Best Evidence

reply to post by Azriphale


I really appreciate the effort, I really do, but I fail to see the evidence.

I'm talking about wires and detonators at WTC, and missile fragments at the pentagon.

there are 1,987,348 threads dealing with all the issues. I'm simply asking conspiracy believers to present the physical and tangible evidence here

if there isn't any, lets just close the thread

[edit on 28-10-2007 by syrinx high priest]

reply to post by syrinx high priest


What solid, tangible evidence has your government shown you to believe the official story? So if you, by lack of solid evidence, don't believe in conspiracies, you shouldn't buy the official story either.

how can we present evidence without presenting links?

and what say you about the thermite evidence I presented?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
reply to post by Azriphale

 

I really appreciate the effort, I really do, but I fail to see the evidence.
I'm talking about wires and detonators at WTC, and missile fragments at the pentagon.
there are 1,987,348 threads dealing with all the issues. I'm simply asking conspiracy believers to present the physical and tangible evidence here
[edit on 28-10-2007 by syrinx high priest]

You ask us to present evidence without using links, on an internet forum. This is ridiculous.

You ask only to present wires and detonators, when there is no possible way anyone could get there hands on this stuff, unless they are a government employee.
This is ridiculous.

You ignore all video evidence.
this is ridiculous.

You ignore my posted link offering evidence of thermite used in the towers.
this is ridiculous.

I think the evidence lies in the things we haven't been shown. I feel there is a conspiracy because of the things that have been ignored.

I would like a release of all the Pentagon cameras. I would like to see the film taken from the "Dancing Israeli's." I would like to know more about that entire story. I would like to know more about Able Danger from the people who were operating it. I would like to hear the information Sibel Edmonds has. I would like to know why the warnings from FBI agents were stonewalled. I would like to know what the order was that was given by Cheney per Norman Mineta's testimony to the Commission. Was Norad's admitted confusion deliberate? I would like to see full disclosure on the War Games running the morning of 9/11. Did the war games radar blips interfere? I would like to know who actually financed 9/11. I would like to know who planned 9/11. I would like to know what is in the 28 omitted pages from the Commission Report. I think an "individual" testimomy with notes and recorders allowed from members of the White House and an explination for why this wasn't the case the first time would be appropriate. I think the conflicts of interest of the Commission participants should be brought out. I would like to discuss the PNAC and it's members' document Rebuilding America's Defenses.

These and many other questions point to a cover-up. And a cover-up points at the guilty.

Originally posted by syrinx high 4priest
reply to post by ANOK

 

click on my sig..case closed...

LOL popular mechanics? That's what you use for your 'truth'?

Yeah, you definitely need a copy of 'Physics for Dummies'...

Their attempt at selling you the official story does not even cover the many physics problems with a global collapse caused by a jet fuel fire. It might be easy to believe, if you really want to believe, and don't bother really checking any further but it sure as hell doesn't explain how 3 buildings fell with no resistance to the ground from fires not hot enough to cause steel to fail.

Forget pop mech and all the other people out there trying to sell you a story, when even the NIST report itself doesn't explain what really happened.
Pop mech took a forgone conclusion and made their 'research' fit that conclusion. If you knew anything about physics you would see the official story, whoevers version, does not work in the real world.

The Hears corporation is not on your side...

Where is your one piece of evidence that fires caused three building to defy physics and globally collapse? I don't expect one because what you're asking for is pretty stupid, no crime this complex can be proved either way with one piece of evidence.

[edit on 28/10/2007 by ANOK]

reply to post by Vipassana


All I'm asking for is what physical evidence the conspiracy theories are based on.

Feel free to link a site that shows missile fragments at the pentagon. Feel free to link to a site that shows blasting caps and detonators from WTC. Feel free to link to a site that has physical evidence of what happened to the crew and passengers of flight #77.

reply to post by ANOK


Like I said, link wars is not what I'm after. I could include debunking911.com or a dozen others if I wanted. We could be here for another 6 years, and I'd have a link for everyone of yours.

I'm hoping at some point someone will be able to show me the physical evidence the conspiracy is based on

I mean, considering the scope of the conspiracy, that should be easy

I would use this as evidence:

The planes that hit the towers were about 150 tons.

The towers themselves were about 500,000 tons. MUCH bigger and heavier than a built-to-be-lightweight bird like an airplane.

In other words, airplanes and buildings are so different in terms of strength of construction, it's like throwing an aluminum can at a brick wall. Maybe at 400 mph you could knock out a brick, but overall, the wall doesn't care.

Just one of the 47 three-story columns weighed more than that jet.

Also,

Thermodynamic calculations show that even if all the fuel on the plane and flammable office materials are considered, there was not enough heat energy delivered to the structures in question to raise their temperature enough to significantly weaken them.

Steel, glass and concrete have well-known specific heats. Add up that material in the region, divide by the energy available and you have the temperature increase. The temperature didn't get much hotter than your baking oven: hot for a human, but nothing in terms of weakening steel. And this is when making a worst-case estimation, neglecting heat that escapes ouside the building, and the tendency for the steel structure to act as a huge heat sink, wicking away that energy into the rest of the building.

Knowing the physics and mathematics of the situation is enough to prove that they couldn't have come down simply because of the airplanes.

Again, I ask a simple honest question, does this look like a fire related collapse?



How much evidence, physical or otherwise, do you need to contradict what should be common sense?

Hey syrinx high priest !!!!!!

www.european911citizensjury.com...

I would like to ask you how the other buildings in the background managed to stay upright despite two towers falling down all over them when WTC7 imploded inwards on itself and fell neatly into its own basement?
I would put it to you now to find me evidence of a multi story building similar in size to WTC7 that has collapsed due to a small fire that was contained on only a floor or so that was only present for a few hours?
Also tell me how a BBC Journalist was reporting the collapse of WTC7 some 20mins before it had actually collapsed?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
Here'e the premise for the thread;

An international commission has been called to put 9/11 on trial, including Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Blair. The heads of state of every nation on earth are there to hear the testimony.

But there's a catch

The rules have changed so that the only admissable evidence must be tangible, or physical. It must be something you can see, touch, hear or smell.

And

You are only allowed one piece of evidence to present.[edit on 28-10-2007 by syrinx high priest]

Do we gat a time machine to cellect the thing? Maybe the molten meteor at WTC? The remote control pods? What if you go back for something but it didn't exist? Do you only get one chance?

Barring time travel tho... can you subpoena anything hidden anywhere? And again, is this like FOIA where you already have to know what you want and that it exists? And could you keep asking until you'd found something real? A printed stand-down order would be neat, if it ever existed.

Barring special subpoena powers and time travel, some single thing we could see, touch, smell... I dunno, goat cheese?

This is the "Insanity stage" I would call it. People have been divided - There are two groups -
One group is with the leaders... The other group is about to be out.

The people who still are with the Leaders in anything these leaders say are safe in the sense that they are happy and ignorant - Even feelings of being bliss-full.
Their world never really changed after 911.

And those who see it all in a bigger picture - are sad outraged and feels completely lost on this planet.

These days - Are mental-terror.

I once was ignorant - and I think many people use to be like I was - I had no idea what this world was on about. I was happy - cheerful - felt free - And everything was good.
Today I see how people generally MIMIC what the media shows on screen. And I know what that strange feeling was, that I could not recognize in my early days.
that the atmosphere in my society was part of the media corporations. I didn't know.... I didn't know how much the media influenced my mind.

And now - the end is near. People are gone and those who are left act like robots. I cannot speak my mind to anyone anymore -
I don't have this sense of being me - being free. It's all gone - I made a choice - To look at things with MY OWN EYES... not the common sense eyes...

I worry about this planets future - And all the mental-prisons - tax gardens that will be created - I will perish - die - and leave this place disturbed of what I saw here...

Blind people everywhere.

The evidence is in your skull... The way they told you what you think...
But you can wake up - And see what many people see -

Happy biological machines.

I would even go so far like this..

When I die - And leave planet with all it's glorious ignorance...
And robot-people.

PLEASE DON'T SPREAD OUT INTO THE GALAXY...
Destroy the Earth - fine with me - Self destruct yourself - it's okay..

But don't spread out into the universe..With all your mindless things - You should just stay here and do your daily things... have babies and make the system run you to hell.


thanks.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
so the best evidence the conspiracy believers have is a video ?

there honestly hasn't been one shred of physical evidence found ?

I'm not interested in video wars or link wars here. As you can see in my sig I have a video or link that debunks any of yours, so that is pointless.

You mean to tell me people still believe in this theory 6 years later, and there isn't a molecule of physical evidence to back it up ?

After 6 years ?

Easy there big fella! You just posted this thread within the last few days. Dont expect a rush of replies to flood in so quickly. Also give the people time to present thier case with a "single-piece" of evidence as challenged.

Here is my attempt... The security camera footage of the Pentagon.
Are we seriously to believe THIS is the only and best security footage of this event at one of the most secure structures in our nation? No way!

Why dont they show ANY footage by the exterior pointing Pentagon Security Cameras which line the exterior wall of the building?

Without a doubt those cameras captured the true event. So if the government wants to silence the 911 truthers... why dont they release the security cam footage which proves their "true" story?

I rest my case.


[edit on (10/29/07) by AllSeeingI]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
reply to post by Vipassana

 

All I'm asking for is what physical evidence the conspiracy theories are based on.

Feel free to link a site that shows missile fragments at the pentagon. Feel free to link to a site that shows blasting caps and detonators from WTC. Feel free to link to a site that has physical evidence of what happened to the crew and passengers of flight #77.

God did you fall in the irony bowl as a kid or what ?
You dont have any evidence for your case either, yet you feel justified in scrutinising your opposition for evidence ? some cheek.

You speak as if you're winning this conversation, but believe me you're not. You have'nt even said one thing to strengthen your case, instead you keep insisting on hard evidence. Then to top it all, you deny all video evidence, but you have video evidence proving your case IN YOUR SIGNATURE ? ...you're about as logical and fair in this post as the govt behind the entire 9/11 incident.

If this is a stand off, and there is no physical evidence.. shall we move to the next best thing ? - this is how it would work in a real court case anyway. Let us look at probable cause ? ...

What cause on earth would Osama Bin Laden have for attacking America at its heart ? .. The reasons he is said to have done it for have now only become worse! More USA control in his country... pfff he doesnt seem THAT stupid to me, he did afterall get past the strongest military power in the world... multiple times.

On the other hand... lets chat about Enron shall we ? what happened to all the evidence that was in WTC7 ? what a shame... it was destroyed...
What about the fact that Hitler the 2nd is now able to tighten the screws on the USA. You guys are losing your freedom, Hitler did the same thing the same way. I could go on, the list of reasons the govt had to attack is very large, whereas almost ridiculous for Al Qaeda.

Why not read the testimonies of the IT manager who worked in the WTC, he explains how work was done the weekend just before the attack - all security was disabled for the weekend.... thermite planted at the foundations perhaps ?

I'm waiting for you to provide some evidence, until then, stop whinging to us about evidence, thats a little hypocritical wouldnt you agree ?

I would probably have to go with the meteorite as something physical that could shed some doubt on the official story if presented correctly. I would also want some tests run on that thing.


Fused concrete and steel created by temperatures as hot as the 'core of the earth' or the 'surface of the sun' as quoted by journalists.

Weilders, architects, engineers, construction workers have all said they have never seen this level of destruction and deprivation to these materials in their lifes.

The cars were pretty interesting physical specimens also. Notice the oxidization to the front? Do collapsing buildings rust near by vehicles instantly?





If we compare the WTC to a underground nuclear bomb test we can instantly recognise the similarities..



Kobar Bombing involved about 10,000 pounds of explosives, it looked very similiar to the OKC bombing, which in turn looked very similiar to the destruction to wtc6.


Comparing Murrah Bombing to WTC6 damage bares some striking similarities.



[edit on 29-10-2007 by Insolubrious]

AllSeeingI is right.

If it has to be one piece of evidence the confiscated and still sequestered camera view from the Citgo station showing the plane on the north side would do it.

Since that was likely destroyed we can simply use the corroborated eyewitness testimony which is valid evidence admissible in any court of law even if it isn't "physical".



1 first-hand eyewitness account is evidence.
2 independently corroborated eyewitness accounts is strong evidence.
3 independently corroborated eyewitness accounts is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

We have 6.

Done deal.

Proof of military deception.

Time to clean up capitol hill and restore the republic.

I think the best piece of actual physical evidence that the government can provide is the highjacker's passport that just flew out of his pocket survived the giant fireball and all that jet fuel, and it just went floating onto the streets of NYC to be found, so he could be easily identified.

And people still wonder why so many people question the "official story"!! Ask people which is easier to believe, the story of the passport found on the streets of NYC, or that the buildings (especially WTC 7) collapsed due to explosives.

syrinx, you are a complete fool. why do you keep saying "so the truth movement is based off of zero evidence?" now, how do you expect any of us to have in our hands a piece of evidence from the any of the WTC buildings? or from the pentagon? do you think we mosied on up to the pentagon and started picking up pieces? there is at least 1 piece of tangible evidence- that is the THERMATE found on the steel recovered from the debris. do you know what thermate is? it is used in controlled demolishion. Stephen Jones found this evidence, but now his credibility has been destroyed by those who would not want this evidence to be sustainable, in the event that your imaginary court case happened in reality. it wouldnt matter anyways becuase the judge and jury would be bought i imagine.