Discovery Launches at 11:38 EDT. Expects to Reach and Dock With ISS in 44 Hours!

Originally posted by b309302

Sorry, anyways back on topic, just waiting for John...

If you are waiting for an answer from me b# you are going to have to be more specific than "What is Life?".

Thanks for the post.

Why all this fuss over docking?

Who's to say they need to dock at the SSS at all?

In the process of "testing" the arm, one of the reasons stated for opening the cargo bay doors, couldn't they simply off-load the supplies in the local vicinity of the SSS, to be picked up later by a transfer vehicle?

While the crew members are "testing" the arm, are the on-board civilians allowed to observe and take part?

"Here, let me have a go at that! Wee! This is just like the grabber hand at the carnival!"



No fuss no muss, as they pass through the neighborhood, they just "toss" the bundle out.

It's not like the space based services theoretically don't have ample lunar-derived fuel to chase it down.

reply to post by b309302


I know exactly where you are coming from, and neither me or John or anyone else here can convince you other wise. But it does make sense to me and it may make sense to you one day. When it makes sense it will be very sudden and it will just click and you will see it too. Only you can make it happen, the only thing that we ask is that you don't just go away and forget about it - that would be the worst thing that you can do. Please stick around, one day it will be worth it.

I would just like to add the irony here with the fact that if it wasn't for people like John Lear or Zorgon or for the ATS community for that matter I would be going about my life and not even pay attention to what NASA does or what happens in space. For one thing NASA without the conspiracy is really, really boring. I mean come on, why on earth would I need to get excited about NASA spending hours and hours and hours looking for cracks in the tiles of the space shuttle and making repairs to equipment?

Also remember that we live in a society that has completely forgotten about and does not care at all about the space program.

[edit on 10/24/07 by housegroove23]

John... I honestly am confused. If their is a huge secret space program, like you claim there is. Then obviously the shuttle/rockets, are not nearly enough to supply this program right? We both agree there has to be another way to supply it. If that is the case, why are we using the shuttle to make secret runs to the SSS, if we have more covert alternatives already in use? I'm kinda lost on that part of it. I just don't understand the purpouse of a high profile shuttle flight running supplies to a secret space station, when it can be done other more covert ways. Isn't the point to keep the secret station secret? =)

reply to post by housegroove23

I'm with you on that one, it would be boring. However like I said, there should be a reason for the conspiracy. What are we covering up? Why use the shuttle on a secret mission and cover it up if we all agree there are easier more covert ways to do it? Now were creating conspiracies just to create them. I agree NASA is covering up some stuff, but not this. If they are covering up secret ships that supply the secret space program...okay I'll go with that. However if we are doing that, then why are we using the space shuttle too? If you believe one conspiracy, there is no reason to even have the other one. The point of ATS was to debate, and maybe hopefully find the truth. When you start using unproven conspiracies to explain other unproven conspiracies, you start heading down a steep slope, and it's not a steaming pile of truth your going to be waist deep in when you hit the bottom.



[edit on 24-10-2007 by b309302]

I believe the Space Shuttle is NOT the only means to supply the Secret Space Station. It didn't take thousands of people, like some say to put this together. Secrets kept aren't humans best qualities. The Antiquated Shuttle is a contributor, but by no means the main supplier.

Originally posted by b309302

John... I honestly am confused. If their is a huge secret space program, like you claim there is. Then obviously the shuttle/rockets, are not nearly enough to supply this program right? We both agree there has to be another way to supply it. If that is the case, why are we using the shuttle to make secret runs to the SSS, if we have more covert alternatives already in use? I'm kinda lost on that part of it. I just don't understand the purpouse of a high profile shuttle flight running supplies to a secret space station, when it can be done other more covert ways. Isn't the point to keep the secret station secret? =)

Try and think of secret operations as an onion. An onion has many layers some of which intertrwine with others; some of which are short and crack; some of which go all the way around; some of which are thick; some of which and thin. Have you ever tried to scrape the covering off of an onion? You know how some pieces come of quickly but some pieces are attached more deeply? You know how some pieces go all the way around?

Imagine the space program as a giant ballet with curtains raising and dropping; curtains being pulled open and then closed; backdrops being raised and lowered; main actors speaking, extras in the background; imagine the orchestra pit down in front, hidden from the audience with only the orchestra leader whipping his little baton, gesculating here and there, nodding here and there, throwing a glance of approval here a glance of disapproval there; imagine the trap doors in the stage being opened here for that actor to fall through or to dump that prop into. Imagine the lights at the back of the theater directing attention to this part of the ballet or that part; the overhead lights casting an accent here and an accent there. Imagine the stage hands pulling ropes that bring different sets in at different times. Imagine the make-up rooms where apperances are enhanced or changed; wigs, falls, beards, moustaches, costumes donned. Imagine the stage manager with his script running around making sure that everything is going smoothly and everything is on time; that the actors are where they should be and that they are following the script. Imagine the prompters in the wings who are reading along as the actors are speaking and throwing him lines if he forgets or falters.

Now imagine that you are watching the space program. All you see is a shuttle take 44 hours to reach the ISS. The astronauts then install a few panels. Then the shuttle takes 54 hours to land.

Notice anything unusual?

Originally posted by johnlear
Notice anything unusual?

Uh yeah....that was about the weirdest analogy ever....

But entertaining.....

reply to post by b309302
I've got to say I'm with you on this one. I had quite similar thoughts this morning when reviewing the overnight posts.

Either the military has this advanced program and they can cover their needs and let us regular folks have a NASA program or all the advanced craft and mar/moon bases hasn't happened and they are stuck using the NASA shuttle to slowly build a presence and hide the activities.

It would appear they have somehow entered a retrograde period in technology.

At some point the whole secret must get too large to hide all but half of one percent of it from almost all the world.

Don`t you think its a bit odd that the shuttle takes off a day before the chinese launch their rocket?

Got a funny feeling the chinese are going to get sabotaged

just my ignorant 2 cents worth

steve

Okay... wow that was a weird analogy. I'm not even sure if you answered my question or not ? I'll give you credit for that...

[edit on 24-10-2007 by b309302]

Originally posted by stevecc

Don`t you think its a bit odd that the shuttle takes off a day before the chinese launch their rocket?

Got a funny feeling the chinese are going to get sabotaged

just my ignorant 2 cents worth

steve

Thanks for the post Steve. My opinion is that the U.S. Government is very strongly allied with the Chinese and have been for many years.

Anything done to or with the Chinese by the U.S. is coordinated at the highest levels of the secret government.

The alleged war slated for 4th quarter of 2008 between the U.S. and China has been jointly choreographed for many years to accomplish various and specific needs of both countries. It should make a real good show.

i figured that the U.S would get a bit twitchy over the chinese launch and are up there to monitor the situation.

Be interesting to see if anything developes.

regards
steve

John, your "onion" analogy makes perfect sense and thus it´s an analogy beeing used fairly frequently in several aspects. What i however still don´t get is how a secret space station and the shuttle can be on the same layer?!

John, regarding the current shuttle crew...do you believe they are informed about what was found/seen/experienced by previous official missions to the moon or are the apollo missions a slate locked up for eveyone but those involved at the time?

Thanks.

I watched the STS and ISS passes again tonight based on data from heavens-above. The STS passed by first followed in less than a minute by the ISS. (per the website info). The shuttle appeared brighter than ISS. I was able to view them reasonably well despite the near full moon. I watched them move from the west, over Jupiter in the SW and then into Sagittarius.

So they were near each other.

Originally posted by roadgravel
I watched the STS and ISS passes again tonight based on data from heavens-above. The STS passed by first followed in less than a minute by the ISS. (per the website info). The shuttle appeared brighter than ISS. I was able to view them reasonably well despite the near full moon. I watched them move from the west, over Jupiter in the SW and then into Sagittarius.

So they were near each other.

Stop looking into the sky, it's a holograpghic projection. Don't believe what you see, when you are ready then, and only then you will see what Mr. Lear is talking about.

Originally posted by tomra

John, your "onion" analogy makes perfect sense and thus it´s an analogy beeing used fairly frequently in several aspects. What i however still don´t get is how a secret space station and the shuttle can be on the same layer?!

Thanks for the post tomra. As I mentioned before all information is compartmentalized. Seven crewmembers on the Shuttle may have seven completely different briefings so that only one or two may have any idea whats really going on.

For instance they may have a full crew briefing in which the entire crew is briefed about the mission and what is going to take place. After the full crew briefing each crew member is taken for a separate briefing and told, "What we told all those other guys was a lie, here's whats really going to happen." Each guy thinks he is being told the truth so he is not going to discuss what he knows particularly because part of his briefing is not to discuss it with anybody else.

You would have had to been in black ops once to know how true and completely diabolical this concept is.

For instance, once arrived at the space station one crew member may walk down a hallway and be gone for a couple of days. In fact, he may have gotten on a moon shuttle gone to the moon or he may have taken a small tug somewhere closer, maybe to service another satellite. People don't realilze how big the ISS is or how many different types of spacecraft can dock with it or whats really in it. People generally have the opinion that the International Space station is a leaky, creaky, orbiting porta potty ready to be trashed in 2015. Boy would they be surprized about what goes on up there!

John, regarding the current shuttle crew...do you believe they are informed about what was found/seen/experienced by previous official missions to the moon or are the apollo missions a slate locked up for eveyone but those involved at the time?

Not all members are briefed at the same level. Some shuttle crewmembers who know whats really going on would smile at the mention of the Apollo Missions knowing full well it was just a public relations scam, that sure we went there, but we had already been there for 8 years. Some would not have any idea that Apollo was other than 6 missions to the moon for the first time and that we have never been back.

Nobody would believe how big the space program really is so its a fairly safe secret. Even if one portion of the space program leaked it would not compromise or lead to the discovery of the other portions.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by tomra

You would have had to been in black ops once to know how true and completely diabolical this concept is.

You were in black ops I assume?

[edit on 24-10-2007 by sr71b]

reply to post by johnlear
Wouldn't this mixed and partial briefing setup some dangerous situations. What happens is something goes wrong and other crew members are in the dark or do not know the measures required to handle the situation or what they have to deal with?

I suppose the day the shuttle returns missing a person or two we will all hear one heck of a tale.

EDIT to add:

Was Columbia the tall tale for a missing crew.



[edit on 10/24/2007 by roadgravel]

Originally posted by sr71b

You were in black ops I assume?

The black ops I was in was nothing like this.

To appreciate these kind of black ops you would have to have been in yourself to know how truly diabolical their operations are.