoking an Iranian retaliation to U.S. military actions, the neoconservatives will knowingly sacrifice much or all of the Fifth Fleet. This will culminate in a new Pearl Harbor that will create the right political environment for total war against Iran, and expanded military actions in the Persian Gulf region.

The Fifth Fleet’s Vulnerability to Iran’s Anti-Ship Missile Arsenal

The U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet is headquartered in the Gulf State of Bahrain which is responsible for patrolling the Persian Gulf, Arabian Sea, Suez Canal and parts of the Indian Ocean. The Fifth Fleet currently comprises a carrier group and two helicopter carrier ships. Its size peaked at five aircraft carrier groups and six helicopter carriers in 2003 during the invasion of Iraq. Presently, it is led by the USS Enterprise (CVN-65), the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier commissioned in 1961, and on November 2, began participating in a Naval exercise in the Persian Gulf . www.opednews.com...

Please excuse me not understanding how to use your system of block-quotes and links yet, however, this is a highly informative article and it does quote material that is verified and are facts - not supposition.

Thanks for allowing me to post here.

Best Regards,

William Cormier
Aka justanothercoverup.com...

Thank you John Lear, Augustus, and W J Cormier...

This is an important topic with so many of our loved ones over there.

reply to post by wjcormier


Welcome to ATS Mr. Cormier, thank you for your post.

According to the following article, due to the grounding of the F-15's, the Enterprise has been pulled back to the Arabian Sea as of about the 5th of this month.

A defense official tells ABC News that the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise sailed out of the Persian Gulf Monday to the Arabian Sea. Its planes began flying missions over Afghanistan earlier today.
It is unclear how long the USS Enterprise will stay in the Arabian Sea as it is scheduled to leave the Middle East in early December.

Source | ABCNews | Air Force's F-15 Grounding Affects War in Afghanistan

Of course, that doesn't really change the over-all picture much.

Thank you or the warm welcome.

As with anything that I post that concerns the safety of America's courageous military members and the countless family members who serve overseas, it is always the hope that publicly disseminating information that is not on the MSM will help to stave-off any event as heretofore described - and whether they are rumors, or are based in fact, publishing those suspicions makes it harder to carry-out anything that the public will instantly recognize as suspicious if they have been pre-warned, and to me, that's our mission - to protect our troops as well as our country in general.

William Cormier

reply to post by wjcormier


Exactly.

The irony of the situation is that if you dig a little depeer you find that the Russian made Sunburn was initially inefective. It had a bad habit of doubling back and striking the launch point, when it flew at all. With the help of McDonnell Douglas and the United States Navy, under the Krypton Project name, the weapon system was improved and is now able to perform as designed.

Despite this, however, the Sunburn's reputation as invincible is some what overrated. It does not skim the surface as close as many think, it actually aproaches its intended target at aproximately 50m making it detectable by the SPY-1 radar system. Its evasive maneuvers are somewhat limited by its huge size which also effects the infra-red heat signature released by the weapon as it is inbound.

As FredT previously posted there are weapon systems deployed which can neutralize this threat. The Close In Weapons Systems such as the Phalanx are not the first line of defense against a weapon of this sort as the point defence systems such as the ESSM and SAM (Mach 2 derivitives of the Sidewinder) can effectively out-maneuver the Sunburn. The configuration of the carrier battle group must also be taken into consideration as the carrier is centrally located and any incoming attack must penetrate the outer defences. Further more, the weapon system is only as good as its operators. As far as I know the Sunburn has never been deployed in combat so the Iranians will not have any 'real life' experience in its use.

While I find plausibility in the premise that a new 'Pearl Harbor' could be conjured by the destruction of a United States supercarrier and its attendent support vessels I think it is highly unlikely to be a result of government machinations. For the entire 5th fleet to be destroyed, or even a large portion of it, would require a complete failure of technology and training on the defense systems operators of the battle group.



[edit on 10-11-2007 by AugustusMasonicus]

Hmmmm, I'm not sure your information is totally correct. Until a year ago, I lived in Pensacola, Fl., and often fraternized with members of the military from NAS Pensacola. (When I began writing about the Sunburn back then, I was almost immediately placed under surveillance and had to cut-off all ties that I had with friends that were stationed at NAS.)

IF our satellites are tasked prior to any perceived threat, the launch signatures can be picked-up immediately upon launch, however, if they aren't, the Sunburn isn't detected until it crosses the horizon - and impact is mere seconds away. Counter measures are deployed, and computer systems operate the Gatling Guns that are intended to take-out the incoming missiles. The information I received is that a ship may be able to take out one, or possibly two if they are extremely lucky.

The silver lining in the cloud I see is that based on a previous post I just read above this one, we actually helped to make the darn things work - thus we should have technology and a head-start, probably classified, that would mitigate this threat to a large degree, but that's mere speculation and hope on my part. If you consider what the Brits went through in the Falklands via the Exocet, which is hardly a match to the Sunburn, no matter how you parse it, the Sunburn appears to be a major threat to shipping of any type - and that includes our Carriers and support ships.

If I had to hazard a guess, based on what I see on "future-weapons" which I never miss, a possible solution might be the deployment of a micro-wave type array that would essentially fry the missile as it was coming in - effectively destroying its guidance system and possibly causing it to explode prematurely. But, that's placing a lot of trust and hope in our weapons designers, but we know they exist, so we also know that we have to be working on a solution to mitigate their potential danger to our Navy.

William Cormier

...and this comes at a time when we are told that, suddenly, the carriers and their battle fleets are not so invincible after all?

Originally posted by wjcormier
Hmmmm, I'm not sure your information is totally correct. Until a year ago, I lived in Pensacola, Fl., and often fraternized with members of the military from NAS Pensacola. (When I began writing about the Sunburn back then, I was almost immediately placed under surveillance and had to cut-off all ties that I had with friends that were stationed at NAS.)

Not sure if you were addressing me WJ. I am not trying to minimize the effectiveness of the Sunburn, I am only pointing out that it is not a weapons system that is unbeatable.

The problem that the 5th fleet may face from this possible threat is the close quarters situation of the Straits of Hormuz. Reaction time for our anti missile defenses are severly limited by the narrowness of the straits. As a previous poster pointed out the Enterprise battle group as been relocated into the Arabian Sea. In this theater the response time jumps up to 25 to 30 seconds, more than enough time counter an incoming attack from Iranian coastal batteries. Additionally, at this distance there is good reason to believe that our multiple layered missle defenses can defeat the Sunburn in an event where several are deployed at once.

IF our satellites are tasked prior to any perceived threat, the launch signatures can be picked-up immediately upon launch, however, if they aren't, the Sunburn isn't detected until it crosses the horizon - and impact is mere seconds away. Counter measures are deployed, and computer systems operate the Gatling Guns that are intended to take-out the incoming missiles. The information I received is that a ship may be able to take out one, or possibly two if they are extremely lucky.

The Phalanx system is the last line of defense for the battle group and is infact being phased out in favor of the Raytheon SeaRam system. I can not assume the battle status of any carrier group in theater but I can hazard a guess that there will be multiple systems deployed to alert the group of an incoming attack, be they satellite, aircraft or ship based radar and infra-red. I can not imagine us operating 'blind' in the region, especially knowing the Iranians have the Sunburn deployed on the coast.

The silver lining in the cloud I see is that based on a previous post I just read above this one, we actually helped to make the darn things work - thus we should have technology and a head-start, probably classified, that would mitigate this threat to a large degree, but that's mere speculation and hope on my part. If you consider what the Brits went through in the Falklands via the Exocet, which is hardly a match to the Sunburn, no matter how you parse it, the Sunburn appears to be a major threat to shipping of any type - and that includes our Carriers and support ships.

I can not say for certain that we benefitted from the Krypton Program but it would be safe to assume we did. We helped correct its flaws and there for have an idea on how to defeat it. Perhaps it is a situation of allowing the Russians and their customers to believe the Sunburn can destroy the carrier battle group when we actually have a viable defense for it, this is only speculation on my part.

As for the British, if I recall, we alerted them to the threat of the Exocet but it was disregarded. The Phalanx weapons system was a direct result of the effectiveness of the French built Exocet.

If I had to hazard a guess, based on what I see on "future-weapons" which I never miss, a possible solution might be the deployment of a micro-wave type array...so we also know that we have to be working on a solution to mitigate their potential danger to our Navy.

I saw this as well, a very interesting program. I agree with you, our weapons systems engineers are many years ahead of the deployed technology, I am certain they are addresing any threats they may perceive we might face in future engagements.