Socialist healthcare being demonised in the US?

Originally posted by lifestudent

I grew up with a single mom who was on welfare, using foodstamps, and getting help/clothes from friends while training with government aid so she could provide us with a decent life. Once she finished her training, she got off of welfare and food stamps, permanently. We learned how to get by on the minimum, and we learned an incredibly strong work ethic as well. Living that way was no picnic and not something that I believe people would choose if given reasonable options.

I respect you and your mother for that. I wish all people were willing to work for a greater life, but it's really a rarity in today's society. I hate to grind the same stone that I used to berate my parents for when I was younger, but kids these days just think everything should be handed to them. I see it everywhere I go. Things that I would have considered a luxury in my youth, such as IPODs, cell phones, cable TV, etc. are almost considered to be basic human rights nowadays.

Your upbringing sounds very similar to mine except there were two parental figures in the household. There were several years early on where we lived on two main dishes, hot dogs & rice and chick pea soup. It was tough, but my parents pinched every penny and we lived very comfortably as I got older. This is what America is all about. Picking yourself up by the bootstraps and making a good life for your loved ones.

Originally posted by lifestudent
I believe we miss the bigger picture when we say "I've worked hard for mine, and if you don't have health insurance, not my problem." IMO, the key to my own family getting out of our situation back then was the availability of job training (those programs no longer exist), the combination of government supported health care, and real help to get people back into the work force.

I'm all for programs like that for people that use them. I don't have any problem propping somebody up if they're willing to work to better themselves.

Originally posted by lifestudentToday, the programs available for struggling families and health care for children are completely and utterly broken. After falling, for whatever reason, it's incredibly hard for people to get back up. I'm sure there are some people so strung out that they are content to abuse the system and live in squalor, but what about the people whose skills are no longer relevant yet desperately seek the pride you describe? What about the children who are sick or injured and not able to get medical care? What about the people who don't get medical care, contract MRSA or some other form of drug resistant disease such as the now growing number of cases of Tuberculosis caused by inadequate health care and systemic failure to treat? If you can't see a reason to help them, what about when they touch or cough on the upper middle class kids?

I'm surprised to hear that these types of programs are no longer in force. It sure seems like there's plenty of money being thrown around in the lower class areas I've seen because these people have to be paying their rent somehow. I'm a little confused as to why there are lower class sick children languishing without healcare as well, because there are already programs in place to make this happen. The last comment here offends me a little, but I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I'm interpreting it. These kids should be already getting healthcare provided, but if not, you have to wonder why people have kids they can't support. I would love to have a few more kids, but since I can't really afford it right now, I take precautions to make sure that it doesn't happen.

Originally posted by lifestudentI personally believe that a reason we have as much abuse of the other systems (there is no decent health care safety net to abuse) as we do today is because once someone ends up using them, they are basically in a vicious cycle or probably really didn't "need".

Agreed 100%. Once somebody gets "the crutch" it's hard to get off of it. Personally, I would never even go this route unless it was an absolute necessity to survive. I don't want handouts from anybody. There was a time in my life where I rented a room off a friend of mine and worked 80 hours a week in minimum wage jobs just to better my situation. Yeah, it sucked, but sometimes you have to do things that suck to get the results that you want.

Originally posted by lifestudentOn the topic of health care alone, we have some great medical institutions as well as very convenient health care for those who can afford it. I suspect we also have incredible waste in the system when people win huge judgements for minor mistakes or circumstances that should really be "no fault". Most importantly, regardless of the way we've greedily dismantled programs that have proven helpful to our society, we have serious and growing problems in the US in the way we provide (or don't) health care for our most needy, especially children living in poverty.

I agree that the system is not perfect, but socializing medicine is not the solution. Everything the government touches is inflated to 3 times what it needs to be and is polluted with corruption. This would be no different. We're going to end up paying higher taxes, which will drag down the economy even more. This is going to pinch the middle class even harder and make them dependant on the government for healthcare, which they weren't before. Finally, the quality of care is going to drop dramatically.

I enjoyed reading your post and you made quite a few good points. I just disagree with you on what the final result will be. I think it will break what is already a good healthcare system and drag the country down further.

Originally posted by Copernicus
It seems to me that its a very real possibility that Americans have been told from the media that socialized health care equals communism and less freedom? Is this true?

Originally posted by Copernicus
In my country, and most other European countries, we pay nothing at all or very little for any operation or medicine we may need.

I saw this, thought to myself, 'sounds like a troll post'. Pretend to play dumb, and get a gaggle of responses bashing the USA coming from the other side of the pond. Good idea. I see from the later posts you made, that my suspicion was correct. You already have your ideas, blame the money spent on war, say we do not take care of our citizens as a society.

Incorrect.

GDP of Sweden is about equal to the GDP of North Carolina, a fairly small state in the USA.... Sweden has more people yet cannot produce as much as an average American. It is obvious that when people produce more, they have more resources to provide for their needs. GDP of Sweden

There are plenty of resources for medical care in the USA, it is a massively productive society. People can afford healthcare, if they put their money to that end. There is a problem though, and that is that massive taxes are already paid in to subsidize socialized medicine (I should say targeted medicine) for just a very small portion of the population. Those that are on Medicare and Medicaid. This country spares no expense for end of life care, trying to keep every person alive as long as possible, so that the healthcare corporations and the politicians that support these companies can continue to feed at the tax trough. This is a very inefficient use of funds, spending massive amounts of money to extend the lives of the very old for very little return. This is at the expense of the people who are paying, and would like to provide for themselves, especially the young who are still providing.

On the other topic, nothing is free, someone is paying for the care in Sweden. If you think you should charge your medical care to your neighbor, that is socialism. Someone is paying no matter, be it you, your neighbor, or the person on the other side of the country. The USA has in the past not been in favor of this. Although the media pushes socialism at every step.

Let me ask you a question. If you get sick in Sweden, and the course of treatment is dictated to you by the system and the bureaucrats, but you don't believe it is the best route, what can you do? Do you have to leave the country to try to get better treatment? Who makes the decisions for you? If someone else is making these decisions, do you consider yourself still free, or similar to a child that is taken care of by his parents with no will of their own?

If you want to criticize the USA for its system, why is it that Sweden is benefiting from the massive influx of technology developed in the USA? For example computer chips developed at Bell Labs and Intel. Computer Software developed at US corporations, medical procedures and drugs developed by US companies, and all of the technology that makes the health care you use possible... The US is just a very young country, and Europe is ancient, why are we leading the world forward with technology if our system is so bad? I don't mean to bash Sweden, there are good people there, and very productive, I just use them since you brought it up, but if the Europeans have such a great system, why do they have to use the technology developed elsewhere to make things possible for them? They should be the leaders in technology, they have such a head start with their societal system.

Instead they have virtually destroyed the infrastructure of their society with two massive world wars in the last 100 years.

Sorry for the harsh post, but these threads do get old!!

TheMesh

[edit on 25-10-2007 by TheMesh]

Well, the health care issue is a personal peeve of mine, though I suppose that sounds more trival than I truly feel.

The average cost for a family for insurance in the USA, is almost 14,000 dollars a year.

That's insane. Even if you consider that the employer pays an average of 75% of that, it's STILL INSANE.

My parents who are farmers and self employed, couldn't get insurance for less than 1200 dollars a month!

There's no way they could afford that.

So when my father, one day while trying to move a water trough, fell to the ground with pain in his shoulder, thinking he had a heart attack, he found himself having to go to the ER(at the cost of 6000 dollars). They examined him and sent him home with some pain pills.

He was sick after, and put off seeing a doctor again, fearing more doctor bills.

And he died 4 days later. I'm convinced to this day that if he had insurance he'd be alive today.

I am a consultant myself, and am self employed, so would have to purchase insurance. However, I'm covered by my husband's insurance (he's a professor at a university) although we have to pay 500 dollars a month for that. It's our largest bill, and one that makes his salary, already low, barely acceptable.

Does anyone here really believe that quality health care is a privledge of the wealthy?

I'm ALL for people being responsible. But I refuse to believe that we can pay for public schools for children(and I'm childless and paying for all of YOUR children's education, but I'm not complaining), we pay for roads, and NUMEROUS other public services for the betterment of all society, and yet when we talk of health care, suddenly it's every man for himself, and screw the rest, demonizing it by calling it socialist, blah blah blah?

We ALL have a responsiblity, not just to ourselves, but to everyone.

I don't, like pretty much anyone I think, want to help those that simply won't help themselves. But to say, "Hey, we cannot help anyone because someone MIGHT take advantage of it" is poor logic. I could apply that to anything.

Also, bring it home to a personal level. What if this person who might take advantage of the system was your brother, or Aunt, or cousin, or mother? What if they behaved in an irresponsible manner and simply didn't step up? Do they deserve to die maybe because their judgement was poor? Wouldn't you want them to at least have the same access to health care whether or not they could afford it? Would you really say, "Well tough luck mother, you could have been working all this time."

To address this topic as an aside, there are a lot of myths about welfare too, for example, 85% of people are off of assistance in less than 20 months.

And we spend relatively no money on welfare - about 2 percent of the federal budget. Let's put it this way, since 1964, more than 30 years, we've spent about 700 billion dollars on AFDC and food stamps. We spent more than that on defense in the last two years.

The British NHS isn't perfect. It costs a fortune and you notice that at the end of the month when you collect your pay cheque. But the basic concept of the NHS is accepted right across the political spectrum.

You know what the British NHS gives me ? No worries about ££. None whatsoever. Sure I pay for it through payroll taxes. But if I have a heart attack or get mangled in a car accident tmorro I only have to worry about me and getting better and nothing else.

You just can't put a price on that.

And I don't mind paying my taxes for my neighbour to get his cancer treatment or the girl down the road to get her cleft palate operation free on the NHS. Because at some point in my life I'll need medical treatment and their taxes will be paying for me.

Given that life expectancy rates in the US are now lower than most European countries, especially for infants, what do US contributors think needs to be done to reform the US system ?

Socialized medicine demonizes itself.

So far, Americans have been astute enough to avoid a national program.

The VA and the various public health programs, while providing healthcare for those who must avail themselves of it, scare the daylights out of enough people that as soon as they can afford a private healthcare plan, they get one and do their best to keep it.

[edit on 2007/10/25 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Jadette

I'm ALL for people being responsible. But I refuse to believe that we can pay for public schools for children(and I'm childless and paying for all of YOUR children's education, but I'm not complaining), we pay for roads, and NUMEROUS other public services for the betterment of all society, and yet when we talk of health care, suddenly it's every man for himself, and screw the rest, demonizing it by calling it socialist, blah blah blah?

I know this wasn't the point of your post, but here are a few more examples of failing government programs swallowing tax dollars. Schools?? LOL. Our public schooling sucks in the US. More and more people are sending their kids to private school because the education level is higher and they don't have to worry about the school doing things to your kids without telling you (like giving your 11 year old birth control pills or an abortion). Roads? The infrastructure is falling apart and if it was a private business it would be so incompetitive it would fail. They are given massive amounts of money and contract it out to the private companies anyway, talk about corruption. The entire system could be better with half the money spent if they just blocked off areas and put private companies in charge of them.

Right there are two shining examples of why it's wasteful and downright stupid to put anything into the hands of the government. Beleve me, the senators/reps that will be voting on socialized healthcare couldn't possibly care less about the poor people in this country. It's all a big scam to funnel money away from private industry and into the government coffers.

Imagine though, if private entities owned ALL the roads in the US. The idea frightens me. In a world of mega conglomerates, say Wallmart owns all the major East West interstates. They allow free travel for their own good, but charge for competitors. What would stop them? Or, why maintain roads that don't have a lot of traffic on them as well as the more traveled roads? Or charge people more for simply not having access to higher traveled roads?

I can't of course, predict what sorts of things would definately happen, but, I think our roads have served us well for the most part, and the times that they haven't have been pretty small in comparison. The government's failures in management can be fixed, and I think presents a less scary picture than the open market theory.

There's also evidence that private schools aren't really that much better than public, that the numbers are slanted due to the fact that simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background.

This is not to say that I don't believe that there's a lot of problems with public schools. Also, again, if everyone had to pay for their children to go to gradeschool and high school...and the better schools would obviously cost more...is it fair that only the wealthy get the better educations?

If I were say, Queen of the USA, wouldn't I want:

1: healthy little workers?
2: educated little workers?

Wouldn't the strength of my nation depend on providing the things to create a healthy, strong, smart population so that we could compete with the world? I cannot imagine that such a basic thing wouldn't be one of the most important things I could do for the nation.

reply to post by BlueTriangle

The last comment here offends me a little, but I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I'm interpreting it.

Sorry if I offended. I didn't intend to, and I appreciate the benefit of the doubt.

It does sound like we've had similar experiences. I also had a period in my life after moving into my own apartment where I ate quite a bit of peanut butter to get by as I worked the swing shift at a local prefabrication plant and went to school.

I definitely feel that this exchange has been useful for me to develop my actual opinions, so thanks. Since I've written a tome so far, I'll just sum up my own conclusions:

1. I think there are a lot of great things about the US medical system, but it has gaping chasms and too many people drop through them. I think this is an incredibly serious issue for the country and agree with Copernicus' points on that.

2. I agree that people shouldn't have kids when they can't support them, but after it's done, I believe our society must find a way to provide them with basic medical care for the good of everyone.

3. I would like to see some real progress towards making the malpractice system more sensible. I do believe that in justified cases, people should be able to get significant settlements, which would be precluded by tort reform that I've seen, but I also feel that there are too many unjustified lawsuits and settlements that constrain doctors, both in their costs of operation as well as the openness of their care.

4. I actually don't think we need truly socialized medicine. I think that we do need some basic safety net for the truly needy. I'd be in favor of something like "medical stamps" that must be accepted by licensed hospitals. I too believe the government would likely create quite a sinkhole if they tried to "take over" medicine.

On topic, the media is demonizing the universal health care issue in this country. I should say here at the on set that I do not support Clinton but I do support an American version of universal health car, ( UHC ). It can work. Like any collective ideal of peoples, there is a process to endure. Sifts in national ideals take time. It took a long time to accept things like a womans right to vote, racial equlity, or something as silly as driving 55 during a fuel crisis and or even now our highten airport sucurity.

The UHC question is a multifaceted one which can not be solved simply in the USA because of several fundamental issues. Here are a few.

Top rate doctors making bags of money for there services. What happened to the hypocratic oath ? Don't get me wrong, I believe that if your that good you deserve a premium but there is a limit. No football player is worth 10 million dollars a year either.

Insurance companies and malpractise suits are out of control. A fine line indeed but again there is a limit.

The US has the best medical services available worldwide. We also pay the highest rates for those services. This inturn allows for giant companies like Bayer, Mersk, and many others to exist , do research, make lots of money, invest in universities, and then finally allow these advancements to be shared with the rest of the world, but of coarse only to a certain extent. We pay a premium for many things in the US because of that consumer base. New world order stuff. It's not because we have more citizens but those that are fortunate enough to live here have the means to consume like no other nation. Not to alienate other first world nations who also are as responsible as the US for this reality but we all prop up the world as a whole in this way. It is humanitarian and noble but with many flaws. Now because of this consumer base we do have the means to offer everyone healthcare at a reasonable cost whilts retaining our obligation as a superpower to help all people. Therfore the term and burden. Pretty tight conundrum we've landed in don't you think. I do not have a solution to offer here. Bringing all nations up to speed would help, but indeed a puzzle or maybe a house of cards ready to tumble.

Wow, a lot said or should I say enough said. It's my first post by the way. I am a dual citizen of both our great nations. ( USA / Canada ) so I have incite on them both. Do not listen to the negative statistics referenced to us about waiting lines in Canada. Although that system is not perfect it does work for everyone. If you wait in Canada it is because you can. Emergencies always move to the head of the line but if you need some type of procedure that can be postponed sometimes it may be but not a quarter as much as the negative media sources would have us believe. Hog wash. There are over crowding problems sometimes and the system does suffer from over use caused by the population going to the hospital for a minor cut or a case of the common cold and the sort. Also I've read often here a reference to health care being free up in Canada. Please don't say this. As all of us know nothing is free. Income taxes in Canada average about 42% plus we pay on average 15% on all goods and services we purchase with our taxed income. Double wammy there. So it's not free and never was.

I hope this ads to this monumentally entrenched political and ideoligical querry. There is no easy path but if anyone can make it work we can. Most people I know here in Houston strugggle with health care costs, complexity and availability. Young and old a like. It sure is nice in Canada when you never have to worry about how or whom is going to help you or you neighbor when tradgedy or sickness rears its' ugly head. But it's not free, god no.

Enough said.

I wish I knew just how much profit that healthcare insurance companies make.

I know some years back in California, they took a look into car insurance and found out that they were over charging people. I don't remember the details, it was the early 1990s I think.

Surely the insurance industry is regulated? Is the cost of healthcare really that high, how much money is being made, and where are the losses occuring? Is it paperwork? Bad management of resources? Wages?

Is is the aging population? Remember my earlier post? 14,000 dollars a year per family. I know I certainly haven't used my share of that pay in. What are the statistics of cost versus return?

If anyone knows, I'd be curious to read about it.



[edit on 25-10-2007 by Jadette]

Jedette,

I think all your deductions are true an lean towards a infinitly large money making machine when it comes to Insurance companies, doctors, lawyers and government. I am not within any of these industries but I believe Insurance comglomerates are regulated on what they must pay out but not what they can charge for there assurances. Even there obligations to there clients is a fuzzy area. Read your policies carefully and ask lots of questions with these guys.

If you wondering about this crowd just look on TV. How many ads do you sea concerning drugs / medication / odd maladies ( EX: Restless leg syndrom ????). Then there the lawyers ads to sue anyone based on just about any possible situation. ( Ex: abestos inhilation ???) And then there's the hospitals and private clinics running there ads to come to there facilities like your chosing a hotel or restaurant.

You can bet they are making bags of money. Then they all try to take it from one another in court.

What a pickle we're in.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by Copernicus


Any new move that requires us to cough up more money would cripple the middle class for good. We have price gouging going on with milk, bread, meats, and especially gasoline. We can't pay 100 dollars in groceries a week and 100 dollars in gas, and then lug the weight of a nation on our backs as well.

pts. I'm sure I will WOW you tomorrow though with a few hours rest. Hahaha.

stop it ...please..


Americans live in the lap of luxury and yet whine about every little thing.

Maybe you should stop feasting on vast mountains of food.

I was shocked to see the "poor people" of hurricane katrina waddling from side to side like ducks and being 3 TIMES AS WIDE AS ME.


All that eating,drinking,binging ,whining...all that gluttony.

the slightest discomfort and you you complain...


Why dont all of you go to live in africa with the tribes.

you will probably eat them too like capitalist cannibals.

it will improve your health and improve your selfish me,me,me,morals.

you people are eating the planet and stealing food of everyone.

your senators are the most corrupt ever...


you can buy laws by paying them...

you seem to elect the worst people into office...the ones who are good at looking good on tv...

and you swallow all their lies.

you deserve what you elect.

[edit on 25-10-2007 by esecallum]

I live in Canada and I find it disturbing how much Americans have to pay for treatment of any kind.
I pay about $40 per month into the system (single/no kids).I have a herniated disc so WCB requires me to visit the doctor every three months.IF I wasn't covered, each visit would cost me $35.We're covered for anything non cosmetic.This means heart surgery won't cost you your house or anything else you've worked hard for.
On the other side, yes there are people who abuse this system because of going to the doctor for every sniffle and cough and I can't figure out why people would choose to sit in a line for an hour or more.Mostly it's immigrant older folks I see.It's not racist, it's fact (from my perspective).
Everyone pays into the system and everyone gets treatment.
Prescriptions are another realm of discussion.Some have company benefits and others have Blue Cross.Others pay full price.
Rich or poor has no bearing, it has to do with healthy and not healthy.Rich kids get ill and so do poor kids.

Esecallum,

Papillon, Washington, Montana. Not far from the Uni Bomber. Jezzzee. I don't think we were on that wave length. I know some on this thread are not from here, the USA, but all that banter. Some have over steppped what is warranted towards patriots of this country but we should have some restraint. Our values are at stake. Our closest ones. The only ones that matter. All the same we should care about what happens to us and all those that care as we do. This is what we're made of.

Make room for everyone.
P

Actually Esecallum,

That loaded post sounds like a cart full to me. Starts nice and ends in a false reality, empty like the drum of a belly.

read it again,
P.

I would say most americans perception of government run healthcare is this

positive; everyone has coverage
negative ; higher taxes, longer waits

so they see it as the poor get coverage, at their expense (taxes, wait times)

whats nutty about the american plan is its employment based. We force employers to become experts in healtcare.

one idea would for it to be like car insurance or life insurance , each family or individual purchases health insurance based on need, and the prices are based on risk

the insurance carriers and lawmakers will resist this, of course, because what that means is the young and healthy will buy cheap hospitilization coverage, and the rates for the middle aged and elderly who need prescriptions and doctors visits and testing and oxygen tanks and insulin needles covered will skyrocket, which defeats the purpose of insurance, which is a pooling of risk

so the only solution I see is a government system where everyone starts paying in to the pot a certain amount from age 18, and everyone is entilted to the same benefits until death, like social security

that sounds great, but the US has a unique problem, the baby boomer curve. the baby boomer curve will wipe out social security, bottom out the markets (as retirees sell off assets and go into cash), and crush medicare and any fledgeling government run healthcare system

hold onto your hats americans, it's gonna be a bumpy ride

but hey, the good news is there will be lots of job openings

Originally posted by Jadette
I wish I knew just how much profit that healthcare insurance companies make.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by Jadette]

I used to work for empire blue cross in NYC. commercial insurance companies make about 3-5% profit, and that's a very consistent number across the entire industry. The Rx companies are in the 10% to 18% range.

almost all insurance carriers break down like this;

85% - 87% covering claims
10% overhead ( I'm sure you can imagine how many people it takes to process 10's of millions of claims)
3%-5% profit


(feel free to U2U me any questions, I used to recruit doctors as well, I'm very well versed in the finances of the industry)



[edit on 25-10-2007 by syrinx high priest]

we are a nation of debtors and no one really owns anything unless they are wealthy. 'middle class' just means you have enough credit to get 'good' loans.

the US dollar/economy is about to burst thanks to the federal reserve

on socialized health care, the fact is we have medicare (which is 4 times the animal as social security) and we will have, in 30 years, 50 TRILLION dollars of unfunded liabilities.

our government has shown time and time again that they do not know how to handle our money. socialized health care would exponentially increase the financial ruin our country faces, and make it sooner than it would be otherwise.

socialized health care in america means no health care in a few short years.


----and a short note: our federal income tax is used, in full, to pay off the interest of our national debt. Link

As a doc, let me let you in on a secret...we don't have healthcare in the US. It ended decades ago; we now have disease care. That means that instead of keeping you healthy and getting paid for that, we make money by keeping you sick and needing expensive prescriptions. Docs make money for visits and surgeries, insurers make lots of money cause you pay about $5,000- $12,000 per year for "insurance" depending on your morbidity and family size and the average person doesn't take nearly that amount out in benefits(the 12G is yours plus your employers contributions per year). The biggest winner is the pharmaceutical corp and medical device industry that sells stuff that costs a fraction of a cent to produce for dollars to thousands of dollars per dose or per widget. Even keeping that flawed system the same, Did you know that 30% of your insurance payments are spent on paperwork and advertising for the insurance company, not put back into "healthcare"? Did you know that 95% of the money put into medicare and medicaid (our socialized medicine programs which their clients like very much, thank you) is actually paid out to patients and doctors? Now, you tell me, which is more efficient? By the way, the same percentages hold in Canada for their government run system. Private medical systems cannot be efficient because they have to advertise and run all the business functions of a corporation; the government does not. Government paid is the way to go; it will save everyone money. The key is not to regulate what kind of care you get, but also we need to address the garbage lifestyles that Americans have that is causing all the needless disease and suffering. If we focused on real disease prevention and not just treating symptoms after it is too late, we could save a tremendous amount of money. The only way this will happen is if the government runs healthcare. If the government that makes the laws is paying the bill, they will have an incentive to pass laws that encourage a healthier lifestyle. Did you know that if everyone in the US was covered by a single payer system run by the government and we just used the money that is now being collected by the insurers that every person in the USA would be covered? No new taxes needed. That 30% waste would cover our 25% uninsured. I will try to get the references for this if anyone wants; but I have heard all this stuff in legit lectures that I have attended for continung medical education, and it is available on medicare related sites.

[edit on 26-10-2007 by j_kalin]

I see it as primarily a currency/spending issue. Healthcare is not feesible in american societty right now. Between the debt and the further decline or the dollar, what we need is less programs, not more.

Not to mention we are paying so much interest on our debt that a good portion of our income tax goes to paying the interest off. Mismanagement in government is unbelievable.

Overall, there are so many reasons not to trust government with my life and safety. Honesty and reliability are two things I don't see the government as. I would prefer saving my money, so that when I do have a back injury I can pay for it and get immediate attention.

That is aside from the more obvious principle of the matter. I don't believe it is the federal governments job to be creating programs like healthcare and medicare. The point of national government is to protect the liberty of its citizens. It is the state and local governments job to decide what programs to have or not have.

If a certain state whats free healthcare, thats fine. Personally I won't live there because I don't believe in having free healthcare. I then have the decision to move. If it is done on a federal level I no longer have that choice.

I have numerous reasons why I don't support national healthcare, many of which are very logical. Corruption, the devaluation of the dollar, personal belief of role for federal government, and the system flaws itself.