NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable

wtc.nist.gov...

Highlights:

1) No WTC-7 steel was recovered or analyzed.

2) No unprocessed, intact floor trusses were recovered or analyzed.

3) No testing for explosives (or sulfidation or other residue of any kind) was performed.

4) Only 12 total core columns were recovered from WTC-1 & WTC-2 combined.

5) Of the recovered core pieces, none showed exposure to temperatures in excess of 250 C.

6) Of 170 examined areas on the perimeter column panels, only three showed exposure to temperatures in excess of 250 C and for one of these three forensic evidence indicated that the high temperature exposure occurred AFTER the collapse.

7) No recovered steel showed any evidence of exposure to temperatures above 600 C for any significant time.

People just wont' stop with this....

Pretty sure there are "MANY" threads for this topic and seems to me...
that this has been going in circles....why move away from the original thread on the twin towers.....every time the thread dies and a new one is created with the same old arguments over and over.

Over the time...say the last couple years there are many points people have pointed out and when it proves that the towers were taken down by the planes etc. people try to change the subject and or insult the "non-believers" it's getting old now with the tactic of the "believer" searching SO hard to find something that is NOT backed up with proof.

I know what I saw that day on TV like everyone else (esp. the ones who live in New York City)....and those people have posted and most of the time are ignored on these threads.....

Guess what I'm trying to say is.........I give up on this....no point going in circles again and again....

Remember that most people like myself are only going to put so much energy into a thread when they know the truth and just give up explaining what happen that day.

And like I have stated before.........I don't know one structural engineer in my line of work that believes the towers were taken down by other then what WE ALL SAW THAT DAY....

As always your Canadian Friend Sven.

Originally posted by svenglezz
Over the time...say the last couple years there are many points people have pointed out and when it proves that the towers were taken down by the planes etc. people try to change the subject and or insult the "non-believers" it's getting old now with the tactic of the "believer" searching SO hard to find something that is NOT backed up with proof.

I have not seen any actual evidence or official reports from the primary investigators that state what planes hit the towers and how the towers collapsed.

People that beleive the official story keep talking about knowing what happened that day, but can never come up with any hard, physical evidence or official reports to back it up.

See my point.............same old same old I could have guess the next response....lol

NOT ONE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER in my line of work believes other then the original story.....NOT ONE..... to me that's proof.....not to mention my experience in the construction industry....but what do I know

And griff doesn't count' cause I tried to get proof he's a Civil Engineer with no proof given.......I could come on here to and pretend to be a Doctor when I'm not.

Your Canadian Friend Sven

Argue all you want, these are 2 FACTS and I dare someone to prove them any other way.

1. No building has EVER fell at free fall speeds into it's own footprint in the history of Earth except by controlled demo.

2. 3 buildings did just that in 1 day. You are told this is normal by an administration that has been PROVEN to lie over and again.

If you ask me, you don't deserved to be saved until you open your #in eyes.
Those victims are turning in their graves at your ignorance while their murders go free and I don't mean the highjackers who have been proven to be ALIVE TODAY. What else do you need?

[edit on 20-10-2007 by dark_matter06]

See same old same old........

If you want a response from me.....forget it..........go read the original thread on this topic...........sick and tired of repeating myself....go find the answers to your questions in the threads....simple.

But from what you asked tells me a lot.

Your Canadian Friend Sven

Originally posted by svenglezz
See same old same old........

Yes, sounds like same ole, same ole from the people that believe the official story. They talk about no one posting evidence but can never post any evidence themselves.

Where is your evidence to prove us wrong?

As I said before go read through the original posts on this topic......

You will see people like me do post evidence...tired to re-post every couple weeks same old argument.

Plus pretty sure my 25 years in construction is some proof I know a little about
what happened....not to mention all the structural engineers I know and NOT one believes the crazy theories of TNT etc. etc.

And yes I know your gon'a trash me know for stating the 25 years....lol

would not be the first time on these threads,

Your Canadian Friend Sven

Originally posted by svenglezz
Plus pretty sure my 25 years in construction is some proof I know a little aboutwhat happened....not to mention all the structural engineers I know and NOT one believes the crazy theories of TNT etc. etc .

So does your 25 years over rule NIST and FEMA?

Did all those structural engineers you speak have access to the crime scenes and the evidence?

Are you saying the firechiefs, firemen, and first responders are all wrong or lieing about what they saw?


[edit on 20-10-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Oh i see y'r one of those people put "words" (and assume) in other peoples mouths.........

GO READ for yourself the TRUTH what happened that day.

I'm not saying anything more then what I said.........I do have experience in this line of work nothing more nothing less.....

So go educate yourself on this topic........I have been here reading and discussing for years this topic and same old tactics like the one you are using

Got some real proof then what's already been said on the original post on this topic ....if not.....your just repeating yourself.

Your Canadian Friend Sven

"GO READ for yourself the TRUTH what happened that day. "

Yeah, it's called the 911 commission report, lol. I'm sorry but I have to side with science and my own two eyes before I believe the man that made it possible for AT&T to record all my phone calls and messages. But that's just me.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


The computer models are entirely redundant anyway. We already have NIST's own real-world, scale physical models that disprove the spontaneous collapse theory.


CASE CLOSED!

Originally posted by svenglezz
GO READ for yourself the TRUTH what happened that day.

I have read what the truth from the people and investigators on the scene.

I would rather beleive them then someone who would rather believe what the see on TV then do research to find out the truth.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by seanm
Imagine that Griff claims we need the construction documents before a forensic investigation can determine anything.

Talk about "brick walls!"

Griff, I'd recommend educating yourself before posting.

Just one thing before I leave you to your delusions. What forensic investigation? Give me the proof of that forensic investigation. Who tested the steel for anything? As far as I know FEMA (I think) were the only ones who tested the steel for anything other than temperature. NIST even admits it. So, I suggest educating yourself before you start telling others to.

Good day to you and I'm done.

p.s. FEMA found some pretty interesting things about the steel but no one decided to test it anymore. That makes sense.

17 October 2001
Engineering Forensics of Collapse

by Michael J. Crosbie

Behind the slowly shrinking heaps of rubble in lower Manhattan and Arlington, Virginia, a phalanx of forensic engineers, supported by a variety of research grants, is working against the flow of debris as it is carted off to recycling sites and landfills, searching for clues about how three of the largest U.S. buildings were mortally wounded.

Twisted steel, melted insulation, tangled rebar, shards of aircraft fuselage — these artifacts and more might begin to suggest what happened on September 11, 2001 that brought down several buildings at New York's World Trade Center, and left a gruesome gash in the side of the Pentagon.

Research Groups Take Action

The forensic activities are being propelled by research grants from the National Science Foundation, the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), the American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC), and other private and public agencies that have hired engineers and architects to help figure out how the buildings failed.

continued at www.architectureweek.com...

Too bad you're not sticking around to be debunked some more, Griff. It sure is fun for me!

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by seanm
It's actually very funny given the numerous public comment hearings and the fact that the evidence, methodologies, conclusions are open to the entire world, including every structural engineer, forensic scientist, and architect in the world.

You guys never bother to think before writing.

I know I promised myself but. Get me this evidence and such you claim. I'll send you my address in a U2U even, if you claim to have access to such evidence.

I am a structural engineer. I should have access to the construction documents right? Well, it's time to "put up or shut up" so they say.

You are spreading lies in this forum and I actually think it calls for a post ban at least.

Perhaps you should go to wtc.nist.gov... and tell us who does not have access to these documents as you claim, Griff. That should be fun!

Oh, yes, public comment.

Process for Submitting Comments on Draft Reports on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster—The comment period closed on Aug. 4, 2005.

Background

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has released a total of 43 draft reports documenting the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster. These reports include the draft summary report on the Investigation of the WTC Towers, 8 project reports, and 34 supporting technical topic reports. Fifteen reports, including three project reports, were released on April 5, 2005.

These reports are being issued in draft form with a six-week period for public comment. Public comments will be accepted during the period commencing June 23rd and ending at 5 p.m. EDT on August 4th.

The public is welcome to comment on any of the 43 draft reports issued by NIST, totaling about 10,000 pages. NIST especially encourages public comment on the approximately 200-page draft summary report, which contains the principal findings and recommendations for changes to codes, standards, and practices. NIST will consider all comments received from the public on the 43 draft reports before they are issued in final form.

To ensure that your comments are properly considered, it is important that they be submitted in the appropriate format to facilitate review and disposition by the report authors. NIST will prepare a public summary of the comments received and their disposition in September when the final report is issued.

Submittal of Comments

Comments submitted should be specific to the maximum extent possible: they should clearly state the issue, location (report number, page number, paragraph or sentence), provide a short reason for any suggested change, and provide suggested language for the requested revision. NIST cannot guarantee consideration of comments not submitted in this format.

Comments also may be submitted by e-mail to [email protected], by fax to 301-975-6122, or by mail to:

WTC Technical Information Repository
Attention: Mr. Stephen Cauffman
National Institute of Standards and Technology
Stop 8610
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8610

Comments not submitted through the web site should contain the following information:

Name: (Optional)
Affiliation: (Optional)
Contact: Phone number or e-mail address where you can be contacted in case of questions. (Optional)
Report Number: (e.g., NCSTAR 1-1)
Page Number:
Paragraph/Sentence: (e.g., paragraph 2/sentences 2-4)
Comment:
Reason for Comment:
Suggestion for Revision:

All comments must be received by NIST by 5 p.m. EDT on August 4, 2005. Comments received after this time will not be considered.

wtc.nist.gov...

Really, I am sorry to see you go!

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
wtc.nist.gov...

Highlights:

1) No WTC-7 steel was recovered or analyzed.

2) No unprocessed, intact floor trusses were recovered or analyzed.

3) No testing for explosives (or sulfidation or other residue of any kind) was performed.

4) Only 12 total core columns were recovered from WTC-1 & WTC-2 combined.

5) Of the recovered core pieces, none showed exposure to temperatures in excess of 250 C.

6) Of 170 examined areas on the perimeter column panels, only three showed exposure to temperatures in excess of 250 C and for one of these three forensic evidence indicated that the high temperature exposure occurred AFTER the collapse.

7) No recovered steel showed any evidence of exposure to temperatures above 600 C for any significant time.

Where did you say there is evidence of explosives, Ultima1?

I can't find the link anywhere.

More reading for 9/11 Truthers:

www.americanrecycler.com...

reply to post by seanm


Nothing you have presented is what Griff is asking for. You are spreading vile and odious lies!! Why don't you show us where exactly these contruction documents are contained in this humongous NIST report?! Is it because you can't?!?!

First, you point to a thousands page long NIST report and claim "all the models and the math is in there." Then you turn around and claim that it's impossible to model the collapse, the one that you just claimed had been modeled 'somewhere' in the NIST report.

A clinical psychologist looking at your comments could diagnose you as suffering from Pathological Delusions based on the way you constantly contradict yourself and somehow simultaneously hold two contradictory beliefs. Next, they would recommend administering a cocktail of strong Antipsychotic Medications, such as; Halidol, Thorazine, Chlorprothixene, and Quetiapine.

If you can't back up what you say, don't say it! Quit arguing just for the sake of arguing, it saves you the need to constantly contradict yourself.

Originally posted by seanm
Where did you say there is evidence of explosives, Ultima1?

I can't find the link anywhere.

Maybe you cannot find the link becasue i never stated anything about explosives. Do you have to put words in peoples mouths because you cannot prove the official story?

Please try to read post before posting.

reply to post by Griff


A degree in engineering? If this is true, then how is it you aren't aware of the fact that the towers didn't rely on columns but were instead supported by an steel exoskeleton? The only "columns" were the central ones necessary for the elevators. The floor and ceiling trusses held the exoskeleton together. Were you also unaware of the massive counterweight in the roofs of the towers? Have you ever taken into consideration that ductwork in the building would transer the pressure created by the impact and blow out windows in other parts of the building with such force that they would appear to explode? I have trusted friends who are engineers. They have degrees and work in the field. We have had many talks about 9/11 and they were able to clearly explain how the planes brought the buildings down. The History Channel did a very clear and informative program on how the towers fell. While I personally do not have such a degree, I do possess a very high IQ and am capable of understanding the processes that felled the towers.