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Originally posted by magestyk7
Have you guys seen this, it's interesting and I guess it takes curent engines and runs it on 100% water.
www.youtube.com...
Also what do you guys think of this
www.youtube.com...
www.envbike.com...
“According to aerodynamic laws, the bumblebee cannot fly. Its body weight is not the right proportion to its wingspan. Ignoring these laws, the bee flies anyway.”
- M. Sainte-Lague
Originally posted by starstuck
Please go into more detail, a man called John Kanzius from Florida has recently stumbled across another method of doing it and I think he might need some support in order to get it out there.
Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by MurderSmurf
What evidence do you have to label Meyer and Klein as scams?
Meyer is now dead himself isn't he, so I guess it will be posthumously that he'll be vindicated or finally nailed as a scam.
But please share your insights, as it is always helpful to eliminate the FE contenders from my research list.
Originally posted by MurderSmurf
Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by MurderSmurf
What evidence do you have to label Meyer and Klein as scams?
Well, I could start with high school Chemistry.
In a perfect process, it takes 285kJ of energy per mole to dissociate liquid water into a mole of hydrogen and a half-mole of water. 285kJ/mol is also what you get when you recombine the two. This is, of course in a perfect environment, which does not exist. So even in a perfect world, you only get as much energy back from the H2O → 2(H2) + O2 → H2O process as you put into it.
And of course the real world is far from perfect, so you’ll be wasting some energy. (I have heard, that the best electrolysis processes out there are about 80% efficient, meaning that you would have to spend 356kJ for every 285kJ you get back.)
Long story short, the net effect of a “hydrogen booster” on your car would be to waste electricity, producing a load on your alternator, which in turn produces extra load on your engine, which will reduce your gas mileage rather than increase it.
Originally posted by Freezer
So you are saying because you can't produce 100% efficiency with the conversion it is a scam?
The typical gas engine in the U.S. averages 20%...I guess gas engines must be a scam too?
And you are talking about wasting energy lol, look at the gas engine, most of the fuel goes out the tail pipe!
The energy it takes to electrolyse water has nothing to do with whether water can be turned into hydrogen and used as a fuel-source..Does it honestly?
I'm not talking about efficiency here, but simply can it be done, and can a engine use hydrogen or alternative sources to turn a rotor? If we can electrolyse water using water batteries, solar, wind, etc, how much energy are you personally inputting into the system?
www.youtube.com...
bingofuel.online.fr...
www.youtube.com...
Originally posted by MurderSmurf
Originally posted by RogerT
reply to post by MurderSmurf
What evidence do you have to label Meyer and Klein as scams?
Well, I could start with high school Chemistry.
In a perfect process, it takes 285kJ of energy per mole to dissociate liquid water into a mole of hydrogen and a half-mole of water. 285kJ/mol is also what you get when you recombine the two. This is, of course in a perfect environment, which does not exist. So even in a perfect world, you only get as much energy back from the H2O → 2(H2) + O2 → H2O process as you put into it.
The basic cycle of using water for fuel is described in the following two equations, familiar to every high school student of Chemistry:
H2O Electrolysis + 249.68 Btu Delta G ==> H2 + (1/2)O2 per mole of water (1 mole = 18 gms.). (1)
This means that it requires 249.688 Btu of energy (from electricity) to break water by electrocal fission into the gases hydrogen and oxygen.
H2 and (1/2)O2 === catalyst ===> H2O - Delta H 302.375 Btu per mole of water. (2)
This means that 302.375 Btu of energy (heat or electricity) will be released when the gases, hydrogen and oxygen, combine. The end product (the exhaust) from this reaction is water. Note that more energy (under ideal conditions) is released from combining the gases than is used to free them from water. It is know that under ideal conditions it is possible to get some 20% more energy out of reaction (2) above, then it takes to produce the gases of reaction (1) above.
Originally posted by Furnace_Man
Water can actually be taken apart with very little energy. It all has to do with resonating at the right frequency.
Hit it with a 600 hz audio tone on a roughly 15 khz carrier wave and you pretty much have it licked. All except for the fine tuning. This all will happen with just milliamps of current. Waaaaay less than you get out of it in the end. It's very very efficient, I'm just too poor to make it happen very fast. But I'm working on it. Which is more than most people can say.
Originally posted by Furnace_Man
Are you saying that following the Puharich work, you have succeeded in building a system that electolyses water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, and that the burning of the resultant gases produces more energy than that which was used in the electrolysis process?
Quite simply, Yes.
Originally posted by MurderSmurf
reply to post by RogerT
I’m not sure if you understand me.
I haven’t changed my position.
Originally posted by RogerT
Originally posted by MurderSmurf
reply to post by RogerT
I’m not sure if you understand me.
I haven’t changed my position.
OK, yes I have misunderstood you.
First you write: "So even in a perfect world, you only get as much energy back from the H2O → 2(H2) + O2 → H2O process as you put into it.", then you write "Yes, I agree that it is theoretically possible to get more energy from one side of the process than you used on the other side – under ideal conditions."
You can see how that would make someone think you had changed your position on at least a part of the issue, especially as that was the reasoning you gave to label Meyer (and presumably the ideas behind this thread) as a scam.
Originally posted by MurderSmurf
Do you think the ideal conditions for one side are the same as for the other?
Originally posted by RogerT
Now, if we can agree that one again
perhaps we can continue looking at the other assumptions you are making. Is it possible these are also based on inaccurate information that you could be pursuaded to change your position on, if I can supply you with an alternative view from an authoritative source?