House Passes "Thought Crime" Prevention Bill

I think now is the time for change. We can't keep allowing these people to take inch after inch. Eventually there'll be nothing left.

But I guess the problem is, how do we organize change? How does it get started? Who has to step up, and what do they have to do, to get enough people to commit to change?

We've advanced so much technologically from 1776, we're able to get the word out much easier, but I think for that step forward in technology, we've taken about twenty steps back in commitment to a just cause. You're just not going to find many George Washington's or Thomas Jefferson's today.

We don't have a real leader, and probably never will.

The way I see it, our only hope is the military. They are our VERY LAST chance. When we get to that infamous day where we truly become a dictatorship; when that last freedom is taken, when the last nerve of Americans is stepped on, the decision by the military to either follow orders, or defend this country and it's freedoms from enemies foreign and domestic, will be the proverbial 'moment of truth' for what direction this country will take, and what future this country will have.

A promising sign is that we still have people in the military who are good people. We still have people in the military who love this country and it's freedoms. We have people in the military who have families, and they'd essentially be damning their families futures by following orders. And a positive sign is the overwhelming support from military personnel that Ron Paul has received. Not to sound biased as a Ron Paul supporter, and not trying to promote Ron Paul, but it shows that the military is for the non-interventionist government, and for liberty.

We can only hope that they'll take our side. Without the military on it's side, this government doesn't stand a chance.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Maybe I have a little too much faith, but I believe there are plenty of patriots left in America who are itching to lead the cause.

The problem is, how do you organize without being caught and cut down before you have the numbers and power to accomplish anything? One of the first things they did in this "War on Liberty" was to tap into our means of communication. The one benefit the founding fathers had over us was their ability to organize in secret. Is there anywhere anymore that we can truly meet in secret and plan?

Still, that doesn't mean it can't happen. It just has to be thought out properly.

As far as the military goes, WHEN the dictatorship becomes public, I can't help but think they'll be on our side. I have a feeling that the government scum that are ruining this country know that as well, otherwise we'd already be under a true dictatorship.


Jasn


EDIT TO ADD: Let me be the first (maybe) to give you an early happy 20th Novus. Hope it's a great one for you.

[edit on 26-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

At least during the Nixon years we could get a tyrant impeached.

Given that the US Constitution in Article III Section 3 defines treason as levying war against the United States, and that the Federal Government has committed numerous overt acts of aggression against US Citizens (such as warrantless domestic surveillance, extra-judicial prosecutions, violations of habeas corpus, and entrapment) under the guise of a War on Terror, a whole lot of people in the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches ought to be in a whole lot of hot water by now.

And given that the Declaration of Independence asserts that "when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government," HR 1955 seems especially troubling.

H.R. 1955: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 might sound innocuous enough, but the bill contains a number of provisions that bely a disconcerting subtext.

SEC. 899D. declares that "The Secretary of Homeland Security shall establish or designate a university-based Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism in the United States." Beyond the fact that I do not trust the DHS, I distrust the aggressive colonization of Universities on the part of the Federal Government. The same section also states that the Center shall "utilize theories, methods and data from the social and behavioral sciences to better understand the origins, dynamics, and social and psychological aspects of violent radicalization and homegrown terrorism." Is this where all the illegal data collected by the National Security Agency will end up?

I furthermore find it somewhat ironic that SEC. 889B. states "The Internet has aided in facilitating violent radicalization, ideologically based violence, and the homegrown terrorism process in the United States by providing access to broad and constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda to United States citizens." The US government invented the Internet, and since Bush took office, the government has day and night fed citizens constant streams of terrorist-related propaganda.

As the Bill has already passed the House, perhaps we'll get to see whether the proposed Center of Excellence for the Study of Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism recommends re-instituting Constitutional checks and balances, ending the economic exploitation of citizens, educating the populace, accountability at the highest levels of government, providing accessible healthcare on par with that of other industrialized nations, dismantling the prison industry, lobbying reform, curtailing media manipulation, providing for the well being of veterans, ending the abuse of the National Guard, ending senseless armed conflicts that drain the nation's resources, ending corporate fascism, ending American imperialism, taking care of the environment, and the like.

Congress is useless, and the Judiciary is as abusive as the Executive. Where does this leave us?

liberties...when did Americans have all of these liberties when i read all of the pretty words it makes it sound like America in the past was the gold standard for liberty.

The only group that really lost anything is the white male. 150 years ago a white male could own some black people and slap his wife around when she talked the crazy talk about wanting a vote or a job.

Since every race, religion, sex are just about equal now i would say in the big picture of life, America is probably the freest it's ever been

Yes we are taxed too much and the culture is way to PC, but what time period would you say is freer then now?

ps

the congress that write and passes all the laws is a democratic lead congress. i only read one post that mentions Democrats and there are a bunch that talks about bush/fox news. please no fox new talk...republicans equal fox news, Democrats equal CNN, and 7 people watch MSNBS so we won't mention them...

Originally posted by anhinga

Agreed about demonstrations/protests x the U.S. in the face of this surely to pass sooner then later. Seems like 'homegrown' terror could be used against the people for anything.

You all are ignoring this verbage- "the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. "

The language of that Bill isn't just with regards to the Government. The way I read it is - if someone from/living in the USA is planning to use violence against the Government, or the citizenry, to further a political(or other) goal, then they fall under the category Domestic Terrorist.


[edit on 26-10-2007 by BlueRaja]

reply to post by yahn goodey


yahn goodey,

The Internet is already being censored in the United States.

Comcast has been using its network to send fake data packets that terminate Bittorrent transfers.
www.eff.org...

Verizon attempted to block text messages dealing with abortion issues.
www.nytimes.com...

MySpace filters routes links through a server that hides URLs so MySpace links don't interfere with Google rankings.
www.askdavetaylor.com...

And let's not forget everybody's favorite form of Internet censorship: spam filters (how would you feel if the US Post Office scrutinized your mail like your ISP does your email?)

Step by step, "feature" by "feature," boiling the frog...


[edit on 26-10-2007 by America Jones]

reply to post by DCP


Please don't turn this thread into some kind of race issue. If that's what you want, there are plenty of threads out there devoted to just that. Go and have at 'em.

As far as I can tell, this bill hurts people of EVERY race that reside within the borders of the United States. When they start locking people up over this, you can't bet race won't play much of a factor.


Jasn

reply to post by America Jones


If Congress is the one passing these Bills, aren't they the ones you really have an issue with. Bush is in the Executive Branch, not the Legislative Branch. How can you cite what Congress is doing as something you can impeach Bush over?

When the very men who founded this nation and its principles, become criminals for those principles, that nation is no more.

Make me a criminal, make me a terrorist through your laws, it will be an honor to be held in the same regard as those brave men who gave us all the spirit of resistance, the ideals of what is truly American.

I make no apologies for my stance, I won't hide from it, I will stand by it to the end whenever that end should come, I will not stand by in silence while these usurpations continue to go unchecked.

things such as this continue to be passed not because of terrorists, but because our government knows that though it lies dormant the people still preserve the spirit of resistance, let them fear the people.

reply to post by SimiusDei

Very true but the sad things is, if someone did act, if someone did say enough, and finally took up armed defense of this nation from this tyranny, they would be labeled terrorists obviously but not only that, those very people who claim to support such action would turn on them and say (they don't represent what we stand for) no one would take up arms to help the few who did, they would turn on them and say this isn't the time not now, they aren't the ones to follow they are no different then terrorists...

The thing is, no one wants to accept the dirty truth, revolution wont be a walk in the park, it wont be clean, it wont be glorious, it wont be nice, it will be bloody, it will be treturous, innocent people will die and patriots will fall, there will be no clear good or bad, people will die nice people your friends, your family, your neighbors, the cop or security guard who's a good guy but choose the wrong side.

It wont be black or white, it will be shades of gray, there will be no clear good or evil, just sides.

Liberty or death.

you wont be fighting the SS or some big evil entity, you'll be fighting your friends, your neighbors, your family
those who cant or wont accept that sad truth, lay down your arms now, because thats how it is, don't believe some bs dream about saving the day or doing a great thing, because i promise you this should revolution come, should you take up arms, you will most certainly do things you'll regret things you would that never thought you were capable of doing, things, things we now consider evil.


[edit on 26-10-2007 by C0le]

reply to post by C0le


The problem these days, not only in the US, is that even peaceful protest, without the prerequisite permits, is against the law and will be stamped out.
How many times recently have we seen YouTube video of peaceful protesters being charged by mounted police, tasered, pepper sprayed etc? Far too many unfortunately.

When peaceful protest is even unlawful then that just leaves force.
The populations are so dumbed down and compliant these days it's going to take a lot to get them to disobey authority and be seen as unpatriotic, having had it drummed into them that patriotism is loyalty to the state, right or wrong.
Whether the police would open fire on unarmed, unmoving and defiant protesters remains to be seen but it has happened before. A couple of planted provocateurs in their midst firing a few shots in the air causing panic and return fire from law enforcement would probably be enough to create a snowball effect of unrest, curfews and martial law (Blackwater deputies sweeping the streets for offenders?).

The government fears the people above all else. If the people get organised then the game is up for the leadership, and they know this only too well.

reply to post by Britguy


Exactly, and that's exactly what they are trying to stop. They are preventing any logical way we have to organize without us being found out beforehand. The only unmonitored means of communication we have left are face to face and even that's not a certainty.

Orwell was only 2 decades early.


Jasn

If someone suggests online a violent opposition to a government, they are likely not going to go through with it. They are merely expressing (exaggerating) their anger towards that government.

If someone DOES intend to do damage (such as a sniper attack on the white house), they wouldn't be broadcasting their plans out in the open. The government would not hear of it, and the attack would be carried out.


Basically, they are silencing and criminalizing those who are angry with the government, NOT those who actually intend to do harm.


"You have freedom, you have the freedom to support your government, or the freedom to rot in jail."

"I pledge alligeance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God indivisibal with liberty and justice for all"

With all the Fox blow hards; Hannity, O'Rielly, Ann, you know the usual suspects always hollering about our right to say the pledge in our classrooms being taken away, what are they really complaining about, it doesn't mean anything anymore! A) We are no longer a republic...B) liberty and justice for all hasn't happened in DECADES!

This bill is another example of everything that is wrong with our country! No Republic, no Liberty, no Justice. It's sick. And for the record I WILL NOT be standing up against our government, I feel it will be pointless. I would rather move to another country and pledge allegience to THEIR flag, it's gotta be better than ours!

I'm off now to hit the bars and check out some hot guys, while I still can in this (cough, cough) free country of ours.

I was thinking, if they've made violent opposition illegal, what about absolute pacification?

Needless to say, the US government is dangerously close to having to re-start the draft.
When the call comes, simply answer, "nah, too lazy".

Government workers who are tired of your job, don't quit... become so incredibly incompetent and lazy, they get dragged down a bit before you're gone.

Next time you're at a presidential rally, look bored, and repeatedly state "I don't care." or "Whatever, lets go find a bar"

Essentially, through pacifism, make the government look like a total joke.

The government may be the controlling system, but without you the body to control, they are worthless.

reply to post by johnsky


What about this? We don't vote, the next Presidential election, we all just STAY HOME, I know we could never organize something like that, but how great would it be to show that we have no faith in the two choices we are given. Wait that won't work, that would mean Mr. Bush would stay in office, nevermind, I got ahead of myself.

reply to post by Cowgirlstraitup7


We should all vote in the primaries and vote for Ron Paul to help him get the nomination for Republican.

If he doesn't, then we should all do write in votes and write in Ron Paul.

Well, read all this stuff. As I said before, Realistically, this bill by itself doesn't do anything, but give some funding to a group chosen by the government, and give funding to a university. That being said, when the results of its findings come through in 18 months, thats the time to talk about this, because thats when the results will come through.

This being said, Anyone who is fool enough to open fire on police or army deserve what they get. Additionally, it is against the law for security guards to violate your rights, and thats exactly what black water is. They are not the military, they don't answer to them, nor do they answer to the local government. They answer to who hired them, and thats the reason why they should not be used by ANY part of our government. They are mercs, answerable only to there ceo. This being said, GOD HELP the S.O.B. that puts a gun in my face. Last one to do it, walked funny for the rest of his life. This being said, I think I stand for any american, when I say MERCs would not be allowed in my town, and I would bring it to a town hall forum to have them vote to have these people removed, additionally, I would involve the local law enforcement, as well as the state troopers to remove these individuals, if that fails, there is the office of your representative. Finally, IF these people are commiting atrocites, then it is our responsibility to remove them by force. That being said, I think I stand as average joe american. Most don't want to hurt these guys, but will when pushed.

On other thoughts, Freedom in America is alive and well, the problem is it has been corrupted by major corporations and lobbists. Get the CORP's and lobbist out of Washington, and you eliminate the corruption. You do this by any means necessary, including lobbying, calling your representative, and even visiting his office on a daily basis. I'm really surprised that ATS hasn't sponsored its own lobbist, someone to visit the politicians, and tell them how much you agree or disagree on a regular basis. Just a thought.

regards,

Camain

Excellent thread, I've posted a lot of these recently, about airport "hassle lists" and the growth of camera surveillance, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all the posts here.

Good find.

Wow, this is a HUGE leap forward to marshal law in the US.

Very scary... am happy not to live there. Maybe they bring ATS down for supporting "thought crime" sometime soon.

Move your servers guys