The Islamic and Christian Attempt to Rule The World

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, that's true. However, I have often wondered what morality originally derived from. Some people claim that people have a natural proclivity to be moral, I don't necessarily think that is empirically true.

Opinion: When in his normal, rested state of mind/body, a human...any human...will naturally act in an ethical way.

How do I arrive at this opinion? Observing people.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I believe in moral autonomy completely. I think the definition of such was severely limited by religion, but overall I think humans want to feel "happy" and would do so naturally.

Nohup, then I'll fight the fight. When all is said and done, I can say, "Lord, I tried." To try and to never succeed is better than not trying at all. Don't you agree,Nohup?

Skyfloating and Deadflags, I guess all of that may be true.. If one reads the NT, it becomes apparent that Jesus viewed people as being, in general, good, gentle, et cetera... I suppose Buddha, did too.

However, when I look at the current state of affairs today, with all of the greed, violence, death and chaos, I can't say that I see that... So, it often just makes me wonder, where did this, in my opinion, increasingly elusive morality come from.

I dont know. I just dont know.

But my approach is to let the fanatics play it out amongst themselves.
While they fight their childish and highly immature wars I am to do my best in acknowledging foreign belief-systems in my private sphere.

ATS is nothing other than that: Thousands of people coming together to practice accepting others beliefs on a mass-scale.

In this sense ATS contributes to mass enlightenment.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I think there's a stark contrast between our reality and the politically reality. We're just trying to get by, they're trying to attain all the power they can. A large part of conflict does stem from religion though, I'll give you that. Cultural differences play into that as well, but I'm wondering if that's not a subsequent issue steming from religion also.

Chicken or the egg discussion probably...

[edit on 2-11-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

But my approach is to let the fanatics play it out amongst themselves.
While they fight their childish and highly immature wars I am to do my best in acknowledging foreign belief-systems in my private sphere.

Me too, Skyfloating, me too. However, when what they are trying to state that their way is "peaceful" and mine is of the "devil," I have to say something. People who believe as I do have never started wars and certainly have never had any crusades or inquisitions outside of the imaginations of the conspiracy theorists.

Just to co-conspire to push this thread back to the top of the list...


What frustrates me is that threads like these are mostly appreciated by people who see through it in the first place and will hardly suffice to convert a fanatic. A fanatic will see facts as an attack on his belief and use information like this to strengthen and perpetuate his insanity.

Its almost futile. I say "Hey...might you re-consider your position or calm down on it?" - Answer: "You are the devil talking to me".

Just saying you're a Christian doesn't make it so and blaming Christians for the worlds problems is just ridiculous. I will tell you that the societal problems that face America are more caused by a falling off of Faith and morality.

I'm not a fan of Religion and yes people have done terrible things in the past in the name of religion because they twist it up and force their own interpretation onto it. I am not a Christian of religion but of Faith.

For every real Christian on ATS making a point there are 5 Atheist/Agnostics there to attack. Spewing hatred and spitting in the face of my God and my Faith. As I've said, I would rather you call me every name you can think of than to attack my God/Faith.

I've never forced anything on anyone but as a Christian that cares about the souls of everyone I want nothing more than to have them saved. I've never cornered anyone and have done my best not to name call or insult anyone regarding any serious issue such as this. I have made my feelings known about the practices of some extremists and I do from time to time joke and ride people a little but those are most often issues that are not serious.

I'll be the first one to tell you that I have many faults and although I have studied the Bible for quite a long time I still am no expert in scripture. What bothers me is people who like to quote the Bible and attack scripture like they know the book when they obviously don't. If I am no expert reading it every day and looking to Bible scholars on a regular basis then how is it that someone who seldom even cracks it open is suddenly a Bible genius?

I'll be honest, it wears on me having to defend my Faith on a regular basis. At least respect my beliefs enough to do some real research and not just from the propagandistic hater sites.

If you show me and my Faith respect, I will most certainly do the same. In fact I will most likely try to understand you even if you don't show respect. I'm not going to hold a sign outside an abortion clinic that says "Baby Killer" on it but I will most certainly be there to support a confused young girl and her unborn baby.

I am of a Faith not a religion and that Faith has love at it's root. If someone is doing or saying something that just feels wrong in your heart then odds are they are just twisting and spinning my Faith into a religion I want no part of.

I apologize for being a bit erratic and less than efficient in my text and I know I didn't address the entire subject as I'm somewhat tired tonight but I will say that I direct this at no one specifically.

As always it's JMO and as always everyone has the freedom to decide what they wish to believe.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Hate to be the little ray of disagreement but here it goes....

Crusades

****statement retracted on the fact I posted impuslively****
**though not the statements made in the post above**

[edit on 2-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by jbondo


I think he made it pretty clear who he was "blaming" and it was only a small minority of both faiths. He's not saying he's anymore righteous than anyone else..

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


(gave you a star speaker, good post)

It is a religious war, but the terrorists made it that way.

The Islamic Jihadists decided to flaunt their Radical Islamicness as their "battle flag" for all to see them as and know them as, and they decided to adopt their militant suicide tactics, and they decided to perpetrate all the bombings which they have done on US, UK, and European soil. Thats not to mention the Middle East *at all*, much less Asia.

So once Al-Qaeda and all its' affiliates and allies declared war on the west, they made it a religious war by default. They made it a religious war by declaring it on us, and doing so because of who we are: Christians, Jews, and other Non-Muslims.

If I were unfortunate enough to be in a combat situation in the military, I would hold my Faith extremely close, being ready to die at any moment. And also, when engaging Islamic fighters who were attacking me or whom I had evidence were doing some very evil stuff, I would see myself as dishing out God's justice on their evil, despicable arses. Their very beliefs are a threat to all civilized nations of the world. And they kill exclusively in the name of God, claim authority to kill anyone they like through God. At least the USA doesn't invoke God when saying they have the authority to bomb their enemy.

[edit on 11/3/2007 by runetang]

You know, the more I think about it, it's almost an "unholy war" at this point, and heres why. Although many of the western peoples involved have religions, alot of them dont, and alot them dont practice the religion much or think much of it, or hold it close to them. So one could say it is a war between the Radical Muslims and the NON-BELIEVERS.. hahaha .. but what sucks is, us Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Pagans all get lumped into the same "enemy" column as the non-believers.

So really it is Radical Islam versus ALL if you really get down to it..

[edit on 11/3/2007 by runetang]

reply to post by runetang


Sometimes, I really regret reading your posts. You seem like a really nice dude and all, but you're just so oblivious that it's sad.

Dont forget that by far most people that died were muslims killed by fellow muslims.

reply to post by tomcat ha




It's Christians.

I doubt it would be any different concerning any other religion. This is partially due to the 600 year jump Christianity has on Islam, I'm sure. Modernization came too fast for them to effectively outdue one another. Christianity is such a far reaching religion, you have to consider The Americas, all of Europe, and even the middle east at one time. I'm not saying one is better than the other, it just is what it is.

As usual in threads like this, the apologists will show up and say "hey, its not the religions that are evil, its what people make of it".

Of course the apologists will say that. They wouldnt want to admit that they have been studying, rehearsing, preaching and getting emotionally involved with something for decades only to find out they have bought into something less than integral, less than beautiful and less than enriching.

In the essence and core of the issue its not the people who are evil but what they have been taught. Each and every religion teaches "You are right, others wrong. You will go to heaven, others wont". Thats brainwashing. Thats pure evil.

The christians and muslims who are moderate and good are not so because of their religion but in spite of it.

Do your research. And when you find out what religion is all about, dont go around aplogizing or justifying it but admit: "maybe this is all a huge scam. Maybe I have been wrong all these years. I will now burn my bible and become an integrated and responsible being of society...

...I will no longer walk around trying to change other peoples beliefs or attempt to convert them, but instead set a shining example of godliness in my own ways"

reply to post by WraothAscendant


My point is, what other religions have done such things? Look hard... You'll have to. I'll be waiting.



[edit on 3-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by runetang

You know, the more I think about it, it's almost an "unholy war" at this point, and heres why. Although many of the western peoples involved have religions, alot of them dont, and alot them dont practice the religion much or think much of it, or hold it close to them. So one could say it is a war between the Radical Muslims and the NON-BELIEVERS.. hahaha .. but what sucks is, us Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, and Pagans all get lumped into the same "enemy" column as the non-believers.

So really it is Radical Islam versus ALL if you really get down to it..

[edit on 11/3/2007 by runetang]

True... Because I don't agree with all of the doctrines of Christianity or in the fact that the institution is participating in a renewed crusade, "Christians" want to label me a non-believer. I am far from being a non-believer. Where did Christ ever say to make war? Did he say war would come? Yes he did. However, that is a far cry from making it.

As far as redical Islam is concerned, well, what can I say. It is trecherous and, whether we want to admit it or not, they are the ones who cast the first stone, the destruction of the WTC... We can get into all of the conspiratorial theories about how much our government knew, yada, yada....However, I still think that the ones who we said did it, are the ones who did it, regardless of whether our government knew it was going to happen or not.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by tomcat ha


So, that makes it any different? Look at the inquisition... There were Christians killing Christians because they didn't all believe the same way. What you are saying is no different. It is still an effort by a faction of that religion to maintain the power it feels slipping from its grasp.



[edit on 3-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]