Tonight: forced entry into my apartment

Twice within 5 minutes a male and a female, both hispanic came to my door peddling their "wares" of jewelry.

Rules of Engagement for strange people coming to the door:
(which if you are a young female, may mean life or death, hence survival)

Rule #1- Never open the door. My wife did because I looked through the peep hole and though that it was a friend coming over to pick some stuff up. The man (twenties) in broken English tried to say he was selling necklaces and tried to enter the apartment. My wife closed the door on him on attempted entry.

Rule #2- Get backup! I called my friends who live on the other side of the complex, and they made a few round of the apartment complex, but did not spot the perps.

Rule #3- Get an accurate description. I speak fluent Spanish, so I know they were of Mexican decent. The woman, who knocked on the door about 5 minutes after the man was quite surprised when she was answered in angry, fluent Spanish. She lied through the door to me- and I told her that I was calling the authorities. The man is very identifible- he was missing the upper right lateral incisor tooth and a gold stud in the right ear only. The woman a bit harder- white and pink jogging outfit.

Rule #4- Make sure backup includes local authority. Our apartment complex is partolled by deputized agents here, so they showed up within 5 minutes with multiple officers, vehicles and armament.

Rule #5- Coordinate with your neighbors. While outside the next door neighbor heard the talking ot the officers and came out, and was duefully informed. The lady that lives diagonally is a police officer and was on duty at the time, but I will likely talk to her Wednesday. The more eyes the better. Where I live I associate with about 10% of the apartment community on a daily basis. Such eyes and ears has caught a break and enter in progress- the police arrived a little late, but since there have been many instances in the last week, more patrols will be in the area

Rule #6- Arm yourself. The next time they show up, I'll gladly open the door, but they will be looking down the barrel of my shotgun. Tennessee has carry conceal, and all you have to do is spot the $115, and wait until your permit come back. 2 years ago here a disgruntled employee at a grocery store went in with a Bowie knife and started stabbing people. He was subdued by the next door business owner pulling a CCW and forcing him to the ground.

Many of these rules of engagement can also be used for other situations- I was able to go to southern Mississippi to help with post Katrina efforts K + 26 days. People who even just coordinated with neighbors were FAR better off.

Hope this post was well thought out, and gives you all something to think about.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by slidebyem]

Definitely good ideas.
I am always wary of people who make the journey down my long driveway. My dog will bark up a storm if he doesn't recognise the car's noise. He also freaks no matter who it is that walks down. He gives me ample time to decide my course of action. More than once I spotted some people going door to door. I just let my pup out to bark up a storm. The invisible fence keeps him down by the house, but strangers don't know that.

This opened my eyes a bit to the severity of situations which may occure where you live. It sounds quite dangerous and I am quite amazed at the depth of your community (neighbour) surveilence. I feel upset for people to live in such fear in such a 'civilised' society.

Here in Australia, Gold Coast well the house I live in apparently was robbed twice before I moved in, hasn't happened since I've moved in. I hear stories from the more mature generation when they could leave their house doors as well as their car doors unlocked without any fear of breaking in.

I guess the only defense I have of a forced entry is about 8 years martial arts experience. No guns here, but the danger factor is no way near as severe.

Drugs would be the main factor contributing to these forced entries, correct? What other factors could add to their motives?

Upon hearing this I am glad I live in such a tame environment.

Good luck, take care and peace,
- Naz

This happens to me almost every other day. Door to door panhandling seems to be a growing trend these days.

The first couple of days I answered the door. I don't have a problem answering the door as even at home there's always a pistol in my waistband and I never just open the door. It's always cracked with a chain left on and my foot stopping it. There's enough room for me to see and get a shot or two off.

After the first couple of times I just let them knock or whatever and they move on.

I don't have a wife or kids so there isn't any current need to train anyone to deal with this sort of thing. My girlfriend, however, will not answer the door unless you call from the door and tell her you're there standing on the porch. Then she looks out the window then peep hole to double and triple check.

It's my experience that this sort of peddling is really a form of recon. They are trying to see who is home or not home. They may take the opportunity then or come back later. They are looking for opportunity - don't give it to them.

In a former job, I used to literally read every affidavit of probable cause filed in a particular jurisdiction. You would NOT BELIEVE some of the stuff that goes on in this world and that was 15 years ago. I can only imagine it is twice as bad now. A person definitely has to have a game plan for every possible scenario. And, although it sounds paranoid, you really cannot trust ANYONE - at least not fully. People are like water, they flow to the lowest point. I really don't think I am being a pessimist - just realistic.

On a side note, I think as more and more immigrants come up from Mexico, this sort of issue will be on the rise. Even if they are not looking for trouble, their cultural boundaries are very different than ours. My Mexican friends don't seem to have a problem being too personal, too forward or asking for favors that I would never dream of asking them. I think they are just naturally more open than Americans.

I fully agree with the last post. While knowing the rules of engagement is a must nowdays. It never hurts to also learn martial arts. I can vouch from personal experience. I've taken 2 years of karate, 3 years of taekwondo, and of course I'm a level 2 wing chun guy working on my level 3 out of a 10 level system. Martial arts works very well if you don't have anything else around to defend yourself and it takes the possibility of your weapon being used against you out of the equation. The thing to keep in mind is that with gun laws the way they are nowdays and the way the govt has been doing things lately I wouldn't be a bit suprised if they one day take away all of our guns or make it illegal to carry or use them in defense situations like the one mentioned earlier in this thread. If that becomes the case I'd rather be safe than sorry and be able to depend on myself as a weapon for self defense in that situation. Even though the last thing you want to do is get into an altercation with someone ( you never know if they have a concealed weapon ) knowing martial arts is a good way to ensure that you will be much more safe in the instance of a burglary or a mugging attack or any other such violent / illegal life or death situation.

I would say martial arts is a must. What was done to deter the potential criminals was exactly what should be done. But ask yourself what do you do if your wife is the only one home and they force their way in and there are no weapons to be found in the time allotted. I highly recommend wing chun kung fu for females as it was invented by a woman and is designed to defeat advanced styles of martial arts and much larger and stronger opponents. In fact the style was born out of a small woman defeating a tough warlord in China who was also a master of many advanced forms of kung fu. Anyone can learn wing chun regardless of size or age really. Some people say it can be practiced up to 80 - 85 years of age.

Although I know there are more great styles of martial arts out there, I use wing chun as an example because it doesn't require size or strength really. It is more about technique. Any style that is designed for a small person to defeat a larger person or much stronger person with minimal effort is good in my book.

Gun and knife defense in the martial arts style is also a must although I don't recommend trying to take someone's gun or knife from them unless you absolutely have no choice and if it is the only option for survival.

Still though I'm a huge advocate of martial arts and self defense. The other benefit of martial arts is that you can teach your children how to defend themselves and possibly they will never even need to carry a weapon, not to mention the health benefits and character development benefits that come from martial arts.

Things like what that guy was talking about usually take place within a split second and that's usually all it takes for a rape, murder, or mugging to occur. Often that's not enough time to draw a weapon, little alone look for one.

I say martial arts and using the rules of engagement are a great combination.

I once found a bag to tools stashed behind our shed which the police suspected could have been for breaking into the house which really made me sit up and take note because thats not something that happens so often round here. It was a good few years ago since this happened but i have certainly never forgotten it.

I don't worry about people sneaking about now because the dog hears everything, but every once in a while he will bark at an odd hour of the morning and be looking out the window. Only for nothing to be their which i geuss is only ever a good thing.

As for answering the door - it doesnt bother me probably because nothing has ever happend but i geuss one day it might. I just hope im big and ugly enough to scare them off.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
It's my experience that this sort of peddling is really a form of recon. They are trying to see who is home or not home. They may take the opportunity then or come back later. They are looking for opportunity - don't give it to them.

Could be right. It is a known tactic for thieves. I know from personal experience.

I was home one day and looked out the window to see two guys walking and one of them started up my stairs to my front door. The other walked to the next house.

He knocked and I opened the door, then he asked if I had a light. I gave him an old lighter and then I watched him out the window. I thought it rather suspicious that someone would cold knock on someones door for matches for a smoke.

Sure enough he walks next door where my neighbors were away. His buddy was carrying out a TV set and they started back down the road in the opposite direction. Funny there is a pawn shop that way.

Anyway, I called the cops and within 3 minutes they had them both.

The one guy that looked me in the eye from the back of the police cruiser - I could tell - was having a bad day after that.

Your life wasnt in danger and there was no "breakin" as your tittle states.

This is annoying, and for sure, you have to be careful nowadays, but you've gone over the top.

They were peddling stuff so they could get high- that's it. You slammed the door (good move) your life was no more in danger than mine was when a WHITE man knocked on my door at 4am to ask me if i had a "light" for his cigarrette. I told him to buzz off and get his lite at the police station.
That's all it takes when you're suspicious!!!

Nothing like a band of Hispanics to make it an attack on you!! Watch out for the Chinese, they yellow and carry knives.

Be cautious, be careful of EVERYONE, not specific minority groups. Yet continue living without being ultraparanoid- Just try to make good judgements and forget the ethnicity. Everyone
's capable of anything.

Originally posted by dgtempe

You slammed the door (good move) your life was no more in danger than mine was when a WHITE man knocked on my door at 4am to ask me if i had a "light" for his cigarrette. I told him to buzz off and get his lite at the police station.

Man that is weird, who the hell knocks on doors at that time, for a light, lol I would have at least got a knife or something.

[edit on 23-10-2007 by _Phoenix_]

My 2 local 24 hour laundromats were broken into 7 times this summer. I'm semi-retired right now and work security part time for a local Defense contractor. I was asked by the laundries' owners to make random patrols at night since I work 2nd shift and usually up all night anyway. For the nearly 1500 monthly patrons of these facilities shutting down either of the laundromats puts a huge burden as the next closest laundry facilities are over 20 miles away. We eventually caught the thieves red handed on video. While I detest the idea of gov't spy cameras, a personal one maybe the only way to get any justice in the end. Many of the local scumbags started noticing that someone was watching and moved elsewhere to peddle their illicit substances. Most of them behave just like cockroaches, shine a little light on them and they run for cover.

I was in the kitchen and he knocked on the window

I was getting dressed for work and so was my husband!

BTW, i did put a serrated knife in my bag for fear he'd get us in the parking lot....that was when i lived in Tempe, AZ.

I can see why the OP was very concerned- I just dont want him to lose his head and end up hurting someone and going to jail.

Where i live thieves do recon for break and enter via calling up your house.

At one point in time i remember getting a lot of phone calls where the person on the other side would just hang up after you answered. My guess is that they where probably targeting my area.

We get this type of thing around here pretty often.
Just last week a girl between 18-23 came to my moms apartment when I was there, with some smooth line about selling magazines, she even flirted with me to gain our trust, and then out of nowhere, 2 guys popped up trying to come in.

I know that a lot of folks on ATS are strongly anti-authority, but the police actually have some good information about avoiding being targeted by break-inners and thieves.

There are all kinds of things you can do to lessen the chances of being a victim. Here's a few I remember.

-Not living in an apartment.

- Not living on the ground floor. The majority of breakins occur in those.

- Not living where nearest the exit, or with a choice of multile exits. This gives fleeing thieves better odds of a clean gettaway.

- Not living in lower trafficked areas. More traffic means more witnesses---IF you live in an area where neighbors would actually care about deterring crime.

- A visible johnny bar on sliding glass doors. Visible thumbscrews on windows.

- A place with all windows more than about 4 ft above ground level. It makes them harder to get up into.

- Get a dog, or have the sounds of dogs emanate from your residence. And abandonded dog house and empty dog dish may deterr thieves, if they are just passing through.

- Motion sensor lights at entryways. These things drive thieves nuts. You never know if it is automatic, or if the homeowner just woke up and turned on the porch light. Also, everyone in the neighborhood knows there's some kind of activity at that house.

- Calling the police and requesting that noise ordinances, etc., be enforced. The more unscheduled cops in your neighborhood, the less of a target.

-Living in a hood with retirees, who are home during the day. When I was a victim of home invasion, it was in an apartment complex where EVERYONE left for work at the exact same time every day. I was literally the only person at home in the whole unit. The thief was unlucky, to force the door of the only apt. with someone home.



Ask the local police for a neighborhood watch booklet. A lot of the stuff is simply compilations of what thieves look for. Some larger agencies (Metro Atlanta used to) tell you the statistics for various crimes in your area, and what techniques were popular with the local crime element.

As always, the man with the plan is the one who wins. You don't have to be bullet-proof; just less of a target than your neighbors.


PS. I had a girlfriend in Austin TX where every house on her street had been burgled at least once, except the guy on the corner. He had a camo-painted jeep, with a "God bless the NRA" bumper sticker. He had an American flag flying from a 40-ft illuminated pole in his front yard. And a spotlight focused on a shooting target taped to his front door, with the heart and groin shot out of it. A sign in on the porch said "Anyone found here after dark . . . will be found here the next morning." There was a sign posted on his back fence about his guard dog, telling you to lie down and hold still if his dog confronted you. For some reason, he was never a crime victim.

Hispanics, blacks, and middle eastern descenters! Oh my! Get a grip. My two dogs would make quick work of anyone with nefarious plans that didn't get the hint at their boisterous growling and barking. 12 gauge backup for anyone that enters your abode uninvited would call it a day.

Just some "quick" and hopefully "helpful" advice ...

1. Don't open your door if you don't know who it is....

2. ALWAYS call the police in a situation like this. They may have gotten other calls and they will increase patrols in the area thus limiting and return visits.

3. DO NOT EVER point a gun at ANYONE you are not going to kill. In my opinion, panhandling door to door is NOT a reason to kill anyone.

4. The actions described in the OP is a very common form of "Casing" and so should be taken seriously and always reported.

5. Note: Casing a place is also not justification for killing someone. Don't go to jail for some idiot.

6. Don't limit your suspicions to any one race or ethnic origin. There are criminals of all race, creeds and colors.

Just posting my .02 cents

Semper

Pitching a few ideas:

1. An assailant doesn't have to pull a gun to kill you. Braining you with a brick or shanking you works just fine, Mr. Lives-All-Civilized-Like-In-A-Country-Overrun-By-Poisonous-Demonic-Animals. Oh, and Australia, like anywhere else, has guns. just because they're illegal doesn't mean you can't get them, like drugs.

2. Watch out for your neighbors. If it even *looks* like they're getting burgled, do something. That way, at least the thieves get the idea that pickings aren't so easy even if the cops don't catch them.

3. The majority of burglaries are committed by drug addicts, who probably aren't the most stable individuals when Mr. Jones has his claws in them. A professional burglar is the one you won't even realize is there. Lock your doors and windows if you're out, especially during the day. That's burglary primetime. So, put some facts together: unstable individual+ daytime= a bad scene. Watch anyone out at 9-10am careful.

DE

I agree with rule number 1.Never answer the door ever.

[edit on 25-10-2007 by dntwastetime]