Zoroastrianism - Abrahamic faiths all flawed?

Originally posted by DarkSide
It's another monotheistic religion. Show me why this Mazda guy is more likely to exist than Allah?

I never said he was more likely to exist.

Neither one is more likely to exist than the next.

But it is still better morally than Islam, it is simpler, less confusing, believes in strict equality, not the BS "gender equality" in Islam which claims men and women are equal under the eyes of Allah but have different "gender roles". Anyone who thinks that is true equality is delusional.

I never see Muslims fighting to support the "gender equality" ideal in Islam, but I've read articles about Zoroastrians stopping things that conflict with their laws on gender equality.

Originally posted by Kacen
Sometimes I think about that, then other times all the horrors in the world in Islam, the sexism, etc are channeled towards me. I've not known this to happen to anyone else in such a way. It makes my soul ache. Not just Islam, by the way, other things in the world.

I think what I want to do is positive.

Of course you do. But this world is a web of pain and death and misery and hate. Buddha figured that out. And he also thought he could figure a way to fix it, and starved himself close to death underneath a bodhi tree trying. In the end, however, he figured out that he was an idiot for starving himself over something he couldn't control. That's why the statues of him later in life show him fat and laughing. He figured it out. The more you immerse yourself in the pain of the world, the more pain you feel.

As a pagan, you should understand this intuitively. Like breeds like. Focusing on pain causes pain. Conflict begets conflict. The world doesn't change, but you can choose not to engage the negativity.

I'm not a Buddhist or a Pagan or a Christian or a Muslim. I'm not anything. I'm happy. I wish the best for others, but I understand that I can't change other people. I can only change myself.

Originally posted by Nohup
Of course you do. But this world is a web of pain and death and misery and hate. Buddha figured that out. And he also thought he could figure a way to fix it, and starved himself close to death underneath a bodhi tree trying. In the end, however, he figured out that he was an idiot for starving himself over something he couldn't control. That's why the statues of him later in life show him fat and laughing. He figured it out. The more you immerse yourself in the pain of the world, the more pain you feel.

Hmm, I should read more about him, I've neglected one of the most widely talked about philosophies in the world.

Maybe I should mix some of those teachings...regardless, you can make changes, small ones, but all our changes mixed need to add up and make a big change.

Originally posted by NohupAs a pagan, you should understand this intuitively. Like breeds like. Focusing on pain causes pain. Conflict begets conflict. The world doesn't change, but you can choose not to engage the negativity.

Sigh...your right, I need to really follow my faith...but even though I know why hate happens, why people think the way they do, it does not change the fact that...thats the fact.

...I'm drawing a blank within myself here.

Kacen, Nohup is giving you pretty sound advice. I know that sounds funny coming from someone who has an identification line of "Angry Thinker," but it really is better to let things go rather than harping on the negative. Believe me, I know.

reply to post by Kacen


Men and women do have different gender roles. Can't you see this?

Originally posted by depth om

Men and women do have different gender roles. Can't you see this?

In a very light sense only.

Women give birth to children. Men don't.

Doesn't mean a woman cannot have a job and a man cannot raise children at home.

Unless you think that is sinful against god?

[edit on 10/19/2007 by Kacen]

reply to post by Kacen


Sorry, Kacen, you've been misinformed. I agree somewhat with 1337cshacker that all religions have their share of mishaps. Zoroastrianism is no different. There is nothing specifically in Zoroastrianism that promotes gender equality any more than any other religion. Zoroastrians (males) are allowed by religion to have as many wives as they want, as well as any number of concubines. In fact, the concept of 'purdah' (segregation of men and women in all places, and the burqah thing- which I am vehemently against) was picked up by the muslims from the Persians.

About the militaristic tendencies....well, the 1 action of 1 king hardly makes up for all the rest. The reason that Zoroastrians were not so keen on proselytizing is BECAUSE they considered themselves the superior race. They fought and conquered most of the known world at their peak, but they didn't convert them, they enslaved them.

Any 'reforms' occurring now would be due to moving away from the religion, not closer to it, and probably has much to do with the fact that they are a minority now- no longer in power.

It's explicitly spelled out in Zoroastrian texts that there is gender equality.

Guess they didn't even follow their own religion, and they are such small in number now they don't have the room to do much anymore.

reply to post by Kacen


This is explicitly stated in the Quran also. But you disregard it because you say men and women are given gender roles.

The Zend-Avestas do not mention anything about a limit on the number of wives a man can have, but they do talk about wives. Take that to mean what you wish (I'm sure the Parsis of today would do the same).

[edit on 20-10-2007 by babloyi]

[edit on 20-10-2007 by babloyi]

Wow I don't think i would be calling in to question what is defined as gender equality seeing as they havea thing against women being near the household flame and her husband while she is menstrating, guess being equal is just about women working or not. how about the persecution of Homosexuals which this religon practices apparently equallity doesn't extend to sexual orintation. Not to mention that this religon doesn't really accept converts and that certain sects do so today is due mainly to the fact it is dying out.

reply to post by Jovi1


Yes, there is the thing with menstruation also. The woman is considered 'impure' and has to stay away from everyone else for the duration of it in a special room that is for that specific purpose.

It'd be useful to clearly define gender equality. If it means that both males and females are equal in the sight of God, than I don't think many religions would disagree with that.

As for women being allowed to work, as far as Islam goes, yes, it has assigned the task (unless there is some special circumstance) of providing for the family to the man. I believe the logic behind this is that considering that all things being equal, a man would be more athletic and so more suited to physical labour than a women. This does not mean that a women cannot work, it just means that the women are not bound to using the money they earn in wages for the providing of the family.

[edit on 20-10-2007 by babloyi]

I would just like to mention that islam is not "evil". Please read up before making decisions about other's beliefs. Also, the majority of the islamics you hear about on TV are RADICAL islamics. There is a big f'n difference. So lay off pointing fingers at who is wrong, and work on quantifying your evidence and global views of religion and it's misconceptions. *hugs* (i hope this does not sound mean.)

reply to post by 12SeVeN34


Seven, let me just say, as a Christian, that we don't even have to look at what is going on now to criticize the Abrahamic faiths... All we have to do is look at history... What other religions, other than the Abrahamic faiths have had "Holy" crusades, Inquisitions, Witch hunts, et cetera....

Answer: None....

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I'm not defending the warlike actions of some of the Abrahamic faiths, but that is not REALLY true, SpeakerofTruth.

I agree that we should question the motives (current and ancient) of the abrahamic faiths. But, we should not disregard the teachings of peace that exist in each of them. Also, judging christians because of catholics, or islamics because of radicals, can be detrimental to the case at hand. I was just saying that we could spend more time researching than bitching.

reply to post by babloyi


What other religions have caused the atrocities, of the same magnitude, that the Abrahamic religions have? Don't rattle off isolated incidences, like a Buddhist riot or something... I want examples of the same magnitude as the crusades, the inquisition or the Witch hunts....

reply to post by 12SeVeN34



That's probably true, to an extent, Seven... I do think that since 9/11, Christianity and Islam have dug themselves a hole, at least in the secularist circles, they will never re-emerge from.

Yep, yep..... It's just as I already knew it to be.

Very true. Our persistent use of assimilation and forced compliance tactics has existed for centuries. Crusades, Inquisition, Etc....

Maybe someday, the population will see that all of the major religions are based on prophets all seeking the same global love, but have been misquoted and misused throughout history as grounds for control. Only then can we begin to build a global infrastructure of collective love rather than lawful obedience.

Maybe people will see when the galactic alignments occur in the near future that Jesus may not be a miracle man on earth, but the miraculous SUN of GOD that provides us all with life. Maybe if we took all of the ancient and current religious systems and pulled out the relevant ideas, we'd all be worshipping our fellow man in daily affirmation rather than worship of our idolatrous (is that a word?) currency and keeping up with the jones's.

See, thats the problem I have with Christianity and Islam.

When taken to a decent literal extent, it becomes obnoxious and uncomfortable.

I try to respect all beliefs, but it's awkward when the believers of Christianity and Islam think I am going to burn forever for not being one of them no matter how good a person I am.

I mean, Hell doesn't exist, it's just their opinions that irritate me. I am not afraid, but it's still obnoxious and it subconsciously makes them think they have a moral(if you can call it that) high-ground.

Originally posted by 12SeVeN34

I suggest you look up the Baha'i faith.

en.wikipedia.org...'%C3%AD_Faith

www.bahai.org...

[edit on 10/25/2007 by Kacen]